Damien and Jessica Zouaoui – Oakwell Beer Spa – They Sold Everything, Traveled the World, and Built a Million-Dollar Beer Spa Franchise

so as soon as we opened our booking system,

we had two and a half bookings per minute for the first 24 hours.

Our servers crashed, the website crashed,

we had so much traffic.

I had always wanted to flip a coin to determine the next destination,

just like you know, being spontaneous about it.

And so we decided, okay, let's flip a coin.

Heads we go to Eastern Europe,

tails we go to China. And so we ended up flipping the coin,

it landed on heads. So Eastern Europe.

first stop was Poland. And that's where we discovered the idea of the beer spa,

Zakopane, Poland.

Hey there and welcome to From the Ground Up Show,

the show where we encourage and inspire the next generation of free thinking leaders

by telling the stories of those that have been there,

done that, and are still getting it done.

Building a life that they love with their hearts,

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So today is gonna be a fun one for me.

~ I have a couple that I have admired from afar for quite some time joining us.

Damien and Jessica Zowie.

I'm sorry, guys, can you help me with the last name there?

That's a good shortcut. ~ Zhuwa Wee.

Zuwai. Okay.

Damien and Jessica are the husband and wife founders of Oakwell Beer Spa,

one of the most unique hospitality concepts in America.

After leaving corporate careers in New York City,

they sold their belongings and traveled through twenty-five countries over

14 months, set out to find an innovative business idea they could build together.

Their search eventually led them to a beer spa in Poland.

inspiring them to create a new category that combines wellness,

hospitality, and craft beer culture.

Since opening in Denver in 2021,

Oakwell has grown into an award-winning business,

expanded into multiple locations,

and begun franchising nationwide.

Their story is one of entrepreneurship,

calculated risk taking, resilience,

and turning an unconventional idea into a scalable business.

So ~ guys, I'm so excited to hear all about your business,

where this idea came from, and the adventure you guys have had building what appears

to be just an incredible business.

But before we dive into that, we like to learn a little bit about our guests.

And so we go clear back to the beginning.

do you guys want to each take a moment and tell us a little bit about your childhood

growing up ~ and then maybe how you guys met?

Yeah. Absolutely. No, stopped right.

Okay, I'll start. so I'm originally from Orlando,

Florida. ~ I grew up in a I'd say upper middle class family,

you know, both had two working parents.

My mom was in the IT field. My dad tried to be an entrepreneur several times,

never really stuck with anything that much.

But my mom was definitely the the breadwinner in the family.

She was working corporate jobs,

~

since she was in her early twenties because back then you know people

had children really young and had a mortgage really young so you know typical family

but really early on I had this entrepreneurial bug.

And I remember getting a book when I was in elementary school about,

you know, starting a small business.

And so I decided to create a lemonade stand that wasn't going to

be just any lemonade stand. It was going to be the best in the neighborhood.

And so

you know, I made business cards.

I looked at, you know, the traffic flow on the on the street coming into

our neighborhood and how to attract people from the main road and get them in.

And and mind you, I was in like maybe fourth or fifth grade at the time.

~ I put up flags directing people how to get to our driveway.

so really I've I've always grown up ~ loving figuring things out,

problem solving, inventing things.

~ so I ended up going to college at Florida State University.

~ I studied neuroscience. At the time,

my plan was to ~ be a research professor.

I, you know, had a dream of winning a Nobel Prize.

I really wanted to just study neuroscience,

~ but I ended up not getting into the specific PhD program that I applied to.

So I decided to take some time off ~ and join the corporate world.

And then my plan was to to reapply for the PhD program.

But I ended up really loving the job.

I I joined an IT ~ staffing agency,

started out as a recruiter, worked my way up into sales and then into management.

and really I I learned so much,

you know. I was at the time in my early 20s and I was ~ interacting with these

IT directors of Fortune 500 companies that,

you know, were way older than me,

like way more business savvy than me,

but it really allowed me to cut my teeth in the corporate world and learn

all the the lingo, the acronyms,

the org structure, ~ and gave me a lot of great knowledge that I've then carried

forth to to Oakwell Beer Spa today.

but it was after being with that company for four years,

they offered me a role in New York City.

So at this time I had only lived in Florida.

~ they offered me a year-long contract in New York City to come get that office

in shape. It was the worst performing in the country.

so I said, Hey, I've never been to New York before,

but I'm in my 20s, and this sounds like a great opportunity.

and about two weeks into living in New York City is when I met Damien.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

okay, my turn. So my name is Damien.

I was born in France. grew up in France.

so I was born in Paris, but grew up in the southwest of France,

very close to Bordeaux. My childhood was very close to my ~ brother.

He's ~

He's as well an entrepreneur on his own.

I grew up in a family that was creating their own business,

mainly successful or not. That's a very different story.

But ~ I'd say that the whole environment was to be a self-starter and ambitious,

very focused on the education.

We I grew up in a way in in an environment where ~ school.

was extremely important that that if you're not bringing back straight A's,

we have a different rating in in Europe and France.

it's you can have a you can you can spend a bad evening or have a weekend

can not be fun. so anyway, focus on ~ the education.

And ~ then we moved back to Paris when I was a teenager.

And ~ you know Paris is a very international city.

and I always knew since day one that I wanted to either be a f a flight ~

a pilot or I wanted to sell oil or water.

I don't know why, such a two important commodities,

but I wanted to do that. So ~ with that in mind,

unfortunately pilot wasn't an option for multiple reasons,

mainly economic. and I want to get into the army.

so I had to make a choice and the choice was to ~ do a business school.

A business call over a five year spirit that will really help me

to understand what I want to do and what I want to sell and if I really still want

to sell water and oil. which of course,

you know, when when you're young at an age you you have dreams,

you you you you're clueless, but business call was ~ very helpful for me

to put off my

thought process on how to become my own boss more informed in the future

and this started with first of all focusing on learning a different language

in those countries in in Europe.

There's a lot of countries that translate everything or even have

a very strong language. France is one of them.

And the English, you can learn English at school,

but this is not enough. So

I had to self-teach myself English in order to really open myself new doors.

so of course with the support of my business school and the curriculum

at the label there, but as well being able to ~ open yourself doors by

~ you know getting scholarship and and studying in different countries.

Europe is a village. ~ there's so many different programs.

so Denmark was one of those countries,

Finland was one of those countries,

Vietnam.

Australia and ~ you know I started the the least the the

I think the last person at a classroom in year one and by year five I

was the best non-native English speaker in my school,

which was for me incredible. now to that point learning English has led

me to ~ meet someone in Paris at the time he became my motor he's

He's an American businessman, very successful.

He sold his business. Bumped him in a in a bar during a soccer game.

~ because we love our soccer. It's it's it's a it's a religion there.

And ~ and from that moment he kind of like mentored me.

This is something ~ very popular in America,

but there is no such a mentorship mindset in France,

culturally. So he he kind of like took me under his wing and

and and ~ help me to to create myself opportunities in the

US by opening his company to me as almost like the first ever

and the last intern that went there for about six months ~ in

a specific industry was in the travel industry and from that moment ~ I knew that

~ I wanted to create my own business.

I had to first make mistakes, learn with the money of others,

other companies, right? and and then hopefully one day made the big jump.

came in America in the US in 2013 for the first time,

then spent my time between the UN in North America,

between the US, the Caribbean and Mexico because I was working

in the trouble industry. And then ~ after that ~ episode,

that chapter, I made my way to New York City on my own.

helping a small boutique travel company that was focusing

on creating experiences in New York City.

~ and I had to learn from scratch everything.

I had no budget. fun fact I think my my boss took a line of credit to sponsor

me and take a bet on me in order to afford me.

Not that I was expensive, it's just I think I was a last chance for

her before she closed her business.

and but and met Jess in New York City very quickly after I started as well.

and ~ and meeting Jess has definitely been life-changing personally,

professionally, and has helped as well to you know build confidence

at creating your own business and as well ~ build confidence on ~ making sure that

when you create something you have a positive impact on others.

~ I can spend hours talking about myself,

it's not the point, but that's who I am in just a minute or two.

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Well, I know you guys both mentioned a value in education.

that that was a a big thing to your families,

Jess. You talked about pursuing a PhD.

i have your views of education shifted at all?

Do you still feel a traditional education is as important today as it was then?

That's a great question. I don't think school is valuable for

the information that they teach you necessarily.

So, you know, I don't think knowing trigonometry is something that's going

to value most people in a professional career or biology,

right? But I think what school does teach you is the commitment,

is having a schedule, having to

~ you know, wake up, study, go to class,

be somewhere at a certain time.

~ it's more the process of learning than it is the actual content that

you learn in school. I do think there are some career paths where

an education is absolutely necessary if you want to be a doctor,

a lawyer. There's some things that are quite niche and specific.

But, you know, we hear it all the time,

entrepreneurs and business owners in specific that never went to school and that,

you know, went to the school of hard knocks or whatever you want to call it.

I think that can be just as valuable as long as you have something early

on that teaches you, you know,

to be responsible for yourself,

to show up, to work hard and to be committed to something,

whether it's in a formal school environment.

Or not, that depends. but I definitely don't think it's as necessary as

it used to be, like our parents' generation.

That's the first thing when you're getting hired that people used to look

at was what degree do you have?

What school did you go to? ~ but especially,

you know, coming from a recruiting background,

that has become less and less important.

Nowadays people look more at your work ethic.

~ and look at your experience rather than the degree that you got or

the school that you went to. Do you agree?

Yeah, I mean I I I think it really depends on the countries and

and continent you are. You know,

there's there's countries where it's very crucial to still as of today,

if you don't have a bachelor's degree or master degree,

you're not gonna get this job just because there's zillions of people

who have committed to

getting a specific diploma. I think school gives you a baggage,

a luggage full of foundations.

Those foundations are very important,

as you mentioned. They teach you curiosity,

it teaches you resilience, it teach you commitment,

which often you don't get an you don't get anywhere else.

you know, it can be a sports class where your coach asks you to

run twenty minutes nonstop, you know,

and you want to do it, but the coach is the coach and the teacher are here to

train you on that. of course it depends.

You have you can have a a different level of ~ maturity at that time

and you might not know that you don't want that,

but it is important. So overall,

you know, I think school would always be here,

should always be here. We're not gonna get political.

There's a lot of things to improve at school,

maybe shifting priorities today,

taking example of

AI and all of those tools that are available to you.

But you know, back in the days when the computers went out and we were at school,

~ the computers wasn't here to help you to cheat on it to look

at the encyclopedia in a matter of just a few seconds.

I think it it it's it was a tool to help us to go deeper into our research

and maybe ask questions that the teacher couldn't answer at the same time because

they were not in a classroom with you.

Well, today, I think it's a

the the the most important thing is to go to school and have

the school teaching teaching you how to use those tools available to

and help with that critical mindset.

and I think secondly school should maybe think as well of teaching you some sorts

of topics that helps you in real life.

It can be ~ financial literacy,

it can be

you know, ~ the simple equation of do not spend more than what you win.

Because if you spend more than what you win earn,

things gonna go wrong y and you only have five or ten chances to make it right.

So start now, right? All of those things I think are still very important

and hopefully a few teachers I'm sure ~ in this country are maybe

~ drafting away from the typical program curriculum.

and and teach you those those things.

But school are very important and I think this is something we should teach

our kids to stick to it, to commit to it.

Because what else do you have to do between five years old and 16

or 13 years old? In honesty. I think going to school and and and creating

as all those friendships, those friendships that will hopefully last forever that

really

Help help you to create your own identity.

You know, you make a lot of mistakes to meet a lot of people in your life,

and the only chance you have to make mistakes and learn from it is

to do that between five years old or until you're 18.

Because at 18, then you go to university,

you make friends, but it's a very different path because you travel from Colorado,

maybe to New York State to study.

And then after that you go to end of re you get a job that's the typical path,

right? And you then start to realize my gosh,

I'm paying tax, I have a job, and my disposable income is now to pay back

my loan or have fun. So make those mistakes,

go to school, commit to it, show you prove to yourself that you can ~ last

as long as possible to school.

Of course.

If you're an athlete, if you're the best chef in the world,

if you're the best baker in the world,

I think you should split your time between fifty-fifty.

Make sure you leverage your skills where you're really good at

to practice and improve yourself while making sure that you back yourself

up with the right foundations to understand how mathematics,

geometry, go algorithm, all of that works in order to to ~

have a a critical ~ mindset and way of ~ seeing things and approaching things

in life for the future.

Sounds good. Yeah, I can agree with most of that and appreciate that stance.

So you guys brought us up through you both got to New York and met each other

~ after e each of you had only been there a short time.

Did did you remain in New York long after you had met?

Yeah, back two years. Yeah. So it's quite funny.

We we both moved to New York City within a few weeks of each other.

Obviously, we didn't know each other at the time.

~ and we met on a dating app.

We met on Bumble, which is kind of a fun tidbit that we don't tell many people.

but at the time, you know, dating apps were at their in their prime.

we both didn't know many people when we moved to New York City.

and really it was the we hit it off instantly.

I mean, from the time that we first met,

we became pretty much inseparable.

and you know, we we continued working our jobs.

I was just there for a year-long contract,

after which the deal was okay,

you can, you know, my company said they they would allow me to stay

in New York after the year or they would move me back to Florida if I wanted to.

~ so I knew I had that predefined time,

but

Really quickly, Damien and I knew we wanted to open a business together.

We're both very entrepreneurial.

We have backgrounds that are very complementary to each other.

So Damien is the sales and marketing guy.

He's very extroverted. ~ he's great with tech.

And then I'm on the other side,

more behind the scenes. I love analytics,

I love HR, legal, finance.

so we knew that we have really had all of the bases covered and that we

had o both always dreamed of owning our own businesses.

Previously we thought we would do it,

you know, on our own. but then after meeting,

you know, really quickly we we knew we wanted to open a business together.

So it was just a matter of figuring out what that was.

but at the time we were still working our our corporate job.

So we'd get off of work, we'd go to the nearby wine bar or beer garden,

we'd have a pint or a glass, and we'd brainstorm business ideas.

You know, we're really passionate about hospitality,

but we knew we didn't want to do a restaurant,

we didn't want to do a coffee shop.

I had grown up working in restaurants all through high school,

you know, and college. So I I knew I didn't want to go into that industry

in specific. but Damien, you know,

being from Europe and I was fortunate enough to travel internationally

at a young age, we started talking about,

you know, there's a lot of interesting things that exist out in the world that just

haven't necessarily been brought to the United States yet.

So we thought of the idea of, hey,

what if we travel?

~ now while we're still young,

we don't have kids, we don't have a mortgage.

Yes, we have our corporate jobs,

but at the end of the day, you know,

what's the worst that could happen?

We can always get a job. Again,

we feel like we're, you know, fairly employable people.

And so if we're gonna take a risk,

now is the time to do it. Let's go and and travel the world and

and find the concepts that we really identify with and that we also think

we could scale in the United States.

because we also were were thinking pretty big together.

Like we didn't want to be a mom and pop business owner for our whole lives.

We knew we wanted to find something that we could scale and grow into

a national brand. So ~ we took about a year of,

you know, planning and plotting our escape from the corporate world

in the month after getting married.

we pulled the trigger and we we quit our jobs at the same time.

That's awesome. And ~ yeah, it's hard to go wrong when your business partner

is the little girl that analyzed traffic patterns when setting

up her lemonade stand. ~

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so ~ this ~ wild fourteen month trip around the world,

did did you guys set out with kind of that time frame or that location in mind,

or did you just kind of freely work your way around and h how did

you prepare for that? did

Did it take some planning and funding that or ~ what did that look like?

Yeah, it's quite funny, you know,

~ I'm a little bit more of a a planner,

I think. And so for me, the idea of just like quitting our jobs

and having this open-ended trip of not knowing how long it was gonna take

or where we were going was was a little frightening.

so my plan at first was okay, we can like let's just book our main flights like

to each continent every you know few months.

but Damian was like, no, like how how do you know that you're

not gonna get somewhere and want to go somewhere else or you really love

it and want to stay longer? So he's like,

we're just gonna buy a one-way ticket at a time.

Like, let's just plan the first place.

Like we have nowhere to be, no one to report to.

So why plan this all out? You're gonna,

you know, put us in a box. We need more freedom.

And so he he talked me into the idea of just okay,

we figure out where is the first place that we're gonna go,

which ended up being.

Moscow, not not so much that we thought we'd find a business there,

but you know, it was just an interesting place to stop.

so we just bought a one-way ticket with no real plan for where we would

go after that. but during that year that we were still in our corporate jobs,

there was some planning. You know,

we saved as much as we could from our corporate jobs,

but at the end of the day, we're still living in New York City,

so our expenses were high.

so one of the biggest things though,

where we got turned on to the idea of credit card points.

And fortunately, I was in a role where I was taking a lot of people

out to happy hours and to dinners through my job,

and they would allow me to just then submit an expense report for reimbursement.

So I strategically signed up with credit cards that I could get,

you know, earn high points for dining and these different types of expenditures.

So we ended up saving close to one million chase points over that year that

we then used to fund our travels.

So almost all of our flights were completely paid for with points.

of our hotels were as well. ~ but I did want to point out this was

not a a luxury travel experience.

We were truly backpacking, staying in shared rooms and hostels.

you know, staying this one hotel I remember on the beach in Thailand

had cockroaches everywhere, but it was seven dollars a night.

We ended up checking out at like 4 a.m.

because I'm I'm just like I hate cockroaches.

and so we had to sleep with the lights on and we're like on top

of the covers because there were just bugs crawling around everywhere.

So you know once you make the big flights like from the US to Europe

or over to Asia, travel within specific countries.

is pretty affordable. and thankfully we were able to get those long haul flights

covered with the credit card points.

Okay. Interesting. And so you you said you started with Moscow,

you mentioned ~ Thailand. I know you wound up in Poland.

how did you decide where to go?

I mean w when you're in Moscow and you feel like you've seen Moscow,

where do you go next?

Yeah, this the there was a couple of things that we wanted to do from

a personal perspective during this business travel.

So I had always really wanted to get my yoga teacher certification,

and naturally that should be done in India,

right? So ~ we ended up going to India for a month to ~

Naturally.

the birthplace of Ashtanga yoga,

which was the style of yoga that I practiced,

and so you know ~

Moscow to India was like kind of next door-ish.

So that was the the next place that we went.

Damian had his scuba diving certification already,

but that's something that I wanted as well.

And so again, naturally you go to Kotao,

Thailand to get your scuba diving certification.

And so but you know, there's a few things like that.

We had a few weddings of friends and family that made us travel

in very like nonsense directions.

We were in Asia, we went to

Australia and then back to Asia and then to France for another wedding

and then to so you know it was not in any sort of linear fashion.

but one of my favorite stories is when we were in ~ was it Vietnam

or Thailand with the coin? ~ Thailand.

In Thailand. I had always wanted to flip a coin to determine the next destination,

just like you know, being spontaneous about it.

And so we decided, okay, let's flip a coin.

Heads we go to Eastern Europe,

tails we go to China. And so we ended up flipping the coin,

it landed on heads. So Eastern Europe.

first stop was Poland. And that's where we discovered the idea of the beer spa,

Zakopane, Poland. But it's so funny because if we would have had the coin flip

in the other direction on China,

which we did end up going to China.

~ but we probably would have skipped Eastern Europe and we likely would have never

discovered the idea of a beer spell,

which is what we've we've built our whole business around now.

So it's quite funny in hindsight how that one coin flip really like decided

the the fate of, you know, quite a few years of our lives and and what we're still

living today.

That's incredible. What a great story and what a great experience.

so when you visit this beer spa in Poland,

when you guys got there and and kind of saw that idea,

did you know right away that was the idea you were gonna walk away with

or was there more exploring after that?

No, I mean I I think well first of all ~ for the context,

it was a rainy day in the middle of the summer in June ~ in Poland.

So we just got here, it's middle of the it's it's a mountainous region.

And I was like, okay, maybe we go for a hike or we get we go get out

and get some fresh air, but it was raining,

so we're like, ~ well what what can be what can we do?

you know not another bar and sit and have a beer.

It was like let's do something fun.

So just goes on TripAdvisor and and and look at things to do and one

of those things to do is a Biospa.

So it was like ~ that's very intriguing.

So let's let's let's go and and try to get in.

And ~ three minutes later we we were checking in.

it's very rustic, it's very Bohemian,

it's

It's it's very different than what you would think.

Actually, there is no expectations ~ to have from a beer spot.

You you always question yourself,

what is this? and ~ yeah we we get in,

we ~ we get into this tiny little room,

there's a plastic shower, ~ there is this tiny little tub,

there's a bed of hay, ~ there's a fridge next to you,

and ~ and you get access to that room for

about an hour I think an hour and thirty minutes and ~ and you can drink

as much beer as you want you can lay on the bed of hay between ~ your shower

and the soak and ~ and it was it was ~ it was very intriguing but

the really the ~ moment was when we actually get into the tub there's

no bubblers it's very quiet it's a tiny little small tub that we

we fit together because we're we're

pretty ~ I guess short and small.

and I fell asleep about in in about three minutes.

It was the most relaxing experience I ever had.

It was I wasn't ~ haven't I just I might have sip of a little bit

of beer but nothing like crazy and ~ and when I was asleep just starting

to really go big and strong and this is this is I think this can be done,

this can be done.

think we should do this, we should bring this back.

I think this is the way. This is we should do that.

And ~ she splashed me. I wake up a little and say,

all right, I think we should do this.

I said, what do you mean we should do this?

Well we should bring the Beerspa back to the US and make it happen.

I said okay well you know we're very analytical so I had to talk to her about

~ you know, the importance of a business model,

financial model, marketing model.

~ nothing too crazy, but something just to help us to put your ideas into paper.

Because it's such a unique business ID.

And yeah, and since then, since this time,

we promised ourselves to try as many

spa concepts in Eastern Europe and all around the world.

So we started to

Of course, do all of the beer spas out there.

There's multiple one, they're very popular,

they're very party oriented. are they clean enough?

I don't know. ~ this is on them,

but it is those are very different according to countries you go.

There's Germany, Austria, there is ~ there's Czech Republic,

Poland, there's Hungary. all of those countries have a very developed bathing

culture, but still

Beer spas are very popular but still quite unique on their own.

We did ~ those ~ wine spas in south of France,

north of Spain. We did those talasotherapy on the Atlantic coast of

of France and south of France,

where you pretty much leverage seawater and create those hydrotherapy circuits

for your own well-being. Seawater has a lot of benefits for you.

we did those ~

German spaz that often people don't mind to be naked while drinking a beer

in front of you. we went to Japan and South Korea where we tried

the Hansen Gingiband, all of those are multi-level building with ziggans

of s ~ of sauna, steam room, bath.

and you know, above all of that,

what we really realize is

that a day spa is a place to reconnect a social place

in most of those countries. There is obviously a strong spa etiquette.

You know, some countries you you cannot talk in the sauna and some countries

no you can talk in the sauna. You can can never drink vodka in Finland when

I was in Finland. People were drinking vodka in the sauna before going

to jump in the lake or in the cold bath.

You know, so overall

The spectacle is different. It is a social place.

People go to the day spot to reconnect to each other.

It can be a family time where in Japan you you see that whole family,

grandparents, parents, kids, grandkids are all going together for a few hours

on a Sunday, a Saturday, and what they do is they spend quality time together

and relaxing, but as well meeting in that in the middle of all of that

is a cantina where

You can buy a beer, slurper both noodle,

and ~ wellness, well-being goes hands to hands with with all of that social aspect

or that hospitality aspect. ~ you know,

when you go back to the US, I think the moment was as entrepreneurs is

how do you can you really land in the market where you don't try to disrupt

it but you shake it up. ~ there's already a strong

~ following on day space, but that's often targeted towards women more than

anything. ~ it is often stuck in a past,

very very transaction based,

you know, and focused and targeted towards a specific audience.

And Jessica and I really wanted to shape this up and and make it more

fun and make it more

approachable, less intimidating,

and and mainly very and most importantly,

being able to attract any type of audience.

It can be women, it can be men.

this this was very important to us ~ with a big sense of hospitality.

You know, when you go to a day spa this is very easy.

You need to live relaxed, happy,

and ~ often you need to feel during experts,

you need to feel safe, it needs to be clean.

It needs to be pleasant, it needs to smell good,

and ~ we've worked very hard on on on that.

And all of that created that ~ a moment for us.

it sounds like even more than shaking it up.

You guys are almost creating a a whole new industry here that you know,

at least my very limited experience,

my wife probably knows more. just what you said,

the the spa experience here in the US.

You you get your treatments lined out,

you schedule your massage or whatever,

and you probably have some time to relax in the spa,

but it it's very transactional,

it's very focused. You have specific things that you're doing.

And it sounds like you guys have a little bit different view of wellness

as a whole to incorporate relaxation and even social engagement and bringing

in that that social aspect of wellness.

Is that an accurate statement?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know,

in in in in some countries, ~ you know,

Spain, in France or in Italy, you know,

taking a seat to enjoy a glass of wine and watching people walking in

the street or even you know after a long day could be considered as wellness.

Of course it might not be advice from your physician,

but you know, it it's it's a time where you sit down and reconnect with someone else

or your your inner self.

And we knew that in the US, like this is something that people want.

I I've been going to spots since I was young with my mom,

with my sister, and you go for,

you know, a mother or daughter experience for Mother's Day,

for example, or later on you go with a partner for a couple's massage,

and you were going with someone intending it intending for it to be this.

you know, moment of reconnection and socialization and spending time together.

But the spaws aren't very conducive to that.

You get your couples massage, you're face down on a table in the same room.

And then typically all of the amenities,

the saunas, the tubs, etc., are in gender separated areas.

Or if there are common areas, it's really quiet,

right? Like there's maybe some rainforest sounds going on in the background.

Some people are there by themselves reading a book and like if you're talking with

someone, everyone can hear every word that you're saying.

I mean, I've been one of those people that's reading a book and

you see a bachelorette party that's in the hot tub and they're

all just like laughing and having a good time and you're like,

okay, I'm trying to relax here.

So then there's often like con conflicting motivations.

Some people are there to socialize,

some people are there to have a solo meditative experience.

and then just the environments are not conducive to socializing,

the the background music, the seating,

the gender separation of the areas.

but yet we still continue to spend all this money in the United States going

for couples massages and going for girls' days at the spa.

but there's never really an appropriate environment for that.

And so, you know, we felt like if we do this right,

we we can create the

privacy that Americans need by having these private spa suites where you're just

there with your group. So you're not interrupting the group that's

in the private spa suite next door that may be there for a very different reason.

They're one group's there to socialize,

the next one's there to you know really relax after a stressful week.

And both people can have their own experiences without interrupting each other.

But then you create this communal space,

this tap room, which is meant for socialization.

There the music is upbeat. We play Vassa Nova,

we play French pop, we play RB,

you know, all different kinds of upbeat music.

You know, the lighting, the scent,

everything is really set up to more reflect a boutique hotel lobby than

it is a spa waiting area or a spa relaxation area.

~ and we found that, you know,

people are coming time and time again for their monthly date night

to celebrate birthdays, to celebrate anniversaries,

because the environment is just way better suited to being there with someone else.

And 95% of our guests are coming as as two people,

as either couples or two friends.

and so our environment is really just catered to that,

which again is something I think that.

that we want in America and we already spend money going on spas trying to find,

but it's just never in other places set up appropriately.

~

Yeah, that's fantastic.

It sounds like you guys are really on to something there.

could you walk me through what does an experience at an Oakwell spa look like?

From from the time you arrive to the services you offer and and that experience that

you would get there. What's what is that?

Yeah, yeah. So we ~ we well obviously you make your reservation online,

right? So the idea is to make sure you have a pleasant experience,

which is why we often consider ourselves as ~ almost a tech company,

just because we really put a lot of time and energy on the booking flow,

on the experience you have on the website,

the inform the quality of the information.

And when it's time to come.

well, we ask you to come 30 minutes before just because we want to ease

you into relaxation. ~ there's a a minimal check-in process where we check your IDs.

There's obviously beer, wine, cider,

non-alcoholic beverage on tap.

So the law requires to check your ID.

You send a waiver or two, making sure that you're aware that there's

no lifeguard on duty and that you you need to stay responsible,

because there is there is alcohol.

if you want to drink it. And ~ then we ~ start the experience.

We escort you to a beautiful tap room.

We have what it's called a beer wall so it's a tap wool with different select select

selection of created beer craft beer from Colorado we have sours,

IPA, denkel, saison.

It really depends on the pretty much the season and the breweries we have on tap.

Have cider, non-alcoholic beverages.

~ we have wine for the ladies or the guys who are want take a break from the beer.

and we work you through that whole selection.

And of course, you have a little tasting if you'd like to.

And we teach you how to ~ pour yourself a nice drink.

~ often people tell us they know how to pour,

but we're we're very

We we love teaching, so often we we show to people how to perfect ~ pour

a perfect beer. and when it's done we invite you to take a seat somewhere

in the in beautiful tapro imaging that that it's not your typical tap room.

I will actually we we could call it the lounge,

or more it's like a ~ hotel, boutique hotel,

lobby lounge where it smells good,

the music is nice.

there's the decor is really helping you to ease into relaxation.

we have topic cards in the middle of each table where you can put your phone away

and really start to reconnect when you're sitting in order with all

of those table topics. that's a brand.

if they listen to us, thank you.

You you've reconnected a lot of ~ couples.

and ~

When you take a seat and you have you start to seep your beer,

we usually want some have someone else from the team kind to introduce

you to our bath selection. So you're able to select ~ one of

the three baths we offer. ~ those baths are not made with real beer,

fermented beer, no. it's a botan it's a botanical and holistic approach to bathing.

We liver a gift for and fresh.

~ herbs ~ such as hops and barley which are the ingredients of

the beer and different other ingredients it can be lemongrass verbina every time

or mass we have a master herbalist in house that helps us to come up with

all of that but every time it changes it's always new most of

the time we're actually right now working on the wine bath ~ as well

and anyway you select your wine your bath your beer bath or your future wine bath

And when you have made your selection,

~ you have about a few more minutes to ease into relaxation by ~ drinking

and taking pictures in your fun social media tab.

~ and then when it's time to go,

~ we have ~ a beer therapist. This is the legal name ~ of the legal title

of our staff members, they give you a tour and escort you to private spec suits.

So

You get into a private space suit.

It's very large, it's beautiful,

it smells good, it has been cleaned and sanitized.

so no one you don't have that feeling that someone else has been before you.

we have the large hydrotherapy tub,

the rain shower, and the soda.

And we suggest you start a circuit with a 15-20 minutes of infrared soda

to really detox, let go everything,

sweat as much as you can.

Of course, you can drink your favorite beer.

In the soda, we have those trip insulated stainless steel tumbler that you can use.

We have water, of course, available for you.

Then it's time to take a cold shower for a few seconds to really shake

up that body and and and help you to keep your blood flowing.

to then ~ jump into this beautiful large bath.

as I said, the bath is not made with fermented beer.

~ so imagine yourself really smelling what it would smell when you walk next

to brewery that is currently brewing,

most like worth, right? but it's also very herbal.

the temperature of the top is not what you would expect from a tub of ores.

~ this is not a hot tub. it is more like between 95 and 100 degrees Fahrenheit.

This helps you to really stay in the bath,

soak in the bag as

bath as much as possible and and it helps to not destroy kill the benefits

of those ~ fresh ingredients ~ we have we have a room service button

and case you want to have a refill just ring the bell I often we often joke

if you ring twice we'll run faster for you to bring you your favorite drinks.

you can add a bottle of sparkling wine there's different packages with a charcuterie

~ artisan chocolate bonbon anyway you can really make this experience your

own celebration anniversary birthday but that's not just a simple

me time for yourself or yourself and a good friend we have as well a mini

bar ~ we call it the cosmetic mini bar similar to what actually one

of those hotel changes just launched a beauty bar but we we've we've launched

it five years ago

And imagine that it it's it it works exactly the same like it would work

in the Outan world, but instead of having vodka champagne available,

you have those cosmetics product that helps you to label your experience

in the room. So we have beer air mask,

we have face mask, we have ~ CBD bad bumps,

~ we have body lotion, and all those product are here to help

you label to experience as well.

~ and you know by that time it's been an hour and a half.

so you're about to leave your room.

and we have a beautiful vent era where you can freshen up and and and

~ get ready for your next ~ for your next adventures.

We have what it's called the cooling down ~ areas.

It's ~ it's a lounge where after we expert,

we really suggest you to take it easy.

and take a good 15-20 minutes to cool down,

take it easy, have another beer,

cider, often the beer or cider tastes better after the experience.

And then we have this why it's this experience called a zero gravity massage

experience. So those are high technology piece of equipment you might think those

are massage chairs but they're not not your typical massage chairs from

the mall other airports that you see.

there are high technology pieces of equipment that scans your body

for 20 seconds when you sit in them,

rock line you like an astronaut is taking off.

so like Jeff Bezos going into ~ space,

right? and and that's ~ that technology starts from top to bottom and give

you a full body massage for 15-30 minutes or an hour.

those are very popular.

~ we we've realized that the markets in in the US ~ is very similar

to specific markets like in Japan or Satara where people don't like strangers

to touch them or being you know natural when a stranger's ~ touching your body might

not feel good. So ~ leveraging technology to deliver a massage experience

has been key to your success and actually has made your concept even more popular.

~ this is a this is a a very successful company based in Boulder,

Planet Boulder, as I like to call it.

They know what they're doing, they know their technology,

and ~ and yeah, so about an hour and a half in the private spice suite,

maybe a 15-30 minutes an hour message on top of that.

plus 30 minutes checking in. It's about two hours and a half

to three hours staycation. and often what we hear from the guests coming in is

this is the best date night we ever had we're about to reconnect there

is no distraction no screens no games no waiters disrupting

or conversation ~ no table next to us that is annoying right or even trying

to discuss with us it's it's really it's it's almost a mini vacation it's it's

a mini vacation some you know some feedback or

I cannot believe I'm in Denver.

I cannot believe I'm right in the middle of Rhino five points.

I cannot believe that eventually for just 30 minute message I feel more relaxed

and and happy. So so we're nailing it at that point on delivering happiness through

~ wellness.

man, that sounds fantastic. I am ~ even looking more forward to coming down

to Denver and checking it out.

We've been trying to make that happen for a while and ~ just haven't put

a trip to Denver together. But I want to shift gears a little bit from

the the experience and talk a little bit about your guys' experience building this

business. ~ what was the most difficult step getting Oakwell off the ground?

You you had this great idea.

~ you explored the world and got inspiration from a lot of different cultures,

a lot of different experiences.

What what was the hardest part in making it a reality?

Yeah. to paint the picture. So we had decided that we wanted to open a beer spa.

We spent the second half of our travels putting together financial projections,

business plan. And then we had to decide where we wanted to open this.

We had been living in New York City previously.

As much as we love New York, it's really expensive.

It's oversaturated when it comes to tourist activities.

So we wanted to find a market that we could make an impact in more quickly

and that was also a bit more affordable.

So we did a ton of market research again while we were on the other side

of the world, just you know, on our computers looking up ~ craft beer cities,

looking at wellness-oriented cities,

and have really narrowed it down to Austin,

Denver, and Portland. Denver ended up winning.

We had never

Been to Denver before, but all of our market research was saying,

hey, Denver's the place where you should launch this.

we were really interested in the franchise model.

So we knew we wanted to scale this into a national brand by franchising.

There was a lot of really successful franchises that started in Denver.

Chipotle, Quisnos, other companies like Crocs,

Otterbox. you know, it's it's really a hub for startups.

~ we also found that Denver had a lot of financing programs

for small businesses that can't get traditional funding.

We had a little bit of money that we had saved up from our corporate jobs,

but again, we had just been traveling for a little over a year,

so we we didn't have much left,

but we didn't want to take outside investors,

we didn't want to give away any equity.

So we needed to find a way to get a loan,

even though we didn't have a house.

So we didn't have collateral. We had a tiny bit of money to put in,

but we knew that it'd be challenging to find funding.

what we didn't anticipate though was how difficult it was to find

a commercial space to put this.

So we flew right to Denver after traveling.

We still had our backpacks on,

now business plan in hand, right?

we didn't know anything about Denver,

like the neighborhoods, where to go.

So we ended up ~ on this site called Trusted House Sitters,

which we had used while traveling as well,

which you can basically stay for free in people's homes in exchange

for watching their homes or pets while they're away traveling.

So there's about three or four different houses that we stayed at.

We watched this one lady's cat while she was on a cruise.

this other lady went to New Zealand to visit some family for a few weeks.

So we watched her. She had three dogs and two cats,

like a lot of animals to watch.

but but so we were staying in these places for free,

like trying to get a feel for Denver.

~ also started going and pitching banks,

trying to find a loan. We went to over forty banks.

We went to all the big ones. We you know,

chase

Bank of America, Wells Fargo, we went to your small local Rocky Mountain,

you know, credit union type of things.

and really quickly, you know, we found out we weren't going to get a loan from

a traditional bank. You know, it we didn't have the collateral,

we didn't have the cash to put in.

So we ended up getting connected ~ with the city of Denver,

the Office of Economic Development,

which we had read a little bit about these programs when we were traveling.

but we ended up being able to get a loan because all of these banks said

no to us and we were able to bring them the rejection letters from these 40 banks.

And we had a pretty good, you know,

a very comprehensive business plan and financial projections.

But one of the caveats of getting a loan from the Office of Economic Development

was the business needed to be physically located in a specific area.

So they had this map of these neighborhoods that they were trying

to redevelop essentially. So we weren't going to

be able to go to the hip and trendy,

you know, Cherry Creek or Low High or these neighborhoods in Denver that,

you know, already have a lot of businesses in them,

we'd have to kind of be in the outskirts in the areas that ~ were maybe

a little bit sketchy, but they're the city was trying to put some money into.

so when we were looking for commercial spaces,

this was in 2019.

You know, Denver had this big boom because of marijuana.

And so the vacancy rate for commercial spaces of the size that we were looking

for was two percent. So ninety-eight percent of these,

you know, buildings that kind of fit our specs were already occupied.

So we had a very limited pool.

Plus, then you take into consideration that we have to be located within these

specific neighborhoods in order to get the the funding that we wanted to.

~ so one of our biggest challenges was actually finding the commercial space,

which we thought, like, yeah, we're gonna be able to sign a lease,

it's gonna be so easy, like we're gonna have a really hard time finding the money.

~ but the the opposite was actually true.

We got the funding really quite quickly within a few months of being here,

contingent upon finding a space.

And finding a space took us about we moved here in January,

ended up signing a lease in October.

So it took us 10 months.

You know, a lot of the landlords wouldn't even show us the space.

And mind you, they didn't even have to do anything.

They had real estate agents that would show the space for them,

but they didn't even give us the time of day to show us the space because they

wanted a proven tenant. They didn't know a what a beer spa was.

Also, like who are these young,

you know, 20-something year old kids?

Like, they're not going to be able to pay this rent.

Like, I'm not even going to waste my time.

I'd rather have a 7-Eleven or a Chick-fil-A or some proven concept.

So that was really surprising.

~ and we ended up finding a space that is in it's a neighborhood called Five Points.

It's right adjacent to the brewery district,

but it's definitely not in the Hipp and Trendy area.

~ and Five Points is has historically been a pretty sketchy neighborhood in Denver.

I mean, even 15 years ago, it's like you don't walk around at night alone

in Five Points.

the block that we went into had been vacant for several years.

And so there was a lot of, you know,

un unsavory characters that would hang out in the parking lot and on the block.

so it was a big risk for us going in there.

~ but we saw that it had a lot of potential.

We loved the building as well,

had a lot of character to it. so we we ended up doing the construction there,

but that was.

Definitely the second part that was the most challenging was the build out.

We were very underfunded, even though we got a loan.

You know, we did our construction budget based on like what's

the average construction cost in Denver per square footage,

right? And so we're like, okay,

Yeah.

$150 per square foot sounds great.

We didn't realize, you know, the building didn't have enough electrical service.

We had to upsize the electrical service.

The water line was

A half an inch lead pipe that was installed in 1896.

You know, we have high water needs for our tubs.

So we had to upsize the water line,

which is really expensive. There was no heating or air conditioning,

so we had to install two new five-ton rooftop units for HVAC.

all of these things that definitely was not captured in our $150

a square foot construction budget.

so we had to get really creative.

And even finding a GC that would work on our project with that limited budget

was challenging. We we found a guy his name is Ron though,

and I mean it wouldn't have been it wouldn't have been possible without him.

He gave us his toolbox, like brought all of his tools there.

He would teach me how to install cabinetry,

how to mud drywall, how to do some minor electrical work and plumbing work.

I mean, we were doing things that we

Absolutely had no business doing,

but you know, it was the only way that we could get the the project done and open.

So it ended up taking two years to do the construction because we had to do

a lot of it ourselves. And then for our equipment as well,

it's like a walk-in cooler cost twenty thousand dollars brand new.

We didn't have that kind of money.

You know, fortunately for us though,

this was during COVID. And so a lot of businesses were going out of business.

So Ron had turned us in, ~ turned us on to ~ the concept of business auctions.

So there's a couple of business auction houses in Colorado that basically when

a company goes out of business and they get reclaimed by the city

or reclaimed by the bank, they put all of their equipment and furniture

up for auction for other people to bid on.

So we ended up getting

~ over 50% of our furniture fixtures and equipment used from these auctions.

Like our walk-in cooler came from a subway that was going out of business

in Fort Collins. That was a 20-year-old walk-in cooler,

but it still ran. It was like all corroded inside,

lots of rust, like in very rough shape.

But we ended up getting it for $200 at auction.

We paid another $200 for a moving company to disassemble it in Fort Collins,

drive it down to us and put it back together.

We ended up pressure washing it to get the rust off.

We got some sheet metal to just put on the inside so the health department didn't

see that it's like actually like rotting on the inside.

So we could pass our health inspection.

you know, there's so many stories like that of just how we had to get creative,

you know, Facebook marketplace,

finding things that were broken,

like light fixtures that were broken,

and then, you know, ~ bribing our electricians with a beer to fix the wiring

so we could use the light fixture.

but it was definitely a really challenging time.

I mean, Damien and I were were you know,

we had no other outside income at this time,

so we also had to live really cheap.

We in between doing this physical construction work,

I would go and sell my blood plasma.

I had gotten COVID during this time.

So this is when they were wanted to do research on people's blood.

So I could get $100 per session to to sell my blood plasma.

~ we used, you know, we got as many zero percent APR credit cards as

we could get approved for. And we learned the trick of if you apply for.

A bunch of credit cards on the same day,

then they won't know, you know,

it hasn't showed up on your credit report yet.

So you just apply for, you know,

five or ten credit cards with no interest rate for the first 12 months

and just max all of those out.

fingers crossed that you'd be able to pay those off before interest kicks

in at the end of the 12 months.

we'd then get credit card points and convert those into Walmart gift cards that

we could buy the pillows for the couches in the chat room.

Damian drove for lift. So all day we do construction and then at 11 p.m.

he'd start driving for lift and he would do airport rides ~ because that's where

he could get the most money and he would use that as a time to do market research.

He would ask the guests, like you know,

that he's driving around, like,

hey, I'm opening a beer stall,

like how much would you pay for this?

How long would you want to spend in the private spa suite?

Like, what do you think about this?

And it was a great.

Great time to get a real like sampling of the general public and ask them

a bunch of questions about our business concept,

which funny enough, a few of them actually came to the spa later on and was like,

hey, Damien was our lift driver back in the day.

you know, we would walk dogs on rover for $10 or $20 to do a quick 30-minute

dog walk around the neighborhood.

~ so we had to get really

Scrappy. There was a lot of yeah,

tensions were high, not a lot of sleep.

We were very poor. ~ but but eventually we got it done.

my gosh, yeah, that is quite the adventure.

A at what point in that were you most afraid?

Was there ever a point that you didn't think you were gonna be able to pull it off?

I'm not sure, Don F Alfred. I think at that point,

you know, you're building this ID that you you're taking on the world.

I think it's more the market, the the product slash service fits the market.

Is that the right timing? You know,

you're spending all that energy time and you you wonder if everything,

all of the decisions you're taking sometime on the fly.

or makes sense and is this will serve the main goal of shaking

up that ~ marketplace you know and ~ and and i think the second part

is if if you're just specifically talking about construction is that obsession

of opening day you don't know the date but you need to strive on that goal

we need to open

need to open there's no we're not building all that we're not buying

all those things to not open which means the translation is running

out of money well we didn't have any so running out of money we have

to open the business which often is you know what can you leverage credit cards

you know driving lift all of the side gigs that really helps you fuel

and and many as well

Most importantly the the trust and the confidence you have from your

GC because today because during that time the GC was

I mean he was the one who was helping us to make this happening.

So how do you manage the subcontractors,

him sometimes you know, people come from different walk of life,

they have different way of reaction,

you know, like

You know, you come in the morning at 6 a.m.

you say, hey, this needs to be done today,

you know, and you're just, you know,

sometime a 20 years old something at a time,

and that person will build hundreds of ~ hundreds of thousands

of square feet feet through the carrier,

you know, you can have some clash.

So how do you how do you make sure that a project stays on track with managing

the Russian sheep, managing the resources?

and making sure that you stay focused on this opening time,

that opening day that should you should get closer as soon as you start,

you're actually getting closer.

It's like a marathon. It's it's you're getting closer to your finish line

Yeah.

and and you need to stick to that no matter what.

And you need to be very strong.

You need you need to you need to really sometime

~ stay clueless and just believe that this is gonna happen even if you feel like

the sky is falling on you right now.

What Erick, one of the ~ a funny story that I think you know speaks to this.

Yeah.

We were two weeks away from our grand opening.

So this is like end of construction,

right? We had we're finally, we've made it,

we've set a date for our grand opening,

and we go to test all of our tubs.

We had installed this.

tankless hot water heating systems.

We have like very expensive three tankless hot water heaters that

are kind of wrapped together in a loop to to provide us all the hot water that

we need to fill our tubs that are like 200 gallons per tub.

We have four tubs and we're filling them 27 times a day.

So we're like pumping through a lot of water.

And we needed to test it before our grand opening.

So we go and we we fire up the the tankless hot water heaters.

We start filling the tubs

And we keep getting an error message on the tankless hot water heaters that

we don't have enough gas. There's not enough gas.

There's not enough gas. Like we can't work.

And they keep shutting down on us.

And we're like, no, what is going on?

Like we we just installed all of this brand new.

Like, how can this not be working?

We're of course getting like really pissed off at our general contractor,

like saying all sorts of things to him.

and so Damien had this brilliant idea of like,

okay.

We don't have enough gas. Like maybe there's a a gas leak or like maybe just

the building's not getting enough gas.

Like we we need to get XL Energy out here.

And XL is the local, you know,

utility authority. ~ so he ended up calling the emergency XL line saying that there

is a gas leak to get someone to come out to just like help us figure

out what's going on. Because you can't just call them and be like,

hey, will you send someone out and like help us troubleshoot our construction job?

so he's like, Yeah, there's a gas leak,

like, you know, and they send someone out with their,

you know, little sirens on, like parking on the sidewalk thinking that there there

could be a gas explosion or an emergency.

And the guy's like, yeah, I don't really smell any gas here.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Like, I get that your water heaters aren't working,

but there's not a leak here. And as he's walking out of the building,

he sees the gas meter outside and he says,

Hey, like,

Did you know that your gas meter is sized for like a single family residential unit?

Like this is not a commercial gas meter.

There's no way that this gas meter is letting enough flow through

to feed this commercial hot water heater system.

Like you need to upsize the gas meter.

So we're like, first off, pissed off at our GC,

like, how did you not like we did all we redid the piping inside the building?

To be large enough for the gas that we needed and just didn't check the gas meter,

which you know, all the gas flows through and is restricting the flow.

And no one thought to look at that.

We have opening in in two weeks.

And so we asked the guy from Excel,

and we're hey, how long is this gonna take?

And he's like, that's that's it takes months.

Like you have to get permits, you have to apply for you have

to get engineering drawings, like there's calculations to be done,

the equipment is, you know, back ordered.

And we're like, no, like everything is done.

We're ready to open. Like we have a ribbon cutting ceremony with

the mayor scheduled. Like we cannot wait months for this.

This is horrible. And so that was one of the times that we thought,

like, no, like we we may not open on time.

This could be a disaster. And so another stroke of genius from Damien

is after calling the main line and getting just the same rejection of like,

no, no, this is like a multi-months process.

Damien was like, I need to find someone that could can push this through.

So he went on LinkedIn and looked at profiles of anyone that worked for Excel,

like within Denver. And there's these little,

you know, add-ons that you can have on your browser,

like Rocket Reach or Contact Out or something that will scrape the LinkedIn page

and give you the personal contact information of those people.

So I forgot what this guy's actual name is,

but we'll we'll call him Tim, right?

So

Tim, like we found he's the director of of you know gas services at Axel Energy.

He finds a phone number for him.

Instead of calling his phone number,

it's his landline. Like it is his home phone.

And so he picks up, it's like hello,

and there's children screaming in the background.

And Damien in his French accent is like,

hello, like I'm Damien. We're trying to open this beer spall.

We have this emergency, like we have a grand opening.

The mayor's coming, coming. We need to upsize our gas line.

The guy's like,

How did you get this number? And he's like,

Well, you know, I found it online.

and he's like, This is my personal number.

Don't ever call me back here, but let me call you from my work phone

in a few minutes. So you know,

he's a little pissed off, but is ~ interested,

I think. So he ends up giving us a call back.

and Damien explains the story and is like,

is this an emergency? Is there anything we can do?

and he somehow ends up convincing this guy to expedite it for us.

You know, I think he could hear the desperation in our voice.

and ended up getting us a new gas meter correctly sized,

installed a week later, you know,

just in time for grand opening.

~ and so, you know, everything worked out at the end of the day.

But that was definitely one of those times when,

you know, after so much hard work.

And you're thinking the finish line is right there,

like then it just feels like it's gonna all all slip through your fingers.

but thankfully we we found a solution.

my goodness. And so what was that timeline?

You said you moved to Denver in January.

You finally got into the building in October.

you guys have leveraged everything you've can.

Yeah.

You've borrowed money anywhere you possibly can,

including credit cards. you're just ~ driving lift,

walking dogs, trying to get this paid for and finished for opening day.

What how long was that entire process?

yeah, from from landing to Denver to the grand opening.

two years. yes, two years. We moved here January first,

twenty nineteen. And signed lease in October twenty nineteen and ended

up opening in February of twenty twenty one.

So it was like a year and a half of construction.

my gosh.

And so it not only I mean i you're funding this build and

the construction and trying to make the business go,

but you guys had to fund your life for two years as well,

Yeah.

driving lift and walking dogs and doing all of these things.

So you're you're pushing this construction while also trying to make life happen.

Exactly. Yeah, it was ~ it was a stressful time for sure.

man.

It tested our relationship. ~ but you know,

after traveling the world backpacking on a shoestring budget as well for 14 months,

you know, we we've we learned how to work through some some tough times together

for sure.

man, ~ anybody that you know has a negative opinion of business owners

or entrepreneurs or those that have made a success of themselves,

they they need to have that experience you guys had.

That yeah,

Absolutely.

that's that's an incredible story.

So ~ I'm guessing you know, from your story here,

you're you're launching the business with quite a bit of debt.

you've leveraged everything you could possibly leverage to make it happen.

And fast forward to today, you guys have multiple locations,

are starting your journey towards franchising and and really going out

as a national brand. w what did that look like?

I mean, w was it kind of a success from the beginning?

~ was there still a juggling act going with all the leverage and the debt

you guys had? ~ what were those first months,

first years like?

I mean you can call it a success from the level you started,

right? That's very subjective to call it a success.

But yes, for us it's a success because we're about to open and prove ourselves that

the business model can be replicable with a second additional store.

the success as well of building a strong team.

You obviously don't open a second store if you have not built

a successful first team. and I think and and and I think we think that

From day one, we were so obsessed with delivering what we think

is our ~ you know core mission is to help

the humanity to relax and and ~ feel and connect

and feel ~ good and that's a simple,

maybe foolish statement. But ~ you know,

after five years, two stores well obsessed with

guest feedbacks on making sure that the guest lives happy which translates into

great usually reviews online or ~ as well building that community around that really

want to come and and and be a member of ~ of oakwell we have

a membership program now has shown that this is this is successful now

you know ~ we are not thinking that way i think we're still as of today in

survival mode. I mean, you know,

waking up in the morning has a fellow entrepreneurs thinking that the

sky might fall on you and you need to be ready for that.

You cannot anticipate it. Of course you can as much as possible,

Yeah.

but you cannot control everything.

So making sure that you never stays never stay grounded

on your ~ you know, today it's easy,

you know, it's it you know. ~ there's always challenges in place that we

we we work on. I must say we have the best team ever ~ right now so just again

I can focus on more like the bigger picture going nationwide,

building building a strong ~ pool

of franchisee that wants to jump into this bandwagon that they're they they'd

love to get something new that has been proven here in this market.

~ and and that's what we're doing now.

~ while the team ~ in that very highlands ranch are managing

the day-to-day operations. Of course,

we're extremely involved, but at a very different degree.

We spend our first three years and a half,

seven days a week, focused on operations.

We think that we're in a really good stage today to let our managers shining.

Having them the responsibility to do good to stick to that mission statement

to for us to be able to now spread Oakwell Nationally.

But I have to say, going back to 2021 when we first opened,

the timing was perfect. You know,

COVID was just ending. ~ people had money,

they wanted to get out, they wanted to do things,

but they were a little apprehensive to go to

their s normal spa to go get a pedicure or to go get a massage or

a facial where you're interacting with a service provider in close quarters.

So our concept was really well adapted to these this post-COVID world of,

you know, we had these private spa suites.

They were clean, disinfected after each use,

you're just spending time with the person that you came with.

You're not really interacting with staff,

you know, in in any sort of close manner.

~ so as soon as we opened our booking system,

we had two and a half bookings per minute for the first 24 hours.

Our servers crashed, the website crashed,

we had so much traffic. And it's so funny that the business model

was that Damien and I, you know,

thought we were gonna slowly get busier over time.

Yeah.

We'd have a few appointments a day at the beginning and it would like slowly ramp

up.

So we had no intention of hiring anyone at the beginning.

We thought we were going to run the spa,

the two of us, for the first year at least.

So all of a sudden we are booked out at 100% occupancy as soon as

we open the booking system, like from the day that we opened.

And we're open seven days a week,

8 a.m. to 10 30 p.m. booked solid.

So we very quickly realized that we needed to hire a team.

We had about a week in between when we opened the booking system.

And when our our first appointments actually were.

~ so we I very quickly, you know,

thankfully I had a recruiting background.

So I very quickly put together a job description,

you know, started inviting people in for interviews,

but this was when stimulus checks were going out.

And so half of the interviews wouldn't even show up because people were getting free

checks from the government. So

recruiting was really difficult.

And basically it was like anyone that showed up,

you know, semi on time to the interview and could hold the conversation that

we were like, can you be here on Friday?

Mm.

We had no training material yet.

So I had to very quickly put together some training curriculum,

define, you know, who was doing what.

We had no like opening or closing tasks.

We we had nothing because we were just gonna like figure it out as we went along.

~ so you know, and fortunately our our first group of employees like were very

my gosh.

understanding that we were kind of throwing it together.

and yeah, we were just absolutely slammed.

And we were to Damien's point,

like so focused on the guest experience and really,

really willing to go above and beyond anytime something happened,

which it did, like we were slammed from the beginning.

Like we'd forget towels in someone's room,

right? So they're like getting out of a shower,

dripping wet, and there's no towels for them to use.

Or we have an automated filling and draining system for the tubs where when

the session is done, the tub should automatically start draining.

And that's the indication that it's your time to get out of the room,

that you have 20 minutes to like freshen up and exit the room.

Well, we'd forget to set the timer on the tub.

And so you'd be in the tub for five minutes and it would start draining on you.

So all these things would happen,

but we were like really quick to a like,

okay, you're not paying for this experience,

and we're giving you a gift card to come back and try it again.

so you can experience it as it was intended to be,

because we've seen so many businesses open and you start off,

you know, with a ~ some negative reviews and all of a sudden you're at

a four point eight and then you're at a four point two,

and then now all of a sudden you're at a three something,

and like no one wants to go to a business that has a three point something rating.

Especially when it's like already a beer spa,

like sounds kind of weird. I don't know.

So there people are already a little apprehensive.

So we were very focused on maintaining,

you know, positive reviews, making sure that if anything went wrong,

like we the guests didn't pay for it.

We invited them to come back. and so we maintained a five-star rating

for our first two and a half years in business.

We're at a four point nine now,

which we were very

sad that we went down to 4.9, but it's been five years in business.

We have over 3,000 Google reviews and still a 4.9 rating,

which at least in in Denver is is pretty unheard of.

That is incredible. That's an awesome story.

I just I can't get over it. The the risk you guys took,

the leverage that you took, and then for it to take off like that,

~ that's incredible. That's you guys have something special and I just keep going

back to the girl that was analyzing traffic patterns for her lemonade stand.

you've taken that level of detail,

that level of attention, and brought it to a market that ~ needed shaking up.

i wow, you guys are doing it. You're making it happen.

So I I'm guessing you guys l lived on the cheap for a very long time.

You you went from two, I'm guessing,

well paid corporate jobs living in New York,

the New York lifestyle, to living out of a backpack around the world,

kind of roughing it and then bootstrapping this business.

What has the last five years looked like?

What what is capital investment look like for you guys?

Are you still putting everything you've got back into the business or have

No, yeah.

you hit a point where you can reap some of the benefits and enjoy that life

a little bit?

Yeah, I mean we we we definitely give ourselves a bit of salary,

~ but most of the resources generated

are reinvested back for the next step.

So I think we're still very early on in the the lifetime of the company.

I think there's still a lot of necessary big investments.

the most ~ the first one that comes to my mind is marketing.

I mean

to educate the market about a concept like oars takes so much resources.

You know, franchising is another big bucket that demands ~

a lot of investment up front to see results way later.

And as you know, you know, when you build those type of spas,

those are brick and mortar, they're very capital intensive.

not only you need to building the second one ~ in a matter of within within five

years in business was you know from sp some institutions pretty risky

but we've proven the business model but now you know how do you plan

the future with thinking of remodeling the first spa which we're doing

now because we build it ourselves but now it's time to remodel it.

to bring the level of comfort you have with the new from the new store we've built.

supporting your franchisee, your future franchisee is key.

this is what really makes a franchise sales system successful is this level

of support. And you cannot be cheap.

You cannot you cannot ~ you know we we've never been in business.

We've never created a business to

it's mine. It's thank you. You know,

no, we we we we want our team to be good,

we want our managers to make it a career,

we want our team members to see the the project themselves within

the company and and this takes time and resources.

So most of the proceeds right now are being re reinvested.

But we're we're fortunate that both of our locations,

you know, were cash flow positive since day one of opening both locations.

W well when you're booking a

I mean they're

new appointment every what was it,

two and a half minutes?

Exactly. Yes. Yeah. No, two and a half bookings per minute.

my gosh. That's incredible. Or

Yeah.

yeah, okay. Two and a half bookings per minute.

That's incredible.

Per minute

for twenty-four hours. So the businesses are are extremely profitable.

and you know, for a franchisee that decides to ~ invest in us and open their

own oak well, I mean, you can live a very good life just owning and operating one.

Whereas a lot of other concepts,

like you go and do a quick service restaurant or

~ maybe even ~ more like a the massage envy or the now or these smaller massage

chains, you really have to own multiple units because the average revenue

per unit and the margins are relatively small.

You know, our our revenue is fairly high for the industry and our margins

are pretty high for the industry.

So you can make a good living just having one location.

But for us to Damien's point, you know,

we've we've never been in this for the money and we want to grow this into something

big. So, you know, while yes, we're we're not,

you know, staying in people's homes for free anymore.

Like we we're s we're still renting,

right? Like we don't even own a a home.

We're still renting an an apartment.

thankfully, you know, we we've we've been able to have a little bit nicer

of a lifestyle than we were when we were backpacking the world.

~ but it's really our choice to reinvest everything to grow this into

a national brand because things like you know,

the remodel and franchising, we've been able to save up enough cash that we're able

to self-fund a lot of these things ~ instead of taking out ~ additional loans

and and increasing our debt. so you know,

while ~ a location by itself, if you just own and operate one location,

it's a very profitable business,

but

we've just made the decision to reinvest all of our profits into making this even

bigger.

That's incredible. I love it. You guys are the epitome of the entrepreneur.

~ just your your personalities,

the experiences you bring to it.

I I hope this takes off in a way you can't even imagine.

I'm I'm so impressed by your story.

I love it. So ~ I know you guys are launching the ~ franchising operation

is kind of a new thing. can you give me some of the details about that?

What what would be your ideal franchise or?

And what kind of a commitment does that take from them and and what does that

process look like?

Yeah. So our our ideal franchisee is going to be someone that has some sort

of experience in the hospitality industry.

You know, we're a hospitality business at the end of the day.

~ guest service is really important.

but also employee happiness, I'd say,

is of the utmost importance. And,

you know, hospitality, hourly hospitality employees are much different than folks

that you'll find in the corporate world.

So, someone that is just leaving a corporate job and wants to start their

own business, it can be a hard adjustment then.

And it certainly was for us, you know,

now having employees that were servers and bartenders previously.

They have different ambitions,

different things that drive them,

the work ethic is different. and so just knowing how to ~ connect with

and motivate this, you know, specific type of employee is really important.

because if your employees aren't happy,

And you just come in and you manage them like you would a team

of software developers at at your,

you know, Fortune 500 corporate job,

it's not going to go over very well.

~ and if your employees aren't happy,

then the guests feel that. We've all been to a restaurant before where

it seems like you're inconveniencing the server by being there.

And no matter how great the ambiance is or how great the food is,

if the service doesn't feel great,

then it's not gonna be a good experience and you're not going to come back.

And so

having someone that has some experience in the hospitality industry,

they don't need to have owned a restaurant before,

but even just working as a server or bartender when they were younger,

just understanding that mindset,

I think is really important. we really love immigrants as well,

right? Like Damien coming from France.

I I really appreciate people that moved to the United States to make

a life for themselves. the the the

Typically the work ethic is there,

right? They work really hard. They want to provide for their family.

And the fact that they moved all the way to the United States and put

all of their eggs in this basket to create something for themselves really speaks

to the type of character that they have.

And so we we really love talking to people that,

you know, aren't originally from the United States.

~ and then of course, people that are looking to ~ maybe change.

their career, like they've been in in the corporate world for their whole life,

or maybe they've owned other types of businesses and are looking

to diversify into something a little bit more fun or into something that's newer.

is you know all great things that we're looking for as well.

And in terms of cities, you know,

we've mapped out a hundred target markets within the United States,

~ really mid to large size cities.

So typically nothing smaller than Denver,

Colorado.

With the exception of ~ high tourist ~ cities.

So places like Asheville, North Carolina or ~ Palm Springs,

they're smaller cities, the population count isn't quite as large,

but you get a lot of visitors.

so those cities I think would work really great for an Oakwell beer spa as well.

Okay. And and what is the I guess what commitment level are you looking at

for the ~ franchise or what does that look like?

I mean what how how do they get started?

Yeah, yeah. So the

yeah. well, the first that they have to understand is the investment level.

So it's anywhere between 1.3 million to 2.6 million to create an oakwell beer spot,

depending on the city that you're in,

right? The range is really high because 2.6 million accounts for New York City

or LA, California, where construction costs are really high.

Yeah.

If you're in a smaller market,

it'll be on the lower end of that.

So

~ first is, you know, someone that has the capital to be able to typically it'll

be a combination of funds like liquid cash that they have available in addition

to a loan. you know, we are on the SBA ~ franchise registry,

and so an SBA loan is a route that people often take.

but how the process works is it's really an it it it needs to be a mutual fit.

Both we are selecting them and they're selecting us.

~ so the first step is filling out an inquiry form on our website.

So it's Oakwellfranchise.com. then they'll set up an introductory call with Damien

and I. We'll kind of get to know each other,

talk through what they're interested in,

why they're looking to invest in a franchise,

~ what city that they're looking to open in.

You know, we've had some people expressed interest,

like they're really excited about the concept,

but the city that they want to open this in is really,

really small.

It's like two hours away from any sort of major city.

~ and unfortunately, you know,

we just don't feel like the population count will be able to support a a spa,

at least at the beginning. so making sure that the,

you know, city and state that they're looking at aligns.

and then there's several different education calls that they go through.

So we walk them through what the construction process looks like,

what support we provide in construction.

We walk them through the marketing program,

you know, what national marketing.

support that they'll have. We walk them through the financials of,

you know, here's how our two corporate owned stores have done from

a revenue and expense and a net profit perspective.

Here's what you can expect in your market.

~ and then the last step is for them to come out to what in the franchise world

we call Discovery Day. ~ so it's basically they get to meet us in person,

enjoy a spa experience. We do some behind the scenes,

like here's what a day in the life of running a spa looks like.

and then after the discovery day is we both make a decision.

Like we make a decision on if we think this person will be a good fit for our brand.

They also make a decision if this is a concept that they want to invest in.

and then you get into, you know,

legal legal documents from there and bring them on board.

But the process can go as as slowly or as quickly as the person feels comfortable

with, but ~ on average the whole thing takes,

you know, from filling out the form to actually signing can be a sixty

to ninety day process.

Okay. Well, I'm gonna shift gears here a little bit again.

I know you guys both had some big dreams when you were younger,

had some pretty specific goals with a a PhD program,

being a pilot. it you're a long ways from those goals.

is there any regret with that?

If you could go back and do it all over again,

w would you rather be where you are today or would you rather chase those dreams

you had early on?

no regrets at all. I think we're we're living the dream.

I mean, you know, we have a beautiful company.

you know, it's still the early days.

~ I think, you know, maybe if if you think about regrets you have is to maybe not,

you know, sometime during those times where maybe you didn't believe

it enough in you, maybe today looking back and tell yourself

to the you know young young men or young ~

What manual is that hey, don't worry,

everything's gonna turn out great.

Stay resilient, be resilient, be focused,

stay for stay, stay ~ stay strong,

~ surround yourself with the right people.

the road's not gonna be easy, but even if it's a bumpy road,

it's worth it. And ~ and that's the way personally I look at

you know the past, the present and the future.

And you know, often if you focus on the past,

it's like, you know, a stuck in newspaper.

You cannot change the headlines.

You cannot change anything. The only thing you can do is to learn from it

and ~ and and and change the course of your actions for the future and

and this will likely impact your life in the future or your business or wh whatever.

whatever current ~ stage in your life you are at.

~ but no regrets at all for sure.

I still I can still become a pilot when,

you know, ~ I can still try to sell water or who knows.

I don't know about a pilot. This is a debate that that we have.

Danian still dreams of getting his pilot's license and I said this is

the the one thing that I forbid him to do.

There's a reason why you can't get life insurance if you have your pilot's license.

So

I'll get a very nice flight simulator,

but I think that's about as far as we'll go with with flying.

Well, Jess, what about you? Do you

ever regret not pursuing your PhD?

No, no, never. You know, you of course at the time it was devastating,

right? Like I really had this one school that I wanted to get into my whole life.

Like I had been working towards this.

I loved science. I worked in rat labs in school,

dissecting rat brains. Like I had done all this work to get into this program.

But you know, looking back, if I wouldn't have gotten rejected from that school.

I wouldn't have joined the corporate world.

If I didn't join the corporate world,

you know, I wouldn't have gotten this experience in recruiting and with HR.

And, you know, especially with this company,

I would have probably never moved to New York City if they hadn't evolved.

I mean, I'd never wanted to live in New York City.

It's just they'd asked me and I was like,

sure, why not? But it's never something that I had thought about before.

So I would have never met Damien if I wouldn't have moved to New York.

Like we wouldn't have.

~ gone on this world tour together,

you know, it all and then the coin flip that ended up bringing us to Poland.

You know, now we're in Denver.

Like we have a family. We have two kids.

Like all of these things. Like if I would have never if I would have gotten into

that PhD program, my life would look very different today.

And I love how things have turned out and I have absolutely zero regrets.

So you know, in the moment, of course things can feel

devastating or really upsetting when life doesn't go the way that you planned,

but you just need to make the most of the options that you have and keep,

you know, moving forward and you never know where that will bring you.

You could never foresee, you know,

that day that you get the rejection letter in the mail from this college,

you know, how that would, you know,

impact and lead you to now having a beautiful family and a wonderful business

and all of this.

you know, incredible life experience of having traveled the world,

like how would I I have ever thought that that one thing would have gotten

me to to where we are today?

man, that's awesome. I know you know,

with every podcast I have to come up with a a title and i there's just so many.

I just listening to your story,

the the risk you've taken, the success you've had,

the the coin flip, the ~ the decisions and how everything has come together,

man, it's just such an incredible story.

so I know you guys bring a lot of really unique experiences,

a lot of unique expertise.

~ like I keep going back to the the lemonade stand you had and the the work that

you put into that. Damien your experience with taking your education

so seriously and growing up in a family that that pushed you like that,

the entrepreneurial spirit, both of your attention to detail,

your commitment to that customer experience and taking care of customers.

If you guys had to boil it down to like one key thing that was

the most important thing that has made you successful,

what do you think it would be?

I I have this phrase, this I don't know if want to call it a life motto

or whatever it may be that, you know,

I really came I don't know if I I probably wasn't the first one that ever said it,

but ~ it's something that I thought of and really ~ resonated with me when

I was in college and it stuck with me until today,

which is never settle for mediocrity.

You know, anything that you do,

you need to do it ~ a hundred and ten percent,

which is

You know, really cliche, of course,

as everyone says, but we really everything that we do,

like we do it fully. Like we never want to be mediocre business owners,

we don't want to be mediocre bosses.

I don't want to be a mediocre wife.

I don't want to be a mediocre mom.

Like I just want to be the absolute best that we can be.

And in order to do that, you have to put the time,

the effort, the blood, the sweat,

the tears, and really like give it your all.

Like I don't want to ever look

Back and be like, I could have done better at that or I could have tried harder.

I mean, we really are focused on,

you know, we want to be the best hospitality company in the United States.

I mean, we don't want to live life halfway,

right? So ~ I think that's something that we has resonated with us,

even like, you know, I think back when we were doing construction,

that like did Damien and I would get in.

So many arguments because we get like,

you an IKEA something that we'd get built and you realize like 75 or

90 percent of the way in that like the thing is flipped the wrong way

and you have to then deconstruct it because you've installed something incorrectly.

And I'm like exhausted at this point and hungry and it's like I'm cold and

I want to go home. And Damien would be like,

no, like we can't.

Do this like mediocre, like we can't set this up.

We have to like take it all apart and then rebuild it so it's done correctly.

And I get pressure. I was fine with

the thing flipped backwards, you know.

But you know, quite deadline ourselves like this needs to be done and ready today.

But yeah But to to perfection,

you know. So just to say, like,

even from the smallest thing of putting together a piece of IKEA furniture,

even though it's hard, even though it's

you're hungry and it's cold and whatever.

It's just like you you gotta do it.

You just gotta suck it up and and do it a hundred percent no matter what.

~ never take a no for final answer

man.

or an answer. There's always a workaround and there's always a solution.

~ NBC's where it takes a lot of creativity and ~

you know you need to really think truly through

How can you how can you go? How can you create yourself a workaround to make half

of it or a part of it working to accomplish your goals?

And that that's very important.

When you build something like this with nothing,

you you need to be able to be solution oriented and I don't know actually should

motivate you to turn it into a maybe or yes.

~ you know, I there's so many examples.

~

by building this place, but as of today with the technology we use,

~ you know, there there's always a workaround and and if there is,

it might take some time, but you need to stick to it and and and work through it.

man. Good stuff and a a great story again.

I'm I just can't believe all the things I'm hearing.

I'm learning a lot from you guys.

I is there an opinion that you once held strongly that you've changed based

on your experiences?

~ good one. yes. you know we have a specific me I have a

s we have a specific mission and I thought I could trust everyone.

I I thought that I could everyone wants to do good.

Everyone wants to be a part of this,

but a lot of motivations are so different from the people you have.

jumping with you in that bandwagon or even assisting you.

And so my opinion has changed a little bit on well more like

before I give too much trust from the first minute we I need to

be a bit more cautious on on on on the end goals.

And the end goals for

The people who we surrender selves are very different.

Some people want all of the money,

some people want the the title,

some people want all of the benefits but not want to work,

right? some people want it all ~ but don't want to deal with responsibilities that

come with it. So I'm giving a broad example here,

but

know as of today we still want to trust people very quickly let's do

it let's we're very motivated ambitious but you know sometimes slow down

and and and and learn how to analyze what really people want

out of this you know and and that's key to surround yourself with

the right people so you can create your dream team

Man, good stuff.

Yeah,

I completely agree with Damien.

I think my default position used to be to trust people.

And now it's a little bit more like you should earn our trust.

We had an experience very early on.

Our our GC had introduced us to a local business owner.

~ and he had a a a float spa concept,

right? So one of those deprivation tanks.

And he our GC had done a lot of construction for this gentleman before.

so introduced us. We had some beers with him,

like, you know, we thought we were like,

you know, two fellow business owners.

And so we were talking to him about our concept and all of these things.

and at his float spot, he had this room that had a sauna and it had a tub in it.

And so we asked him, you know,

we're still doing construction.

Can we come and test our

our beer bath infusions in your tub and like do the sauna and have a beer

in your sauna and and do the bath infusion in your tub and just like

you know test everything out. And he's like,

yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like we think he's being very generous,

right? So we go to his location,

we end up bringing our bath infusion and he's asking questions.

We think that he's just like, you know,

curious.

So we tell him how we make our bath infusions.

We tell him, like, you know, he's asking all these very specific questions,

which we didn't think anything about.

We're like naive, we're in our 20s.

We're just like, this guy's like so,

you know, so friendly. So we ended up telling him all of these things.

And before you know it, we see that he's advertising a beer bath in his

as part of the experience. Fortunately,

he didn't have a liquor license,

so he couldn't drink beer, but he had basically t

taken everything that we told him ~ about the bath infusions for the tubs

and was now marketing this as a a beer bath experience at his spa.

~ and then our GCE come to find out tells us like,

yeah, this is kind of his like MO.

It's something that he calls RD,

rip off and duplicate, that he likes to,

you know, get get ideas from other business owners and then duplicate it.

So, you know, fortunately, nothing came of that.

He ended up closing his float spot because,

you know, he's he's, I think, one of those people that has many ideas

and none of them like, you know,

f fully executed. so at the end it didn't really end up impacting us,

but it made us think like a little more carefully when people are curious,

asking us questions, like wanting to be very friendly with us.

we they have to earn our trust a little before we start telling them

our our secret sauce.

Yeah. Th there's probably very few people that can bring the level

Okay,

of detail and commitment to execution that you guys do.

So competition's probably gonna be light for a while.

No, but you never know.

Someone with deeper pockets can can come and open many of these.

But that's that's what I always tell Damian is you know,

we we put a lot of intention into our ~ the customer journey,

the guest experience, the hospitality aspect that even if someone has a beer

spa and maybe they offer the services cheaper than us,

they're certainly not gonna have a four point nine rating on Google.

and the experience isn't gonna be as good as what we offer.

So, you know, hopefully we have that going for us.

Sounds good. What do you have any tips or tricks for a young entrepreneur that wants

to pursue a dream the way that you guys have?

That that maybe doesn't have an idea yet but knows that they want

to chase that entrepreneural dream.

What tips would you have for them?

Yeah, if you have an idea, stay curious.

Stell your curiosity, really try to dig into industries

and and really don't be afraid to to to look into heaven borrowing stuff,

you know. you know, I think I think it has never been I mean you might hear

be hearing that everywhere now,

but it has never been so easy to start a business.

Of course it has never been so difficult to stay in business.

Let's not forget this.

~ because technology because the the access to capital credit cards all

of that are pretty easy to access if you are responsible right and

if you're curious and if you want if you want to spend the time

to self teach yourself those skills so stay curious the idea will likely come

stay ~ focused stay disciplined entrepreneurship is a marathon

~ so ~ if you have some challenges with discipline,

maybe self-teach yourself on can you wake up every morning at 7 a.m.

and run two mice, right? Or one mice,

just just as those little exercises that really self-teach yourself a lot about it.

And and mainly I think the lo you need to have the taste of the efforts.

You can't have an idea, talk about it and not and and and try to do it without.

Putting a lot of efforts into it.

You know, at the beginning we are working seven days a week,

16 hours a day. Now we have a family,

we need to manage the kids and all of that.

So how do you manage these efforts?

At the beginning, if you're just by yourself,

put as much efforts as possible to make your dream come true.

That's often, you know, the thirst of doing business,

creating ration chip.

cutting deals, it really but it depends on your personality,

being creative, finishing ~ your portfolio.

You need to put as much effort as possible.

And whenever you say, no, I'm gonna do that tomorrow,

no next week, no next month, that's the opportunity you missed to finish it today,

to show to the world that you've done something that you want to

to show and showcase to the world.

And and so the taste of the efforts

the the willingness to suffer through those efforts is very important.

You don't need to suffer physically,

don't get me wrong. It just you know,

it it just it it just ev you need to be you need to be okay with

~ the efforts you're gonna put into this.

I I have three three quick things.

~ the first is make sure that there is a need for this idea in the market.

You know, we hear a lot about people starting businesses out of their passion.

And while passion is certainly important,

you also need to make sure that there is a genuine need for this in the world.

I'll use the example of, you know,

in Denver, we have

A ton of Mexican restaurants and a ton of taco shops in specific.

And, you know, there ~ have been several people that have recently decided

to open up new taco shops because it's something that they're passionate about.

Maybe it's in their, you know,

family history. Their grandmother was Mexican,

or they've, you know, had this one taco recipe that they really loved.

You know, but I can't tell you.

How many times that these taco shops have opened and very quickly closed because

we don't need another taco shop in Denver?

Like we have so many of them already.

So even if it's something that you're really passionate about or you love this taco

recipe and you think that the world is gonna fall in love with it,

like do we really need another one of these right now?

Are you solving something? You know,

we're passionate about hospitality and wellness.

but we also thought through like,

is a beer spa as a social wellness experience something that people need?

And the answer that we came to was yes.

but oftentimes I feel like people follow their passion without really analyzing,

like, is this something that is needed in the market?

And is now the right time to do that.

Mm-hmm.

so that's the first thing. The the second thing is always start with your

MVP or your minimum viable product.

We talked about that a lot when we were starting the spa.

We had all of these big ideas of like for the bath infusions,

we want to we wanted to have an iPad and the guests could say like

how they were feeling that day,

like they were stressed or they this and they really like these scent profiles.

And we would custom blend a bath infusion for their experience that would

be in their tub.

And then we're like, whoa, whoa,

we're getting like really complicated.

We don't even know if people want to bathe in a beer bath to begin with.

Like, let's just have one bath infusion.

That's, you know, that's what they get.

They don't get an option for it.

Like, we're making this way too complex.

And then if it if we see that it works,

we can get feedback from guests and like,

would you like multiple options?

Would you like to curate your own?

And then we can adapt from there,

but like don't get too complex with it.

You know, a at a certain point though,

like a brick and mortar, like you have to do the construction.

So there's only so you can only get so minimal with an Oakwell beer spot,

but especially things like if you're creating some sort of service

or an online-based business or an e-commerce store,

like you don't need to have a hundred SKUs to launch,

like launch with five things, see how it works,

get feedback and expand from there.

So always focus on

on minimal viable product because as entrepreneurs we can often get like

way ahead of ourselves and like have these really big dreams and then

we end up trying to execute too many things at once.

whereas you should just keep it simple at the beginning.

And then my third is just think about who who you want to do this business with.

I don't think any successful business

has done it alone. And so whether that is a friend,

whether that's your spouse, what whether that's a business mentor,

just you're going to need to surround yourself with people that

can provide advice and expertise.

You know, no matter how smart you are,

you're going to need other people to lean on.

Even if it's just for support.

I mean, Dane and I wouldn't be able to,

I don't think that we would ever be able to do this on our own.

you know, we both bring different things to the table.

And when times get tough, it's really important to have someone ~ that

you can lean on and that you can talk to about the struggles.

And especially if you're in a a relationship,

like if you're married or you have a girlfriend,

you're about to like embark on this kind of journey,

like make sure they're as bought in as you are,

because it can really put a strain on the relationship if one person is like.

you know, really crazy into this business and they're spending all their time on it.

And then let's say the other one is still like working a nine to five

and then they're getting frustrated why you're not at home to spend time with them

and all these things. So just make sure that like you and your partner,

your person are on the same page with what you're about to embark on.

man. Yeah, there's some great advice there.

And man, I ~ we might have to have you guys on for a follow up.

Your story deserves a lot more attention.

This is just so cool. I'm so excited for you.

but I want to honor your time and kind of wrap things up here.

So a a question that I ask every guest,

do you guys practice a particular faith tradition?

And if so, how has that affected your journey?

no, we do not practice, or at least I mean,

I speak for both of us here, but we don't practice a specific faith.

You know, I grew up, I was raised Catholic.

I was forced into it at a very young age.

I was forced to go to Catholic school,

you know. So I was going to church once a week with my school,

and then ~ once on Sunday with my family,

and you know, I was very independent.

~ child that wanted to do my own thing.

And so I think being pressured into it at such a young age made me kind

of ~ shy away from it. So so no,

we really don't follow any sort of,

you know, faith or religion. however,

I do believe in in karma and the greater good and,

you know, do unto others as as you would want to have done to yourself,

right? So some of that, of course,

mirrors a lot of things that you'll find in religions.

~

But I think just, you know, do doing good in the community and

and not chasing money, you know,

just wanting to do the right thing and and good things will come to you.

Yeah, I mean my my fa I I believe in a bigger power,

you know, someone watching us ~ up top and and that's personal to me.

I grew up in within ~ three religions,

you know, the most important three religions in a

very mature cultural environment.

so my my I have my own faith and and it's to do good for our team

or family my family and and of course the community around that

are supporting our business. You know it's it's I think it I think

you get the reward. You shouldn't do it for the reward,

but I think when you do good often you get back the goodness you've done.

you've spread for the people that you you've helped along the the the journey.

You know, I I think ~ often people remember what you've done bad

I they don't often remember what you've done good,

but it's better to stay focused on on on you know doing good and that's that's

my own faith.

All right. Well thank you guys.

~ i is there anybody that you'd like to see on this show?

Somebody with a a unique story,

a unique business that you'd like to learn more about?

~ That's a good question. We'd have to think about it,

I think. Get back to you. We're so focused,

we're like oblivious to what is going on in the outside world.

I feel like you know, we listen to business podcasts like how I built this.

yeah.

If you've ever listened to that before with Guy Ross,

like I mean, that got us through our our construction days.

We'd have that on the loudspeaker,

like listening to these people's stories.

But

Man, we're so heads down right now with the business that it's yeah,

we don't we don't really know what's going on much out there.

Yeah. Y you've got enough on your hands with ~ th this blooming business,

a new success, the sacrifice you put in to get there and a growing family,

it sounds like. you guys have your hands full.

So

Yes. It's just the beginning.

Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for giving us the time today.

You you really have an incredible story.

~ it sounds like you have an incredible product.

I'm really looking forward to checking it out myself.

I'm gonna move that up on the priority list.

we'll make sure we get down there to check it out.

And there's just a lot that can be learned from your experience and your story.

So thank you for sharing that with us today.

Thanks so much, Erick. We can't wait to host Yeah,

we can't wait to host you next time you're in Denver.

Wonderful. And thank you guys for joining us here on From the Ground Up Show.

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Until next time, keep grinding.