Bob Zimmerschied – Built the Hard Way: Work Ethic, Faith: Making an Entrepreneur

If you've got the right attitude and you've got integrity, I says

you can take that to the bank and cash it.

You give me a horse, I could break a horse.

You know, I can milk a cow and, you know, and and farm machinery

all my, by the time I was 1213 year old, I was running the

farmhand, you know. Yeah.

So, you know, those were good, good learning seasons.

My dad had a 49 Chevy pickup and that baby what I learned to

drive in. I woke up and went to the

Christmas tree and there was a Pinto cult in the living room

and he had my attention big time.

Every kid has asked for a pony for Christmas.

Not very many of them have actually gotten.

One. Yeah.

And then especially in the living room.

Hey there and welcome to From the Ground Up show the show

where we encourage and inspire the next generation of free

thinking leaders by telling the stories of those that have been

there, done that and are still getting it done.

Building a life that they love with their hearts, their hands

and their hustle. I'm your host, Eric Loden.

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we really appreciate it. If you are on podcast and would

like to see the video version, it is available on YouTube as

well from the ground up show. As you guys probably noticed, we

are in a new studio today. We're pretty excited to have

this up and running and not be sharing another space, but with

that transition, there's been a few adjustments.

We're still figuring things out. So if you guys would have some

patience with me, I know there's a few quirks in the video and I

have some weird focus boxes popping up and stuff.

We'll get that all taken care of over the next week or so.

And we should have a lot better quality audio, better quality

video, and much cooler space. So if you guys would just have

some grace with us this week, we are super excited to welcome you

to the new studio. And this will be our first show

here today. I am really excited to be joined

in our new studio by Bob Zimmershein.

Bob is a local businessman that has owned a number of different

businesses in a number of different fields.

He's a bit of a serial entrepreneur, owning

restaurants, hardware stores and real estate holdings.

Bob is a husband, a father, and a follower of Jesus.

So, Bob, thanks for joining me. Thank you, Erica.

I'm glad to be here, but I'm still very nervous because I

haven't done anything like this. And since I am supposed to be

retired, I've tried to kind of, you know, I got rid of some of

my books and things when I moved.

And so this will be a new experience for me.

Good deal. Well, we're glad to have you

here and we can dive right in. So, Bob, the first thing we

usually do with all guests is just learn a little bit about

you. Can you tell us about your

childhood and life growing up? Well, I'm sure there's some

things that I shouldn't say, but these things that I'm going to

tell you probably are filtered out of many memories and some of

them are not too fresh. I was born into a rancher's

family. I was the first child out of

four, and I was also the first grandchild.

My dad's parents had passed on before I was born, but my mom's

dad and mom were very influential in my life and and

great supporters. And being the first grandchild,

I think I had a bit of sweetness in my relationship with them.

As I say, my folks were ranch. They'd only owned the ranch for

about two years before I came along and back in those days.

Now you a little farther on, when I was about in the 1st

grade, we got electricity at the ranch.

So this goes back a ways. Yeah.

Yeah. The Rea poles in the ground and

get power in there. And that made a big difference

for us kids growing up there. But for for the first six years

or so, I didn't have that advantage.

And it's probably kind of why I ended up choosing the career

path that I was thinking I was on.

But anyway, we raised cattle and we used saddle horses to make

that happen. And one of my first memories of

real, really fond memories was a Christmas.

And I've seen pictures of it, but I can't tell you exactly how

old I was, but I probably am either the five years old or

maybe 6. And Christmas morning I woke up

and went to the Christmas tree and there was a Pinto cult in

the living room and he had my attention big time.

I named him Teddy Bear and he was with me all all the way

through growing up. And and even when I met my wife

and took her to the ranch to meet my parents, I took her for

a ride on Teddy Bear and give her a little cruise across some

of the ranch property with her on Teddy Bear.

And it was so memorable for me. But I enjoyed that, that

particular memory really good, especially as I was thinking

about doing this podcast for you, Eric.

Every kid has asked for a pony for Christmas.

Not very many of them have actually gotten.

One yeah. And then especially in the

living room. So it but and I and think of not

only that, but I think of Christmases and there were

several things in my growing up years that Christmas gifts, it

meant so much and actually kind of started me on a different on

a career path. And so I'd share some of those

with you. One of the ones was a see here.

I'm going to find that of course, teddy bear.

And then I got ABB gun, which was really kind of special.

Most boys love BB guns, but I've got a grandson that has got one

but he is real hesitant to get a hold of it.

But if I get enough time with him, I think we can start making

it work for him. My 4 year old has been.

Begging. OK, yeah, OK, Dad.

And another thing that came along was a microscope.

And I might have been maybe just starting into high school or

something like that when I got the microscope, but I remember a

hatch and shrimp with a microscope and that was so cool

and growing little bacteria and that kind of thing.

You'd go out and pick up a Bale of hay or something like that

and grab the stuff underneath it.

And then you put it in some warm water and, and watch what

happens to it over several days. The other thing, and it is a big

deal in my life and still is, if you were to step into my my Man

cave, you would see I've got a stack of guitars.

And it all started with this Roy Rogers guitar.

And I played that thing when it was still in the box under the

Christmas tree, pretending and pretending.

And finally I got the thing out-of-the-box and after

Christmas and, and I had a teacher come along with, played

the piano. And so he taught me how to play

some chords. And so then that started me on

that path. My youngest sister, my oldest

sister, she was two years younger than she was taking

piano lessons then later on in grade school.

And so we would start jamming a lot.

And so that was one of the things I remember we had lots of

things that my parents did for us and they didn't have a lot of

resources. So my dad, he he worked hard.

My mom was always creative and trying to figure out ways to

bring in some extra money, but they got us kids into 4H, They

got us into two swimming lessons in the Keyhole Reservoir and we

we just had a great growing up season.

And so I got through that childhood and got ready for

grade school. It turns out my first grade

teacher, I thought she was the cutest and loveliest and the

sweetest person I'd met yet. And I still think that, but she

ended up marrying my dad's hired man and so.

But that was after several years and she only taught one year for

me for my first grade year and she's still living.

So she is. She's a sweetheart.

Oh man, oh man. Well, I've known you for a long

time. I did not know that you played

the guitar. You played publicly.

Ever. That's in my past.

There was like, you know, that's interesting.

You had asked me if I still do. I do, I do, but I do with I play

with my sister and I used to play with my best buddy that we

used to jam together and we used to travel a different country, a

different states. We traveled to Montana,

Colorado, Wyoming, South Dakota and played mostly in bars and

dance halls and that kind of thing.

So and then I played some when I was in college too.

And actually, I made enough money to kind of get through

college with that, along with some other things too.

But anyway, you know, it's one of those things I when I got

married, I had a tough, tough call because I'd been playing

and there were so many people in that culture.

If they play music and you start jamming, I was always getting

calls to jam. And so I finally says this is

going to affect my marriage. So I sold everything except my

old basic electric guitar and I still have it.

But then I've upgraded a little bit since then.

Collected. A few.

More Yeah. And I just lost one of my best

man that was in my wedding, and he and I were such good buddies

all the time growing up. We lost him at the veterans

hospital there at Fort Meade 2 summers ago.

He, we, we would jam together. He my sister and I would get

together and had some really great times in those in the last

few years. But I did have to get back into

it and bought some used equipment.

I've got I I can make noise anyway now.

What's your favorite guitar that you've owned?

Have you had any really cool ones?

Oh, yeah, One I have cool is a 335 Gibson.

And I, I found that on on Craigslist, I think it was.

And a guy that had served in Vietnam and his wife and he was

playing in a band when he was in the service and his wife went to

Gibson and said, hey, would you build this guitar for my

husband? And so they said, OK, and they

built him one. And it turned out the quality

control was not where it should be on that guitar.

And so she complained to the company and the CEO of Gibson

sent her a letter and apologized and says we're going to make you

a special guitar for that mess up.

And so I have this special order Gibson that I bought over the

Craigslist and it's sitting there in my man cave and I love

it. It's just very cool.

That's great. And then and then my my wife's

siblings, I discovered that her mother used to play a steel

guitar, a lap steel. And it turns out that it just

kind of got stored away and they wanted me to kind of check it

out. So I got it out and the the

tuning knobs had just completely deteriorated.

They just turned to dust. And it was one of those Don Ho

jabber, you know, from the Hawaiian days when he was

playing on TV. But so I got it refinished and

stuff, but that's not my flavor. I don't do the but I still have

it and you know, somebody will need it someday and I'll figure

out where it should go. But I don't have my old Roy

Rogers guitar anymore. But anyway, after 8th grade they

consolidated the school district where I was because when my mom

was teaching there and my first grade teacher was there, it was

a one room schoolhouse and she taught whatever needed to be

taught in one through 8 grades. OK.

And the year I graduated 8th grade is when they consolidated

and moved all of the country schools into town and they

bussed us so we had to ride 30 miles into town every day on the

bus. So how many of you were there in

that? Well, I think there was about

eight of us, 7:00 or 8:00 depending on, you know, cuz when

I was there, there was a 7th grader, 8th grader and they

moved on. And I remember those guys give

me so much hard time. You know, Elvis Presley was big

in those days and they started teasing me that I was Elvis, you

know, and that I needed to shake, shake around when I was

playing and stuff. So that was kind of weird.

So anyway, but the, the schoolhouse was there and in

fact, my first grade teacher, she bought an old schoolhouse

and moved it over to her place and refinished it and like, and

you know, kind of refurbished it to make it look like it would

have 50 years ago. And it's still standing there

somewhere. But she's gone on her, her ranch

is now it's about 810 miles from where our, our ranch was.

That's over on the edge of the Black Hills, Powder Riverside of

the Black Hills, So. So what was the what was town

that you got bused to? Moorcroft Yeah, yeah.

The I, I didn't know, I mean, I've been around 4H kids and

stuff like that, but we just pretty much played among

ourselves and relatives. And so that was most of my

social with peers until I went to high school.

And that was kind of that was kind of a big step for me.

I, I know that high school was big and seemed awful big and I

was nervous about that too. But I started loving science

projects or science classes didn't of course have physics or

anything like that, but we had science, chemistry and organic

chemistry and of course algebra and trigonometry.

Those were things that I really liked, math and science.

And so it wasn't long before teachers were pulling me and

another one of my classmates to head to the School of Mines in

Rapid City. And so I, I signed up to do

electrical engineering and started off in Rapid City then

there. And the thing that's would it

would have changed my life if they wouldn't have had any 32

beer. I found that and that put a

pretty heavy drag on my school. And I made it two years.

And by that time the Vietnam War was really roaring and they were

drafting people right and left. And my mother, she says you are

not going on, you're not going to get drafted.

Let's go and talk to to the recruiter.

And we went to a National Guard. They're in Spearfish.

And I signed up for the National Guard.

And then I end up staying 7 1/2 years in the National Guard.

And it really helped me financially because weekend

drills, they paid pretty good. And over the years I took my

MOS, the type of skill that I learned was construction and

dynamiting, and I love that C4 and all of those debt cable and

stuff like that. So that was a good gig for me

and I enjoyed it a lot. I'm learning all kinds of new

things today. So did you end up in Vietnam?

No, I didn't. I wanted to go so bad.

And, you know, when I went to the school of mine and one of

the requirements there was to to be in ROTC.

And so I had some, some experience with that, you know,

just the basic drill formations and things and some classes and,

and I like that. OK, that was fun.

And then when I got to boot camp and doing guard duty and stuff

during the middle of the night and stuff, you know, your mind

wanders. And I kept thinking, oh man, I

want to get into this and do my part.

But I got started thinking I'm stuck here, so I just make the

best of it. And it wasn't long before I was

able to, you know, time just moved but by slowly then but it

seems like fast now. But the I got to ride that old

bus home and that was quite a treat.

Riding all the way from Fort Leonard Wood, MO to back to

Moorcroft. That was a real treat looking at

the country and and dreaming about being back home.

So, and that was only, you know, what, four months or something

like that, I had to be in five, maybe six months maybe for the

boot camp and AIT. Anyway, that was another one of

those little gigs and it turned out OK.

You know, I was able to get some income off of it.

And did I mention about the time my dad went to the, and this is

when I was in grade school, he went to an auction and there was

some brown Swiss milk cows and he ended up bringing them home

along with a hand cranked cream separator.

Oh boy. And so that turned out to be a

good thing for the family because it brought in some extra

bucks and we ended up having to ship the cream either on down at

the post office with six miles to the post office.

But we'd take the cream down there and the mailman would pick

it up sometimes. Or the other way was to take it

on the bus with us when we rode to town and the mail bus driver

or the school bus driver would drop it off.

Beans on the table. Yeah, yeah.

But so anyway, my folks really did find ways to make it happen.

After I graduated from high school, my sister and I, of

course, we're playing music. And so we decided we would put

in for a summer job and we ended up looking at dude ranches down

in the Durango, Co area. But one of the ones that really

hooked us was the one up at Dayton and right at the mouth of

there was a dude ranch there. And so she became working in the

kitchen and in the laundry and I become a Wrangler.

And then of course we'd play music for the dudes in the

evening. So that was a really fun, fun

time. The first year I was a Wrangler

and learned about the horses and that.

And so then they hired me back the second year because the

Corel boss, the main, the main guy decided he didn't want to do

that anymore. So they made me the coral boss.

But I, you know, had all experience with Teddy bear and,

you know, lots of horses and 4H and that kind of thing.

And so I knew all 50 head and I could pretty well match the

rider with the horse. And that worked out pretty well.

I only lost one, one time when we were headed back and and

horses, you know, they kind of some of them especially like to

head to the barn. And this whole, this whole

buckskin horse, I had a a young kid on him and we started back

heading and this is up on the foothills of the mountains right

above Dayton. And he wanted to head right,

right home. And that kid and a horse took

over that kid and I had to really hustle to catch him, but

I couldn't catch him until the kid had already got he'd fallen

off. And so I had to go through all

of the well, how bad are you hurt and all of that stuff.

So that was kind of a rough ride right there.

Yeah, yeah, I bet. So that might be a tough one to

explain to the parents when he did that.

Yeah, well, and the parents were probably there, so that was OK,

but but that was one of my worst problems.

The other thing that happened when I was at the dude ranch is

that I was bringing some horses that needed to go to the sail

ring. I was back in the days when you

could sell them for different things besides being used is.

That the the diplomatic way to word.

It, I think so, but as I was driving this truck, it's a

straight truck and I probably had about four or five, six

horses in there. I don't remember how many, but I

was headed to the sale barn in in Sheridan and right there at

ranchester there was a a long driveway and I had kind of a

blind corner for driving out. And darn if this 15 year old kid

didn't have his dad's Jeep, Jeep pickup and he was getting

learning to drive, I guess. And I don't know, he pulled

right out in front of me. And so I had to take the borrow

pit with that truck and those horses took the bumper off of

his Jeep. But the horses, they only one of

them got cut real bad, but it threw me through the windshield

and I got a brain concussion out of it.

And so I don't remember too much about the very accident in

itself, but I woke up in the hospital and through that whole

episode I was OK. Everything came out all right.

I got a settlement out of it and $500.00 so I could buy a 59

Chevy. And that was my first car

because otherwise I wouldn't have had a car.

And so then that was a good experience at the dude ranch,

really. And when the bad things turned

out better. Yeah, yeah.

And so I imagine that was just a summertime job.

It was, yeah. I worked 2 summers there.

And so that was while you were in college, you worked that.

Yeah, yeah, that was well, that kinda takes us up to my time

with the National Guard and that.

And so I wanted to finish school.

There's something in me that is I was just trying to think of

the right word, but I know there is a right word for it, but I I

couldn't remember it. But it's.

I just like to finish things once I start.

And it turns out that was what something was just eating on me.

I got two years under my belt and then I had this interruption

with the National Guard. So I got situated so that I

could go back to school and I end up buying a mobile home in

Laramie. And the idea was to live in part

of it and rent out part of it, so that would help make the

payments. And so my dad cosigned with me

and that was really helpful. And my parents, Oh my gosh, they

were so helpful just all the way to my life.

You know, they're just the best parents you could ask for.

So I started back to school and I worked road construction and I

went to work for the Forest Service some in building roads

up at Ground Hogg Park. And then I worked on the

Interstate when they're building I-80 across there out there by

Qualey Dome. And that was a brutal winter job

I had working on a rock crusher and, and the dust and stuff.

And it just was not a healthy situation.

But I survived it and made some good money and got back to

school and along with all of my other music and stuff like that,

I took a job bartending and at the Country Club.

And it wasn't long before I was managing the Country Club bar.

And so it just worked out for me.

I got in the right time and all of that.

And that was a pretty good job really was.

The clientele were so helpful. Many of them, you know, and my

goodness, you know, you kind of learn to be a counselor when

you're in that business. And a lot of those folks took me

under their wing and just really helped me out as far as like

making my way through school. And in fact, they tried to hire

me. One guy, the guy was managing

the Country Club. He owned a bunch of liquor

stores and they wanted to build a motel.

And so the Holiday Inn in Laramie, if you ever stay there,

they tried to hire me to manage that before I graduated.

And I decided, no, I'm gonna stick with what I'm doing.

And so, and besides that, I was starting to feel like, man, I

need to settle down. Here I was 26 years old and I'd

met the love of my life. And I'll tell you what, God

placed the perfect person in my life when Jen and I got married.

You've heard behind every successful man there's a very

important woman. Well, that is my wife of 54

years now going on, going on 55 here.

Wow. There's not many people that can

say that. Well, it's been a ride, I'll

tell you that. So it's been good.

It's been really good. She backed me in all the

pursuits of my dream to be my own boss.

And you know, I this little session with you, Eric has been

helpful for for me because it's caused me to be a lot more

thankful about what I put her through because she stuck with

me the whole way. And it's amazing.

She had a different point of view on most things than I did.

But you know, the thing that really helped me a lot later on

is that she has this ability and she had that with me.

She could, she could read me and I think if you call it intuition

or something like that and she could just, you know, tell if

there was needed to do this or that.

So she just kind of kept me focused.

But anyway, before we got really organized and of course I, I

talked about, didn't I, that I went to work for the power

company as soon as we got married.

No, I didn't. So maybe.

Not, I don't know if I did or not.

I made these notes and sometimes I kind of lose my focus on this.

Yeah. But anyway, I went to work for

the power company and I love that job.

They give me a company car. They hired me for a special

project. And so I got to be based in a

engineering office in Casper and my job was to travel all through

their territories that they served.

And that was central Wyoming, northern Wyoming.

And and to study what the distribution system was, was

like, you know, in what are the challenges that is going to

happen in these different circuits over the next five

years. And so it was a very interesting

job, but I didn't there too long.

And then pretty soon I realized that this is this job and I was

around the other engineers and I could see the way this is career

was going to go is that they promote you and move you.

They promote you and move you. And so I could see myself

landing in Portland, OR and, or someplace in the West Coast and

that wasn't going to set well with me.

Jan was born in Wyoming. I was born in Wyoming.

Her parents lived in in Pine Bluffs.

And then after we got married, they ended up moving down to

Colorado, Northern Colorado. But my folks were on that ranch.

And I'll tell you, my dad, he lived and breathed that ranch.

It was his baby. And he really, I think wanted, I

know he wanted me to take over that ranch, but I just, I just

had this inclination to make my own way.

And so that's kind of the way I kept pushing.

But when I was with the power company, it wasn't long until I

saw that a promotion thing that was going to make it some place

where I didn't want to live. And my job at the at the dude

ranch, I got attached to the Bighorn Mountains real good and

I did not want to have to leave, leave that part of it.

So even when I was in Casper, I would come up here on weekends a

lot and went into seven brothers and all of that.

So I just thought, I'm not, I'm not going to move too far from

the Bighorns. But and I knew my job with the

power company was not going to be compatible with that, that

plan. But one of the guys that I was

working with, he was big on tracking the stock market and he

made a lot of investments and he was in, I wasn't in the office a

ton of time, but I was probably half of the time.

And he, he was always talking about the stock market and he

got me kind of interested in that.

And so he talked about McDonald's a lot.

And so I started looking at it and Oh yeah, that would be fun.

That's something I could do and be my own boss and sit, decide

where I wanted to be. And so Jan and I, we started

making appointments to investigate different franchises

because I thought, you know, I don't have a background in that.

And if they just give me the the layout, I'll execute.

You know, they got the strategy, I'll execute.

Well, we ended up going to Denver and meeting with the

Sambo's people. I don't know if you remember

Sambo's restaurants. That's before your time.

Probably they didn't survive too long.

But then we met the Village Inn people.

I'd already investigated McDonald's and Burger King and

goodness sakes, back in those days, Eric, you still had to

have $1,000,000 net worth to get the door open.

And so I can see that just wasn't going to work.

And Jan and I, we were thrifty. Our marriage was going great,

but we lived off of our cash and envelopes, you know, so we knew

where everything was going and how much it was going to be so.

Ramsey would be proud. And even I was participating in

the the power company's stock purchases and stuff like that.

But anyway, that was a little exposure that later on turned

into something I was very interested in.

So was that the the first time you kind of got a inclination to

become self-employed? Well, it was kind of a process

there. You know what happened?

I realized that I wasn't going to get to live where I wanted

to. There was a meeting.

I was in a meeting. There was a bunch of, I say

bunch, There was probably half a dozen local managers.

And there were the, the guys that run the, the retail office,

you know, in the markets. And so they were having a

meeting and they started talking about different things.

And they, the thing that really hit me and I don't know, I think

it's God's way of just cracking the door open or something.

And they were talking about hiring engineers.

And, you know, I thought I was a hotshot.

I'll just be honest. I, you know, God had a way of

humbling me on many occasions. But at that time, and what

happened is I got this gut feeling that I was a commodity.

And if they needed an engineer, all they got to do is just put

one on the budget and let him go.

And so it wasn't something that I felt like I had any say in the

way things would go or anything. So that that was a kind of an

inkling there. I'll never forget that.

That wasn't your plan. I mean, when you guys first got

married and you took the job at the power company, you didn't

have a plan to start your own business at that point in time?

I didn't, and. But I didn't know I needed to,

you know? But as we went along, it wasn't

very long until I could see the bureaucracy in a big company.

Yeah. And it's who you know and what

they need. And so I just felt more like a

pond, I guess. And so that made me really start

looking. And then, of course, him talking

about McDonald's and then me wanting to look at in the

franchises and stuff like that. So and and lo and behold, one

day I was just looking through the classifieds in Casper paper.

Here's a little A&W root beer stand in Buffalo, OK.

And of course I'd been on the Big Horns and up there inside.

Yeah, we got to go look at this. So we bought this little 700

square foot concrete building and on leased ground and we had

to mortgage everything we had. I, I felt like we had to be all

in on this. And so I met a banker on Sunday

afternoon and he financed us for it.

And where we go, we, we bought it at the end of the season and

then we struggled all, I went all through everything, used my

skills to get the equipment up to snuff and all of that during

the winter. And we would come up to Buffalo

and we were so, so Scotch. We didn't stay in a motel.

We actually slept in the restaurant.

In course there was no heat there or anything.

So we would bring blankets and just sleep in the restaurant

while we were working on the weekends.

This is always on the weekend. And then we actually, we had to

go, but we needed to, Jen was in on us.

I mean, bless her heart. We ended up staying in the

Occidental one night and that that was pretty Uptown really.

And we had to share a bathroom. But that's how we got us, got

started. And that was that was an

experience for sure. OK.

So it was not open during that winter.

You just spent the weekends through the winter getting it.

Getting it ready. Need to go.

And then that next summer launched and started going.

Did you? Did you quit your job to come

run? I did.

And Jan had been putting in for a teacher's job, and so she

ended up having to quit her job down there.

And, and then we had a mobile home that I had bought in

Laramie. And so I moved it to Casper and

then we moved it to Buffalo. And then so we were on a

shoestring big time, you know, Yeah.

But we we made it, made the leap.

All of the guys in the engineering department, so many

of them, I say I always wanted to go on my own.

I always wanted to. But she says just takes guts.

And, you know, I don't know if it takes guts or grit or what,

but we did it. We did it.

We were on a shoestring, seriously undercapitalized, but

the banker liked us. And that performed a really long

term relationship with the bank because I realized that you

really had to have a good banker if you're starting out.

And jeez, I was 26 years old, you know, so that I didn't have

much. And I drove Volkswagens and, you

know, Penny pinched the miles out of that thing as best I

could. So what?

What were those early years like?

Did that first season prove productive?

What did it take off pretty well or?

It was, it was awesome. We made one of the things that

happened in there and I don't remember exactly I had to go to

because of the franchise requirements.

I had to go to a training school in California and I think I did

that the second year and we'd go to two weeks Northwest School in

Santa Monica. And that was a pretty big step.

But the first year we just kind of shoestringed it through and

we, I, I, I went up and, and worked in, just observed the

kitchen operation before they closed it that first year.

And so I kind of knew what was going on, but I had never cooked

a hamburger like that, You know, I didn't know how to make some

root beer and I didn't know what a soft serve machine looked

like. That first year was great.

And then especially when we when he opened it and it's busy and

man, the cash register was ringing and we had, we had cash

and it accumulated. And it's because it was a seven

day deal, you know, but, and so at the end of the first year, we

were feeling pretty positive about it.

We ended up looking for some property to build a house.

And so at the end of our second year, then we bought a property

and got Dave Ennis to build the house for us.

And, and during that time we ended up going to the Wesleyan

Church and so that we were living next door to a couple

that was going to the church and they invited US1 Sunday.

So we ended up going there and liking it.

Jan grew up under the Missouri Senate Lutheran Churches, and so

it's kind of a freewheeling feeling for her.

But I did and it turned out that all, we had so much time, so

many good times with A&W and, and the Sunday school program

there at the Westland Church. We'd run for motions.

You know, you bring a guest, you get a free hamburger and stuff

like that. So it was just fun.

Yeah, yeah, that sounds great. But we did we the second year

after the first year we closed and then I begin plans for

adding on. And so we doubled the size of

the building and this is on leased, leased land, you know,

so the lease was cheap, but still any investment we made

into it was, you know, you're not going to get a return on it.

So we, we double the size in it. And you know, Eric, the thing

that is, is just makes me shudder.

We were not on, on City Ground there.

We were in the county and we had, we had water from the city.

We had a septic tank and so the first thing you know, you've got

lots of water coming in with water cooled compressors and all

that kind of stuff. And the septic tank was not

designed for that at all. So I knew the clock was ticking,

that my survival in that location was going to have to

have to change. So that's when I started

planning to buy that property next to us and I had to figure

out how we were going to get sewer and water into that

because that was in the city, but without city water and

sewer. And, and as a developer, I guess

I had to do the heavy lift in there.

And that was a big, big chunk because we had to follow up down

by the county shop and go all the way across the highway into

the north side of 16 right there.

Oh yeah. So that was a chore, but and the

agreement the City made with me, it says, OK, if anybody hooks

onto it down the road, then we can and get a proration and

reimburse yourself. But I never saw anything from

that. But that's just well, at least

we got the store, got the new new store open and that was a

that was a stretch. And it was interesting when I

listened to your dad talking about the roofing job on that

building. That was just awesome.

The and that roof is still serviceable.

I know it is. That was great.

That hypalon is good stuff, I can tell you.

It is we often have joked that maybe we made a mistake

installing too good of a product here 41 years and just in the

last few years I've started to get to redo some of his earliest

no. Well, it's a it was a really

good and so I didn't know it was his first project commercial.

I didn't know that and it didn't matter.

I, I was way in over my head, you know, but the thing that

really helped me build that building, and I'm not sure if I

could have got it done otherwise, was when I was

dreaming about all of this, buying the property and building

this store, I met Steve Gonzali and Marge and he was Steve.

They had just moved from Oregon. His parents, he had taken over

and run a drive in there and he was building his house and when

he, he got and he says, when I get this house done, how about

if I come and help you build that restaurant?

I said, oh, that would be great. And so that helped me

enormously. And so the between Steve and I,

we got that thing built and pretty good time and I, I know

we planned it all. I one of the things to a big

mistake. I didn't know what the, the soil

conditions were underneath that building.

Turns out it's an old River bottle.

And there's still a lot of river in it.

And so we had the track hoe out there and we're going to build

a, a basement under that for the, for the walk in coolers.

Well, it turns out that the track hoe would pick up the

rocks and stuff and the water would just follow the thing

right up. So there was a huge amount of

water there. So that through that plant we

had to redesign the building then because we had to move the

walk in cooler upstairs. Yeah.

And so this is year during year 4.

This would be be probably year 4.

Oh man, so that's. That was in a little later.

Now that was 19, we in 78, that's when it was.

So yeah, it's probably year three, maybe year 4.

Yeah, so it it did take off pretty quick.

And I had a good. Everything you have into it the

first year and build a house the second year and expand the

business the third year. Well, I had a good banker.

Yeah. I mean, and that's, you know, I

never was afraid of too much debt because I felt like I was

going to make it pay, you know, I just knew I could do it.

I just had the confidence in it, you know.

And one of the things that happened when Steve and I was

getting started working together is that we found out about Zig

Ziglar. And I have to give a shout out

to him because he changed my philosophy, you know, and when

you're in your late 20s and you see early 30s, it's kind of hard

to, I mean, your head gets kind of hard, you know, I was kind of

hard headed, but I found out about him and I read his book to

see You at the top. And, and I bought and went to

several of these seminar and I bought his cassette tape stuff.

And I brought that with me. How to stay motivated.

And I'm not kidding you, this inspired me and it even my mom

suffered from asthma. And I bought one of these for my

mom and it really gave her a big lift just to hear that, hear

that encouragement and hear it often, you know, it's just one

of those things. And that was kind of his, his

theory, You know, you, you need motivation and you, it's like

bathing. You have to have it off, off it.

Motivation. That's good.

But one of the things in this package here you get about how

to live longer and love it. And he talks about running.

Kenneth Cooper was the doctor that talked about that.

And he would, when Ziegler had these seminars, then he would

talk about staying in shape or getting in shape and, and what

your body needed to do to do what God designed it to.

And so Ziegler was way overweight and he started

running. And his story is a success story

for running. And but I listened to Cooper,

and I'm not kidding you, I decided, OK, I'm going to start

running. And so that was a big part of

my, I think, success because it gave me a way to deal with

stress, frustration and patience.

And those were some things that I really had to work on thanks

to him. And, you know, there were so

just like him, there are so many books that I would and I used

that to train my managers. You know, the the I'd take a

book and then I would go through and then I would make it Bacon,

make an outline, and then I would assign chapters so that

they could start reading about it.

And I just think that those things really helped me so many

times. I couldn't have done it without

it, no question. You might have a hard time

finding a way to play those Zig Ziglar tapes now.

I've got some. I got some boom boxes and I take

the batteries out so that they don't get all coded.

But good deal. But yeah.

And one of the things I was gonna tell you about when I was

in Airme going to going back to college, I signed up to be to

get a certificate and to become trained in television repair,

OK. And so I worked on, I got a job,

they're a part time job working for the appliance store there

and fixing TV's and fixing 8 track take decks.

I'll tell you those things were a nightmare for people because

they would work good when they're new, but they didn't

last very long. So I got to work on those things

a lot. There's a reason they were only

on the scene for a that's. Right.

That's right. Man, well you had quite the

varied background before you ever started in business then

doing engineering, construction, dude ranch ranching, electronics

repair. Is there any industry that you

didn't work in and tell you a story?

I'm sure there is. I stayed away from the medical

field, I can tell you that. It seems like about the only

thing you hadn't done by the time you started a restaurant

was food. Yeah, that's exactly right.

You give me a horse, I could break a horse.

You know, I can milk a cow and and farm machinery.

By the time I was 1213 year old, I was running a farm handy, you

know, those were good, good learning seasons.

My dad had a 49 Chevy pickup and that baby what I learned to

drive in and of course it may be fence post didn't get out of the

way quite a time but a few times but but it was a great a great

time to grow up. I was just blessed, that's all.

The rest of it. Options were everywhere.

Opportunities. Do you think there are

opportunities for a young person today as there were for you back

then? I think so, you know, over the

years we had lots of teenagers and going back to the A&W, we

had so many young people work for us and they were just great

kids, great kids. And then of course, so we were

in it long enough that we ended up having their their kids work

for us too. But yeah, I think one of the

things that was such a big thing and it even worked for my kids.

And I think that one of the things that I ran across and it

was just blessed my heart to remember, you know, my son had

plenty of difficulties in making his transition.

And I, I like, and he picked up some of that for me because I'm

a slow learner. And I just had to, I was so

curious about everything. But this little thing here about

attitude, Charles Swindoll had that.

And I put that in, in all of my store manuals.

I shared it with everybody that worked for me because nothing is

more important than your attitude.

And I think if you go at life with an attitude of, hey, I'm

here, I'll do whatever that it's going to work for you.

I used to tell kids that if you've got the right attitude

and you've got integrity, I says you can take that to the bank

and cash it because it's so I really feel that that's still

that would still work. I agree.

I think the opportunity might look different today, but man

that the industries that are opening up and I think I wasn't

there. So I can't speak to the your

generation, but it seems like my generation is lacking more of

those people that have creativity, have a drive, have

that integrity and want to get out and do something themselves

and make it. And so I think somebody that

takes a little bit of integrity, creativity and hard work and the

the industries, the opportunities that are available

right now are. Limitless and you could you get

a little grit when you got if there's something you want to

do, you're able to push through the and you know, running.

And that's a great analogy because when you're in a race

that you've prepared for and you get there and you want to beat

your time and you know, you're not running against anybody

else, you're running against yourself.

You got to develop that grit to push through those hard times.

I listened to one of your podcasts about the your relative

in Sheridan that's in the on the police force there Sheriff's

Office. You know, it takes grit to get

through those things. And I can remember running in, I

ran AI, ran AI, ran a lot. I challenged myself to run 1000

miles in a year and I remember that.

And then I challenged myself to run 100 miles a month, you know,

So, you know, those things you got to push to get, but you have

to figure out a way to motivate yourself and it going back to

the restaurant, you know, keeping track of what's going

on. That was really important to me.

I didn't know how important it was to know to have the right

people at the right time. And if you track your sales on

the hour, and I learned that at A&W training school, that was

one of the things that say, you know, you make your schedule,

you forecast your sales and then keep track of that because it's

so amazing. And this worked in Ace Hardware

too. And Coast to Coast is your

things that happened on a yearly cycle.

It's just amazing how they just keep happening and you think,

how do people they just follow the same rhythm and that works.

So it's important to keep track of what's happening now so that

you can put back on a year and anticipate because that's the

whole clue. I mean, you got to have the

stuff in the on the shelf and everything so that you can

deliver. Yeah, yeah.

Well, would, would you mind right reading that quote?

Oh. I would love to.

This is this is just. The longer I live, the more I

realize the impact of attitude on life.

Attitude to me is more important than facts.

It is more important than the past, than the education, than

money, than circumstances, then failures, than successes, than

what other people think or say or do.

It's more important than appearance in this or skill.

It will make or break a company, a church, a home.

The remarkable thing is that we have a choice every day

regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day.

We cannot change our past. We cannot change the fact that

people will act in a certain way.

We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play

the one string we have and that is attitude.

I'm convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I

react to it. And so it is with you.

We are in charge of our attitudes.

Charles Swindoll. That's good.

I tell you, I use that so many times and to be honest with you,

I thought where did I leave that coming up with this?

But man, I go to my computer and start looking at that.

And I used, I used to send that almost every paycheck.

And of course, I told you before, we've been on payroll

for 50 years. Every two weeks.

We've done payroll. And so, so many times I've put

in stuff like that in every paycheck.

Just, you know, like Ziegler says, you know, you got to have

motivation and you got to have it regularly.

So I've heard said that you're not the CEO, you're the CRO, the

chief repeating officer. That's exactly right.

About 50% of your job as a leader in a small business is

repeating yourself. Yeah, that's exactly right.

You know, and one of the other things that I, before we got

into the hardware business is I started teaching Sunday school

and teaching adult Sunday school.

And that really challenged me because you're talking to peers,

you know, and, but it was God used that to help me develop so

much confidence and like in staff meetings and just

encouraging my crew and that. So that was a blessing, really.

Yeah. And then the pastors along the

way, you know, goodness sake, they're great.

Awesome. Well, you've kind of brought us

up through A&W and you just mentioned a couple of hardware

stores that you owned. Can you tell us the the

transitions that you made through the the various

businesses you've owned? I know there's quite a list

there. Actually, before we leave the A

and WI just have to give a shout out to Steve and Marge Gonzali

because without their help, I would have never been able to

succeed at that restaurant. But after we built that, we were

able to compete on an level with the rest of the ANWS.

And there's something I learned in just getting ready for this

time with you that I want to share because it's just so it's,

it's so fundamental, I think in America and it goes like this.

After we built that store the first year, we received the

regional A&W top recognition out of all of the A&W's in the

country. And at one time there was 2200

in in the States. You know, Canada has had a

number of A&W's and it's a kind of a separate organization.

But we got the national Operator of the Year award in May of 1991

of 81. And so that that was just, I

wasn't expecting it and it was just one of those things that

they recognize how much we had done.

We had went from sales of about 70,000 a year.

That was our annual take to sales of almost half a million

and then we did that in whatever it was five years or something

like that, we got we recognized for that.

That was that was a real bonus. But the thing that I didn't know

and I just discovered this is that the CEO of A&W spoke at

that convention where and it was in Reno, I think.

And this is the information that he shared.

And this is just as important now I think as it was back then

is to realize that we are on a a very changing world around us.

I mean, I talked about having electricity in my house when I

was six years old and not having it before that.

But this is how it was in the beginning of the 80th, in the

80's, the average American is 30 years old.

But the forecast, the forecast for the decade of 80's, the

teens, the teen segment in our population will decrease by 17%.

The 25 to 34 year old segment of our population will increase by

19%. The 35 to 44 year old will

increase by an astounding 51%. Those over 65 will increase by

23%. So that that was the forecast in

the early part of in 1980. And the other thing that

happened is that over 1,000,000 working women will enter the

workforce and average household income will increase by 70%.

Those were huge forecasts of change and I it blew right past

me. I have no clue.

If I'd have paid attention to that, I would have had a much

more successful financial experience.

OK, what would you have done differently?

I think being aware, it's like, I'm not sure exactly the things

I would have done, but I there's another thing that I would have

done when I bought the Coast to Coast store and that goes on

with my story here. Let me just tell you a little

bit about that. The American consumer was on the

move in the 80s. I think that the American

consumer is still on the move. But what happened in in 1980 was

that I had been shopping at the Coast to Coast store.

In fact, I was there all the time because I was building and

doing stuff, you know, and so I realized that the folks that

owned that we're getting close to retirement.

And so Steve told me, he says, why don't you check in with them

and see if that place is for sale?

And so I did and I talked to Glenn, the store owner, and he

and I said, would you be thinking about selling anytime?

And he said, well, you're the seventh guy to ask me that.

So it was not just my observation.

So anyway, I said, well, Glenn, I think I'm the right guy and I

want to be the guy. And so I visited with him and

and he felt like I was the right guy.

So the problem was, and this is what I would have changed and

and realized is I had to pay 18% interest when I bought the coast

to coast store. Now that is insane.

Insane. Talk about shoot yourself in the

foot. I mean, that could wound you.

My generation is complaining about four and 5% exactly. 18% I

don't know how I survived, I really don't.

But anyway, that's what happened.

And so even though it was a very foolish thing for me to do, I

just did it. And that at that particular time

in my life, I was learning to do spreadsheets and cash flow and

all of that stuff. And I did it by hand, you know,

on columnar pads. But then the small personal

computer was coming along. And so I started learning how to

do that. And one of the early programs

and I talked with my neighbors that owned the grocery store,

the Dobbins, and so they were into learning BPI and some of

these early accounting programs and things.

So I knew all about that because I was doing it and X123 Lotus

and Excel spreadsheets and stuff.

I mean, that was all later, but anyway that I had to really

adapt constantly to the changing where I was at and certainly

running two stores, different stores, same market, but

different stores that required a lot of innovation on my part.

And I learned it from Peter Drucker and all these guys,

Henry Cloud and Oh my gosh, there were so many of those.

I brought a list of them here too.

So I, I resurrected some of those books just because they

were so important to me. And I just used one of them that

comes to my mind Steve got for me.

And it's called the 13 Fatal Errors Managers Make and how to

avoid them. And now that that book, I broke

that into pieces and I used it. Hundreds of times teaching

people how to work in my store. And the deal was, is it?

It's kind of like you tell somebody to go paint the barn

red, but there's a million colors of red, you know, what do

you mean? So that's, that's a trick.

Now that's where I can say running was my release from

frustration and just kept me centered.

Really. If I hadn't, if I hadn't started

running, I don't think I would have survived.

I really don't. So you were running A&W and

Coast to Coast at the same time? At the same time, yeah.

And I let Steve run the A&W and then I learned the coast to

coast because it was the same process.

I had to learn how to do that stuff, you know?

Yeah. How long did you have both

stores? Long time.

But the A&W, we ended up converting to a Hardee's and I

think that might have been in, in the late 80s.

And part of the reason was I felt like we were going to have

some serious competition and I wasn't prepared for that.

I'd done some investigating and, and I felt like our market was

such that we could it would support a fast food breakfast.

And so I really leaned into that and that's why I ended up going

with the Hardee's. And that was kind of a struggle.

That was one of my biggest mistakes that I have ever made

and was choosing to remodel the A&W into a Hardee's.

And the reason why it was something I did not understand

was my customer base. It's a totally different one,

not totally, but it's a different customer base.

And so I almost had to rebuild all of my customers and it was

hard. They had a very complicated

system. And as you can tell, the one

that we have now is closed. And I mean it just, it takes a

big market to support those guys.

And, and they're complicated, way more difficult than A&W was

B and there's just was A, it's a complex menu you have a lot of

and, and the other thing is to the franchise, they just nail

you for everything. They nail you for the franchise

fee and then you got to pay, you got to pay the royalty and

you're supposed to get, and then you have to, they nail you for

advertising because they want to do all of this.

That's why they see the whole big picture that you're going to

start supporting the whole chain.

And it's, it's a, it's tough, really tough.

And so I'm not surprised that the folks and what happened is

kind of like in the ranching business too.

And I hate to say this, but I see small ranches turn into

bigger ranches and bigger ranches and bigger ranches.

And and theoretically, I guess it's for productivity, you're

going to get more productivity, but it's a, it changes the

landscape constantly when that's happening.

Yeah. So but it's just a way America

works, I guess. You know, you always want to get

bigger. And I'm not so sure.

And I learned that bigger isn't always better.

You know, it depends on personality.

How serious you are about delivering the very best you can

because you're going to. You just can't scale up as easy

as it sounds. You know, you hear about all

these mergers and stuff like that, but it's tough in a small

business. It's tough.

Especially small communities, yes, trust with small businesses

that the new big thing that that doesn't always transfer.

Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah.

So what was it that caused you to decide to sell what then

became Hardee's and focused specifically on the hardware

store? Well, I could tell the longevity

of the hardware store was better, although there were some

really difficult times. I tell you, there was times the

Coast to Coast store is a Co-op and there's a difference between

Co-op and a franchise. As a Co-op, you had to buy stock

in the company to take the benefits that they had to offer,

for example, like the warehouses and deliveries and and even the

marketing and that kind of thing.

And Coast to Coast had a great philosophy.

They wanted to be very customer oriented.

And when the Menards and when the home depots and the Lowe's

and all of those big boxes started becoming a thing, the

small operators started getting panicky because this was going

to take take away their their store.

And so they convinced the coast to Coast group was a sitting and

and they had merged over the years with several other small

chains. And so it was not something new.

But when the the big push was for true value, which was a much

bigger chain or bigger organization, bigger Co-op than

what ours was, they convinced this coast to coast, we all had

to vote, but they carried the vote.

So we ended up merging with true value.

And there's two different philosophies and two different

accounting systems, two different ordering system.

Everything's different. And you'd have this situation

where you'd have a true value store on one side of the street

and a coast to coast on the other side.

And that just didn't work very good.

So I don't know, let's see here. Well, coast to coast was a

great, great enterprise for quite a few years.

But then when that all started happening, I think that was

about in the, in the late 80s and we, they called the new art

of true value true serve. And it just the, I couldn't, the

merchandise was poor. How can you sell oranges that

are not fresh and good to eat? The duct tape that we used to

get from True Serve, it was junk, just junk.

And how can you even go to work and try to sell stuff like that

because it reflects on you. Oh, anyway, I could see the

trouble. And Ace was out there, Totally

different company, but they came knocking on my door and they

says come join Ace. And I said, oh, you know,

because one of the things that I always did when I was in the

restaurant is loyalty is a real important factor.

I like a loyalty with my team and I like to stay loyal to.

And there's got to be a good reason to not be loyal.

So they convinced me that they wanted me to listen to their

program so a lot. And I got to back up here a

little bit because along the way I decided that we I needed

something to do when I sold out the business and this is a long

time ago. And so I said I'm going to

invest in the stock market. And so I but I've got interested

in AIC, which is a National Association of investment clubs

and they had a philosophy and provided training and software

and that. So I talked to a number of

people and we got an investment club going.

And so we had some software we used to evaluate the quality of

enterprise. And with ACE, I plugged their

numbers in. I was so impressed.

I says, OK, tell me what you got.

So they said, we'll take you to Orlando and put you up, you and

your wife, and all you have to do is just listen to our

program. So I did that.

I was there for maybe 30 minutes and I was convinced in my mind

that this was the direction I should go.

Jan wasn't even, I mean, we were on the ropes.

I was so nearly bankrupt that it was it was not.

I didn't have anything. I hadn't mortgaged everything I

had. So I went back later for lunch

with Jan and I said, honey, we got to do it.

So Ace came in and they saved my hardware business.

They really did. They bought all my paint because

you, I mean, the paint is very specific for whatever you have

and you got the stuff. And if you can't use what you

got, what are you going to do? Just pour that down the drain,

you know? So that was a hassle.

But anyway, Ace said we'll buy your paint.

And they'd already taken us to Orlando and it was on Mother's

Day weekend. I will never forget that that

Omni hotel put on a spread gin and I had never seen before.

My gosh, it was beautiful. So but we I came back and I had

a staff meeting. I told the kids, all of them,

the kids, all of my team at the Coast to Coast store.

I says I got some good news and I got some bad news.

I says the bad news is that we're going to get a divorce and

they says we're going to divorce true serve and we're going to

join and get married to ace and that's the good news.

And so they came in with a team and repriced everything or re

tagged everything in the store when they could they could

didn't have exact matches on a lot of it because they didn't

have junk. They had quality stuff and

that's what it takes. You can't make a living selling

junk. That's just all there is to it.

But yeah. And that's when I learned in

retail it's like a three legged stool.

You got to have service, quality and price.

You cannot be best in any one of those things.

You got to be best in two. You can't be best in all.

That's the right words. So and that's kind of the way it

was. We had quality and we had

service. And so we, we had to charge

whatever it took and you know, and listen to some of your

podcasts and roofing. I mean, that's exactly the, the

way you, you operate. You had to have quality and

quality gets you it gives you survival.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good point.

I hadn't thought about that. That's kind of been our approach

to businesses, quality and service, and if you want quality

and service, you gotta be willing to pay a little bit

more. Well, it's gonna pay you off in

the long run. Yeah, and if you want the lowest

price, you're gonna give up either quality or service.

Yep, Yep, exactly right. Yeah, yeah.

That's a good way to look at it. So.

But I learned that through the time with Ace Hardware.

You know what was kind of interesting to me at least, was

the CEO of Coast to Coast. Of course, when the merger

happened, they booted him, he was gone and then it wasn't too

long and when I went to ACE, he was already AVP at ACE and he

was such a great guy all. And then he went on to become

CEO of Ace Hardware. OK, yeah.

So you're working with the same people?

Working, yeah. They had the philosophy, you

know, and the philosophy really is, is that we are there to

serve the customer. When you buy something, we've

got your back, you know, because if and what we had to, what Ace

could do is then make the connection all the way back to

the person that made it, you know, the manufacturer and in

the distributor and stuff. So we, we were in A to the

customer. So the customer was in the link

in the circle of products. And so it was when you went,

when you switched from coast to coast to Ace and went all in on

ACE, that's when you sold parties and focus solely on

building an Ace Hardware. No, we switched at the existing

store we had, which was the old Safeway store where Rewrite is

now. And so that's where we switched.

After we bought Coast to Coast, we expanded Coast to Coast.

We, I rented the building from Glenn, but I saw a building

across the street that was bigger and so I started working

with it and he wanted to rent it to me.

I said I don't want to be under the thumb of a landlord.

So I said you got to sell it to me.

So I ended up buying the thing and of course he had to say I

want the caveat here is you got to buy or he said I'll buy it.

You put it up. It's got to have a placard on

the front of the building because it belongs to that.

It started out from his mother, you know.

So I think if you go down on Main Street and look at Cross,

you'll see that placard, that bronze things.

It's this is the never building or something like that.

OK, so at what point was it that you decided you needed to be

done with Hardee's? Well, I wanted to build a new

store. I wanted to build a new a store.

Yeah, yeah, OK. I wanted to build an Ace

Hardware store and I, I just, I tried to do it downtown.

I really wanted to do it downtown because I wanted to

support the downtown merchants and, and that, but I tried to

buy buildings next to me and that just was really cost

prohibitive. And so I ended up, I said, but

I'm, I'm not doing it until I get rid of the restaurant.

And so, Eric, it probably took me 10 years to get rid of the

restaurant. Really.

Yeah. And so that's one of the things,

and I know one of the things on your questions is and what

advice do you have for getting rid of sorry anyway, I knew I

knew I had to get rid of that. And so my advice is it can take

longer and probably have to give more retail more up on your

price than you want. There's just not that many

buyers out there. Depends on what it is, you know,

I know. But if you don't have a really

good, if you don't have a good profit margin and that was a

problem with that, it's, it's hard to sell.

It's just like trading horses. If you got a bad horse, you

don't want it, well, you got to take a hit.

He's only going to live so long and at some point you're going

to have to put him down and you can't sell it.

I actually bought a horse that should have been put down and so

I took it back and got my money back, but it took some doing.

So were you able to get what you wanted to out of the store, or

did you have to give up quite a bit on price when you finally

sold it? But the Hardee's, the Hardee's,

I was willing to take about whatever I could get.

And so I got pretty much what I wanted.

But it was a struggle, you know, I had to, I still owed on it,

you know, so I didn't have a lot of cash to take out, take out.

Gotcha. But it was more, and it would

have been an OK kind of a business for somebody who wanted

to run it themselves, but you couldn't afford to hire a

manager and run it. I think that's a trend I see a

lot in the small town communities that we live in is,

you know, the people that own a lot of the businesses downtown,

rather than owning a job, they own their business.

They cannot pay themselves to run it and also pull a profit.

They either work for free and make a profit, or they pay

themselves and the business breaks even and they put them in

a tough spot when they're ready to exit.

That's right. Move on because there's there's

not a lot there to sell. Right.

I was basically just running it to train managers, you know,

and, and I have some great people working for me.

I love the people. Oh, that was one thing.

You got to love people if you're going to do this kind of stuff.

Yeah, well, that is very evident with you.

You've always been very outgoing and and just love people and

cared for people and really poured into people, even those

that don't work for you. Yeah, well, and it turns out,

you know, I still go back to Ziegler.

You know, you have to, you have to be friendly and you have to

look friendly. That.

And that was in my handbook. I said if you got somebody that

walks within 1015 feet of you, you've got to, you got to

recognize them and speak to him. Yeah.

And and you got to look friendly, you know.

So that's not always easy to do, but you got to do it.

I'm not sure I would be cut out for that business.

So yeah, we've talked about you had a lot of different jobs,

careers. You worked in engineering,

construction, ranching, food ranching.

You've run two different restaurants, number of hardware

stores in different locations. What was the most difficult

thing you faced in your various careers and various businesses?

Well, I had a lot of them, so it'd be a little hard to sort

out which was the most difficult.

Oh, I go back to the thought occurred to me about the A&W.

When we first started, it was just a that we just got going.

We went from a little 700 square foot building and into a 3000

foot building and I had this vision of a nice drive in

restaurant with the canopy. You pulled in under the canopy,

you had the the menu there. You could order from your car,

we'd bring it out to you. It wasn't very long where there

was a virus going on or something and all of a sudden a

lot of the teenagers got sick and so we didn't have the staff

to deliver the food out to the cars.

So I had this beautiful canopy. I don't know how many we go see

how many car canopy. It was probably, I don't know,

20, maybe 1816. I decided to tear it down and so

I ended up giving it to my dad and he built a nice big machine

shed out of it. That was one of the toughest

things I decided to do. I just, it just built the thing

and then have to tear down and start a whole different

direction and go to the drive through window.

And because we had the foresight to put a drive through window

in, but that's when we went total drive through.

So that was one of the toughest ones.

There were some other really tough ones, you know, letting

people go that didn't need to be there.

That was a tough situation, always hard.

But I enjoyed listening to some of your podcasts from before and

you'd look out for those that are even not fit for where they

are in your organization, but to do it to help them out in in a

sense, you know, encourage them to go this direction, a

different direction. Yeah, yeah.

I think that's something that helped me a lot.

There is somebody that's not successful in your organization,

they're not magically going to become successful.

And so, you know, nobody likes to be underperforming.

Nobody likes to always be criticized or kind of, you know,

under the gun. And so limping them along, you

know, there might be another organization, another job,

another industry where they could be very successful.

It might be the opportunity for a lesson to be learned along the

way. And so by keeping somebody that

you know is never going to be a fit, it's actually a detriment

to them. It is.

And you're just increasing frustration all around.

You are. And that that was a hard thing

for me to get. Yeah.

It's. It's a hard thing to do, to let

someone know that they don't fit in the job and are gonna have to

find somewhere else to go. And man, I'd always look for any

opportunity I had to do anything other than that, trying to put

them in a different job. Give them some training, talk to

them, remind them, train them. Train them.

Train them. Like you said often, I knew long

before I finally let him go that this wasn't gonna work.

Exactly. Get on a little too long.

Yeah, you know, one of the things that I necessary endings.

That's a good one. Yeah.

I think Henry Cloud's probably the person that first started,

or he's the first one I've heard that was really pushing that

idea of you're not doing someone a favor by keeping them

somewhere they don't fit. That's exactly right.

Yeah. And yeah, I think he was really

on to something. I know.

Gosh, it was quite a few weeks ago.

We had a guest on that told the story about letting someone go.

And a few weeks later, he walked up to him and kind of confronted

him. And hey, I need to talk to you

and thank you. Since you let me go.

I went to find something that I'm passionate about.

I'm thriving. And if you hadn't fired me, I

would have just stayed and been miserable.

Yeah, those stories are rare, but I think there's some truth

to me. That's right.

Yeah. Well, and you know, that's how

you always tell young people particularly you don't get

respect, you earn respect. And when you're respecting

someone that is needing encouragement in and, and to

find a different job, that's, that's, that's how you earn it.

Yeah, yeah. There's a right way to do it, to

do it in a respectful way. And somebody that can have

difficult conversations and maintain that respect is a

valuable skill. One of the things that I

remember back when the economy really tanked, and I don't

remember if it's the financial crisisorthe.com crisis, I don't

remember one of those. I've been through a few of those

ups and downs and bubbles and butts.

But anyway, this church member said that he was looking at his

staff and how am I going to eliminate this?

And what he did as he sat down and listed all of the staff and

he listed, OK, how much am I willing to pay them to leave?

And that kind of gives you kind of a monetary perspective at

least on what's it costing you or?

Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to do it.

Well, as you mentioned, hey, you've been through a lot, a lot

of ups and downs. Can you think of a moment when

you were most afraid as a leader?

No, I can't. I think I lost a lot of sleep

over having my kids work for me. That was a difficult time there.

And Jan, bless her heart, she's she's been with me through all

of this. And you know, we leaned on each

other a lot. And I think that our faith has

been huge in getting through those really, really tough

times. You know, the times when I had

everything mortgaged to the limit, that was scary.

I'll never forget this situation when I was with my accountant

and I was just telling him about how the challenges I was facing.

And he says, and this is when I had two 2GO in businesses and,

and he says, I don't know anybody that wish they were Bob

Zimmerstein. And so I, I know that things

were tough then, you know, if I didn't know, it was showing.

Yeah. Oh man.

And how long did it take you to dig out of that when you had to

going businesses and everything mortgaged and and things just

weren't going well? What did it take to fight out of

that hole? Well, I'm not sure how that all

came about to get out of that hole.

I mean, just steady making sure, you know, I'll never forget one

of the air conditioners on the roof was acting up.

And that worried me because how can you have a pleasant dining

experience when it's, you know, 95° inside your restaurant?

And so I, I just tried to make things work the best I could,

you know, I just didn't give up, you know, comes.

Back to that grit you were talking.

About. Yeah, absolutely.

Somebody that's willing to spend their weekend sleeping on the

floor in a restaurant to start a business, that's not somebody

that gives up either. No, I didn't.

Speaking of Angela Duckworth, I think is the name of the author

that wrote the book Grit. OK, yeah, it was not a John

Wayne book, but it's it's a book about grit.

I might have to check that out. I've not heard of that one yet.

Was there something that significantly delayed the growth

of any of your businesses that you would handle differently if

you could go back? I was seriously under

capitalized, you know, that was the hole to dig out of.

And so once I did that, I'm telling you, the sky gets bluer.

Well, when you're not paying 18% interest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to make a heck of a

profit margin. You do 18% interest.

You do? Yeah.

Well, and you know, we Jan had taught enough years that she had

some retirement saved up and we took that out and put it against

the principle of our house. So we had our house pretty well

taken care of, and that was our and we both had degrees, you

know, we felt. And I think that really that was

kind of arrow in our quiver, so to speak, thinking I can always

go back to work somewhere, you know, but that never really.

So that wasn't on my mind much at all.

I was just getting ready to tough it out, do what I had to

do. And if I had to talk to my

banker a lot, I yeah, I hated to go in and talk to him.

Oh, that was terrible. But you know, they stuck with

me. I was gonna say it at least you

had a banker that was willing to work with you through it.

Absolutely, yeah. And I shared everything with

them. You know, that was one of the

things that they knew I was all in.

And so and that China is, you know, I think when you're

playing football or whatever you're doing, if you're in a

team, they know you're all in. That makes a big difference.

And and that was with my employees too.

They were so with me. I just appreciate that so much.

I couldn't have done it without them, that's for sure.

I know a lot of them are still are.

The ones you've had in the last few years are still down at the

Ace. Absolutely.

Well, with the new owners. It was a transition there, you

know, and it didn't work for everybody.

And they have a little different philosophy, but, you know,

you've got to be adaptable and this doesn't matter.

And going back to the illustration about the way

America's on the move, you know, you've just got to be adaptable

and change, change, change. But I, I had several people that

work for me over 20 years, you know, and 30 years.

And so that's, that's precious. Those people are gold.

So I've found in the, the six months or so we've been doing

this and interviewing people, there's two things that come up

in almost every story is that the grit or sticking with it.

Almost every entrepreneur I talked to, the thing they're

most proud of is the fact that they didn't give up.

And then there's always a significant pivot.

Just what you said the the adaptability and, and do you, do

you have any thoughts? How do you determine the things

that you got to put your head down and just muscle through?

And how do you know when the market's speaking to you and

it's time to make a significant pivot and change and adapt?

I think it goes back to you and your mom probably told you this.

Surround yourself with good people and and listen to them.

And you know 2 heads are always better than one.

And we had this saying at the in the hardware business, it takes

two people to say no. And that means that somebody

comes in and says, you got this and they say no, you don't do

that. It takes two people to say no

because you ask somebody else, do we have this?

So no one person can know everything.

And so that's just, I think one of the things that happened in

the hardware business is I joined a group called research

and that was a group of store owners that met twice a year.

And we actually treated each other like we were on their

board. We would critique each other's

store. We'd visit every store of the

membership. And when we were there, we

treated like it was we were the owner of the store and what

would we do differently here and what things really stood out to

us. And we shared all of our

financial information with each other.

And so we could, and that all came out on a nice spreadsheet

so you can compare where you're at, where you wanted to get and

somebody is doing something really special over here.

And it was just, and we did that with marketing, we did that with

financial planning, we did that with a payroll and job

descriptions. And it just, it was very helpful

just surrounding yourself with good people.

And, and I noticed that in A&W, you know, when we started out,

those were the best owners we just had.

They were successful and they were good quality ideas and

philosophy, just, you know, good solid people.

And then when we got into Coast to Coast, that was the same way.

Good people just surround yourself with good people.

And that was an ace. It just kept getting better and

better. So I used that kind of as a rule

of thumb, OK, who do you ask about this or that?

You know, so you you just learn from the best people.

There are the people that are killing it.

That's where do you go to you. Don't have to throw people for

financial advice. That's right.

Is there an opinion that you once held strongly that you've

changed your mind about throughout your career?

Yes, I can say this. I haven't thought about it too

much, but since you asked the question, the fact that Jesus is

Lord, you know I struggled with really.

I was baptized early on as a child, but I struggled with that

when I started in business. So and I, like I said, I used to

teach Sunday school well before I taught Sunday school.

I wasn't sure I wanted to do that, you know, And so I, I

just, I kind of had the scientific part of me was kind

of a stumbling block for me. And my pride was a big stumbling

block. And so I think the biggest

change that I did was when I decided to get baptized as an

adult and I decided, OK, I'm all in.

Yeah. And that was that was a turning

point for me. Yeah, yeah.

Implicit in that statement that Jesus is Lord is I am not.

Yeah, exactly right. That's right.

And surround yourself with the right people.

He's the one. Good advice, good advice there.

Is there a a major mistake that you made that you wish you could

have avoided? Switching to Hardee's, that was

my major, you know, I could have sold that store as an A&W.

It was, it was a nice store. I mean it we, we had good

feedback from customers and it was a great concept.

And I still, I can talk to people any day of the week

pretty much. That's used to be came through

the ANW. I wish we had an ANW.

I was just going to say I missed out on A and WI think you had

turned it over to Hardee's by the time I was old enough to be

paying attention anyway. And yeah, I probably would have

frequented a lot more if it was an A and.

W yeah. Well, that root beer, that was

just delicious. And then, of course, we had the

frosty mugs and root beer freezes and stuff like that, you

know. I mean, it was just that was a

season, you know, America is kind of really the car.

The 60s were such a great period of time in America.

Yeah, and that just fed right into it with the drive ins.

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of an iconic, iconic

brand, iconic. Look, even today, the A&W's that

are around, there's not a lot that has changed as the other

fast food restaurants have updated and changed and done

things differently. You kind of still does it the

same way. You know, it's kind of

interesting though, that the demise of the A&W was it was a

franchise. And when you owned a franchise,

you had the right to sell A&W root beer in your market, and

they've defined it right in the franchise agreement.

So the city limits of Buffalo was my market.

And then what happened is a big conglomerate bought A&W and they

decided, huh, Pepsi and Coke and Doctor Pepper and all these

companies that we need to sell ANW root beer in a can.

But how can they legally sell that and infringe on the

marketplace of an A&W restaurant?

And so that the franchisees banded together.

I was part of it and we all kicked in as much as we could to

hire lawyers to fight to keep ANW root beer in the

restaurants. We lost.

We couldn't we couldn't fight the big companies.

So that's why there's canned and bottled now.

You can still go to, I think Grable has a A&W that still

probably mixes the root beer like like we used to.

And it is, has a different carbonation so it's smoother and

it's just a, it's a great product.

You you can't duplicate it without the right equipment.

Have you ever made a beneficial mistake, Something that was

maybe a mistake and cost you at the time, but in hindsight ended

up being a valuable lesson or something that moved you ahead?

Yeah, I'll never forget when I started the investment club and

the local gal was stockbroker and so I decided I wanted to buy

a certain stock. And so I says, hey, $5000 worth

of or whatever this particular ticker, well, she put it in, but

she ordered the wrong ticker. She didn't understand what it

was. But that forced me to see be a

lot more particular about my communication with her.

And I said I am not. And so I end up not using that

particular broker again ever so. Communication is a valuable

lesson. Oh boy.

Yeah, yeah. So if you could go back to when

you were first married, before you first A&W, if you had the

option to kind of follow the route that you have with the

various businesses and be an entrepreneur, would you do it

again? I sure would.

Yeah. You know, that's just.

I'll never forget my dad standing up when my mother

passed away and he said I would have married her.

I would have, I would do it all again.

You know, in spite of all of the challenges in running a ranch

and raising kids and, and just the ups and downs, you, you

learn through those processes and that's valuable.

And it can't be taken away from them, you know, So I would do it

all again. Good answer.

I would be, I'll tell you one of the things that I would have

learned earlier on patience, I would have learned and

especially before we adopted our son and daughter, patience was a

huge vacuum in my mind and I'd learned to be more patient.

But I should have learned it a lot earlier in my life.

And working with managers, I'll never forget, I would sit, then

visit with them and yes, and yes, and we'll do this and do

this, and then it wouldn't happen.

And I remember how frustrated I used to get.

I'd get in my pickup and I would pound the seat beside me because

I was so frustrated and the dust would fly.

So no, I wouldn't change a thing.

I think that's probably a trait of most entrepreneurs as well as

we're anxious to you don't want to wait.

You got, you have a vision, you know the path to get there and

we're in execution mode sometimes like like you

mentioned, there is a God and we're not him.

That's exactly. Right.

We got to got to use other people, wait on other people,

wait on the right timing. Yeah.

And that's that's important. So, and whether you're buying

stocks or whatever it is, timing is a very critical issue.

Yes, it is. I read this book by Howard Hamm.

I don't know if you've ever heard of him but he the title of

the book is Game Changer that really developed the horizontal

drilling over in the Balkan. What a good book that is.

I enjoyed that a lot. I might have to check it out.

You've got a few recommendations today that I haven't heard of.

So what has been your biggest win as a leader?

Growing myself. You know, I've come into this,

into that business without any background in it and, and I

think that that's I survived, you know, that's a win.

Yeah. I made it to where I was able to

sell the store, sell all of the stores.

And now I'm not sleepless. I don't have any sleepless

nights on that behalf. Yeah.

So, yeah, that's a good feeling. Yeah, it is.

So growing myself, I'd say I was the answer.

Awesome. Well, I know you brought a few

resources and books with you, but what has been your greatest

resource to grow as a leader? I can't say I think it takes.

It's like going to a buffet. I think you have to pick up here

and there and you just learn from all of the others that

should go along because there's so much in there.

This afternoon before I headed to here I, I told Jen I says

what I have in this bag, you know, and I think I have 8 books

or so and I said if I would have sat down and read all of those,

you couldn't. You can't retain it all.

You just have to go and and I think those seminars are were so

powerful. I mean, I had motivation.

I was eager to maybe my own detriment sometimes so eager not

thinking it through really. But that's where Jan was so

helpful to me, you know, to why are you doing it that way?

You know, and I guess I did thought that was the way to do

it. So I, I tell you, Zig Ziglar was

huge. I had a book called Zig Ziglar's

top performance, how to develop excellence in yourself and

others. And that was a huge thing.

I, I used that book so much in teaching my managers Jim

Collins, good to great. You've probably heard of that

one. That's a huge successful leaders

book, getting the right people in the right place in the bus

and stuff like that. And whether it's.

Any kind of an organization, whether it's a church or

business or your own personal life, you know, you just need to

put the right things in the right place and eat that frog.

That was a cute little book used a lot.

And if you got a task, this is what it says.

I, I did the EAI here, kind of summarize things.

Eat That Frog is about discipline over motivation,

prioritation over busyness, and consistent action over

perfection. It's short, direct,

motivational, and full of repeatable habits that quick

produce quick wins. Ideal for anyone who is

overwhelmed by to do lists and entrepreneurs, professional

students, anyone who wants to make to get important things

done faster and feel more in control.

Many readers report the biggest shift comes from simply

identifying their daily frog and eating it first.

OK. Yeah, that sounds like a good

one. Not too long it.

Oh yeah, it's just a cute little thing, prints big and it's got

some illustrations in it and stuff.

So it's just, it's, it's good and it comes with a little DVD

player. OK.

Yeah, I might have to borrow that one.

This is looking a little tired, but and and another one, Andy

Stanley, the principal of the PATH.

Oh, that was a good book. You know, I shared that with a

lot of graduates when I had an employee or relative that was

graduating from high school, I would give him that book and I

had great little e-mail from a gal that read that book and she

just thanked me for that book. She had it for a few years and

then finally found it and read it, you know?

One of those that sat on the shelf for a little while.

And then of course, the Patrick Lanziani and his The Ideal Team

Player. That was a great book too.

That was a good one. We've done that one not too long

ago and I guess not my business anymore, but yeah, yeah, that

was a fun one to go through as a team.

Absolutely. What motivates you to keep

pushing when things get hard? Like I said earlier, I think

desire foreclosure, you know, start something, finish it,

don't leave it undone. You know, one of the guys,

bookkeepers I had, she talked about her dad and she said he

would just give it a lick and a promise.

You know, I'm more of AI want to finish it, button it up, put a

bowl on it, be done with it. Yeah.

I think that's a trait I see in a lot of successful leaders and

a lot of business owners is you just have to, you have to finish

it. Yeah, see it through.

Because the next thing might overwhelm you and you'll never

get back to it. Yep.

So yeah, that's something I'm having to figure out now as I

slow down a little bit is that everything is on it.

A real strict timeline. Yeah.

Even last summer, I was working on a project around the house

that had no deadline. It didn't have to be done.

It wasn't gonna keep us from using whatever it was I was

working on. It was just kind of a little

maintenance project. And I was working on it one

evening and I found myself like, I'm gonna get it done before

dark. Yeah, I gotta finish it tonight.

My wife was like, why does it have to be done tonight?

I don't know. Yeah.

Doesn't, but it just like I started it, I'm going to finish

it and told me am I going to finish it?

I'm going to finish it by the arbitrary deadline that I just

set for myself. And Yep.

Yeah, that's motivation right there.

Sure and simple. Oh man, Was there a major

turning point in your career where you felt like, OK, I've

made it? I'm not, I'm not super stressed

or pushing the ball uphill anymore, but you kind of felt a

comfortable place that you got to.

Well, I don't know. I think I had a totally

different idea about that. What I kind of thought about is

in responding to that is I think when I was baptized as an adult,

that's when I felt, OK, I'm I'm not God.

I can be myself. I can just do the best I can and

let it be. Yeah, that's a great answer.

A spiritual peace, right? Absolutely, yeah.

I wrestled with the intellectual perception that I had, and I put

it to rest. Yeah.

I know you've now sold a few different businesses.

Are there any key lessons you learned through the process of

selling a business that you might share with a young person

that's building a business or or looking to make an exit?

Well, I think one of the best things that I did was I hired an

appraiser And then when I because if you're in a good

negotiation with a prospective buyer, the it's generally hard

to put real hard facts together that say, OK, this is worth this

much, but you're the one that knows more about it than

anybody. And if you get the appraisal and

if it doesn't fit with how you sense that the true value is,

then you can get another appraisal.

And it's just a important part to do that.

I think for me it was really important.

And that way I felt comfortable. I knew right where I needed to

be. And there was very little

argument when it come time to say, OK, this is the price and

this is what I expect to get. And I can tell you why I think

that. Yeah, yeah.

Especially that can be a pretty emotional time.

So having that third party to be able to objectively look at

something probably pretty helpful.

Absolutely. Well, yeah, I jumped ahead

there. That probably was an emotional

process, especially at your latest exit with with ACE.

That was kind of the the pinnacle of your career.

What emotions did you wrestle with or or what questions did

you have to answer for yourself in the process of deciding to to

sell and retire? Well, selling the selling the

restaurant was my heart was with the employees that I left.

My heart was there and that that was the way it was with the a

store too. And it's taken me to see we,

we've been out of it now for a year and a half or so, maybe a

little more more than that. It was Easter morning that we

sold the store a year, two years ago.

So and I, it's taken me a long time to just, I feel comfortable

that I am not responsible for the store and the owners.

They, they wanted me, wanted my feedback.

Anytime you see something going back bad, let me know, you know.

And so that's just been an important, I knew that I had the

right people because they want to hear my feedback on how it's

going. And so that that's been helping

the piece in my mind to know that this is, it's going to go

on. But I, I still go to the store

and I don't have my ace jacket on now, but I go into the store

and the customers will come up and well, where's this or what's

this or what do you think about this?

So, well, I tell you, there's somebody right over there that

they can help you with that. I bet it feels nice to be able

to give them that answer. Oh, it's wonderful.

It's wonderful. You know, in my mind, I started

preparing. Oh my gosh.

Well, like I told you, I think I bet in my mind I've been getting

ready to sell for 10 years or maybe more because I didn't

think it would take that long. I really didn't.

But it does. Yeah, can take a while.

But it, it's, if the right thing happens, you know, I had other

people who tried to buy the store and I, we got into some of

the weeds and the details and it just wasn't right.

So we just didn't do that. But if you got a good business,

it's easy to sell. I mean, you've got options.

You do really do. Now, if you rent into run into a

medical problem or something like that where you've got some

issues there that you got a, your time frame gets shortened

up. I was so blessed not to have any

of that happen. You know what, I just Jan was

ready to sell quite a while before I was do.

You ever second guess that decision?

Not at all. Not now.

Nope. Good, good deal.

Well, this is my absolute favorite question.

You mentioned your faith a few times and that you're a follower

of Jesus. How has that impacted your

leadership journey? I say it has everything to do

with it. You know, He promised to be with

us and he is. And so that's just, that's huge.

You're not by yourself, you're not God.

He is. And if you, it's just, you know,

one of the things that I was really blessed with was my

grandmother and her optimism. She was the most optimistic

person I can ever remember. And I think that she instilled

that in me being a Christian. If you're not optimistic as a

Christian, you need to study a little more because you've got

the best of everything going for you, the best there is.

And so I just feel that that's an optimistic point of view and

that's why it's valuable. And if you're, if you're

optimistic about today and tomorrow and the future is

guaranteed, wow, what else can you say?

You know, you don't, don't want to give up that optimism, that's

for sure. Because it's, it's fuel for the

motivation. It's fuel for the everything you

do for life. Good answer.

Good answer. So what's next?

What do you, what do you got on the horizon?

I know you're finishing up a shop to go with a new home that

you guys just built and moved into.

What are your plans for retirement?

Well, I've got a camper and I love camping and so I've been

making reservations for the summer and because I do have my

shop so I can, you know, this is going to be a exciting winner

next winter because when I get done camping, I just pull my

shot, my camper in the shop. I don't have to winterize it,

it's just going to be cozy and it's OK.

Perfect Perfect grows that camping season a little bit too

if you can their limits a. Little yeah.

So yeah, I'm really blessed to have that shop and I am enjoying

doing. I just like working with my

hands and it gives me a place to do that.

I mean, I have a good size garage so I can work in my shop

and my garage too. I just, and I'm optimistic, you

know, And so it doesn't matter what I'm gonna do, I'm just

ready to go. Good deal.

Good deal. Well, of you said you made a few

reservations already, what's the place that you're most excited

to visit? I would say South Fork up there,

there's a we, Jan and I really are interested in picking the

spot we like the best. Yeah.

And so I've got reservations in there and you have to make them

six months in advance and you got to compete for that spot.

Yep, and so it wasn't that way prior to 20.

Wasn't it? No, no.

You probably just show up and you could get it, you know?

Very many years ago you just go find the spot you want and park

in it and find the camp host. And in 2020, it just like, yeah,

if you're not booking your spaces in January, you're out of

luck. We're gonna camp in Spearfish

and we're gonna, we've been camping every year at the RJ

resort there in Hill City. And we meet Jen's brother and

his wife and sometimes our kids show up and sometimes our kids

show up. And so it's just a great place

to, they got a great big open Meadow there where we camp.

And you can fly on RC airplane out there and it's just a great

setting. And then at night if you hear

the sirens go by with the ambulance or something like

that, it tunes up the kites and you listen closely and you can

hear kites. OK.

They're very sensitive to to sirens.

Yeah. Well, is there anybody that

you'd like to see on the show? Somebody that works in an

interesting industry, has a really cool story, something you

might be might like to learn more about?

Yeah, there is. But I think before I'd throw out

the name though, I might just visit with him a little bit.

But I have a guy that I think would be a great on the show.

He is a Christian and and he's been very successful at what he

does and he's had a very background too in different

industries, yeah, establishments.

Well, if you chat with him and I'll chat with him, I want to

make an introduction. We're always looking for

interesting stories and interesting people.

And then our last question, we wrap up every show to either

fuel or settle the debate. If you have a job to do and have

to use a cordless tool, which brands do you prefer?

Well, you know, I sold a lot of hand tools, cordless hand tools,

and that's one of the things about being an Ace Hardware

store and and thinking about the consumer.

First of all, you want to buy from a friendly person and you

want to buy something that you that they've got your back.

And if it doesn't work, you can take it back and they're going

to be good with that. They're not going to quiz you

about what did you, what you did with it.

But, and we've had a number of times when people would come in,

buy something, take it home, use it and bring it back, you know,

because they got the job done well.

Well, hand tools are kind of a a wonderful invention, beautiful,

convenient, great, productive kind of a thing.

But I have changed my theory about that.

I've gone from yellow to red. I'm a Milwaukee fan and

Milwaukee has really jumped into the cordless power stuff.

I have a cordless vacuum and that's just handy as a pocket on

a shirt. The dustbuster works really

good, but this baby has got some suction on it so it's really

handy. But I vote for Milwaukee,

although I still have a lot of DeWalt stuff, but I line up all

the chargers and I can pick what I want.

Sounds good. Well, thank you so much for

joining us. This has been a pleasure man,

with the the life you've lived and and the very experienced

varied experiences you have. You've got a lot of wisdom to

offer and and a lot of great stories.

So I really appreciate you making the time and joining us.

Well, I am excited for you, Eric.

This is a great project and you know, stories that I've to it's

just, you know, started with your dad.

I thought that was great. And so many of those podcasts

you just it's encouragement. That's what it is.

It's kind of like surrounding yourself with good people.

And so I enjoy those a lot. And I haven't, I don't know if

I've got subscribed or not, but I'm gonna subscribe.

I might wanna not subscribe to this particular 1.

So I won't tell anybody about it if you don't.

Sounds good, Sounds good. Well, thank you guys for joining

us here on From the Ground Up show.

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