Reggie Brock – Missed Opportunities with Mark Cuban, Learning to Read a Room and Provide Stability

I pick up the phone and the guy on the other end says, Hey, my name is Mark Cuban.

Hey, are you the guy that sold all that ads

the,

SEC tournament?

I said, I am.

said, can we meet?

he said, I'm a big Indiana university fan and I love basketball.

I'm using the internet right now.

to pipe

the Indiana basketball games over the internet.

I think we can monetize this.

but I didn't know how.

until I saw the SEC tournament last weekend.

And he said, let's do a deal.

Hey there and welcome to From the Ground Up Show, the show where we inspire and encourage the next generation of free thinking leaders by telling the stories of those that have

been there, done that and are still getting it done.

People who have built a life that they love with their heart, their hands and their hustle.

I'm your host, Eric Loden.

If you guys are enjoying the content, if you like the show, please help us out.

Leave a five star review, subscribe, follow, share, like, that means a lot to us and that's the best way we have to promote the show and get it out there.

So thank you for joining us

And today I am joined by Reggie Brock.

Reggie is the creator of Axis 8, a leadership alignment framework designed to detect what dashboards can't measure.

The unseen emotional, behavioral and cultural forces that shape

performance.

He's now certified in both YOS and WhoOS.

Reggie helps leaders and teams connect the dots between purpose, why, people, who, and performance alignment, Access8.

His approach gives organizations a full spectrum operating system that builds clarity, chemistry, and consistent form from the inside out.

He's known for helping teams steady the spin, find alignment,

and create cultures that don't wobble under pressure.

And Reggie came highly recommended to us by one of our previous guests.

They indicated that he had played a big role in helping uh kind of cement the systems in their company, get the right people in the right places, and really set them up for growth

and success.

So we're hoping that along with just telling us his story, Reggie can give some advice for all of us.

and help us bring some of that stability to the businesses we all run.

So Reggie, thank you for joining us.

Man, what a privilege it is to be here.

I've looked forward to this since we first started talking.

Excited about what you guys are, how you're impacting people across the country.

And any time Dominic Frazier introduces me to someone I know they're good folks.

I love Dominic.

think his is one of the favorite interviews we've done so far.

He's a good guy.

Yeah.

great organization.

Yeah.

have a great culture and, uh, man, they're just running and off to the races.

And it sounds like you played a role in helping them build that culture.

So that word culture is an interesting term to me, and we'll probably dive more into this a little bit later,

but what Dominic and them had done is they built a culture that really speaks to how we operate, but they've gone one step further.

And I think one of the things that I've helped them with is you're taking your culture and how do we turn it into a community?

And community is the place where people feel belong and connected.

And when people feel belong and connected, they're...

performance has a tendency to organically grow.

And, um, I think we've become pretty good at building culture, the operations and kind of the workflows and all those things.

But when you take the soul out of your business, where, which are your people, and you're not attentive to that part of your business, the community side of your business, things

become more chaotic quick.

And the structure of a company cannot survive.

mean, a well-structured company has a high survival rate, but man, you've got to realize that those systems and structures are built to help your people do more with what they

have.

so one of the things with Dominic and Fraser Roofing, Sarah and Connie as well, that they've done very, very well is they've...

They've made not just a culture popular, but a community that people not just are attracted to, but want to stay with.

Oh man, yeah, listening to you say that just turned the light on for me.

You described exactly what I was thinking when I was talking to Dominic is he has an outstanding culture, but it's more than that.

He has a real community.

His people love him.

He loves them.

They do life together.

He told us one story.

He had one of his employees asked him to baptize them at a corporate retreat that I that that that's community.

That's not just corporate culture.

Yeah.

absolutely is.

guess as I'm just thinking about that and processing that, I've seen that in my own business.

I feel like we've had a really, really strong culture for a long time.

And when we were small, when I first bought my business and took over, was me and five or six guys.

And we had that community.

We were all in it together shoulder to shoulder, side by side every day.

And as we've built it up now to, you know, 25, 27 people,

I think we still have that strong culture, but maybe that community is what's starting to lack.

uh, man, I'm, even more excited than I was to learn more about what you do and what you have to say.

So.

Well,

I think that's, I think that's a huge business component to success is when people want to get up every day and be with you.

Um, and when people feel like their contribution absolutely affects the outcome of the organization, it's just different.

They culture will tell you.

based upon the operational requirements, these are your tasks, this is your responsibility, just go get them done, everybody's gonna be happy.

Community cares deeper, they want more, they're not, we are people together.

And so that takes a little bit, because we live in a very isolated, siloed world right now, because people have been lied to long enough to believe that silo creates safety.

And it's actually the opposite.

When we move into a silo, we depend strictly on our own energy, our own capacity capability.

And when all of us have limits to that, right?

And so we can only do so much for so long.

But man, when you're grafted in and when there is a shared DNA, so to speak, where we're able to draw from a gift to one another,

It just gives us when we're weak, we have resources available to us.

In a silo, you don't.

When someone else is weak, community gives to them knowing one day that will come back to them, press together, press down, shake together and run it over kind of approach.

And so oh that's what my whole life is about.

I believe that we need each other and us is better and we is better than me.

And we just live in this world where people have, we've been lied to so long about uh our importance and blood is going to be probably cut hard against some people, but we've come

to believe that we're far more important by ourselves than we are together.

And it's just a lie.

Yeah, I've heard that discussed in the context of uh relationship and marriage specifically as a sign of maturity.

you know, when we're born, we're entirely dependent on our parents and maturing is becoming independent.

And a lot of people, and I think now that you're bringing the context into the business world and organization, most organizations think they're

fully mature when they're independent, you grow to become self-sustaining.

But really, the sign of maturity is willing dependence.

When you can make yourself vulnerable and become dependent on a friend, a spouse, connect in relationship, it magnifies what you can accomplish.

And so you're talking about kind of bringing that next level of maturity that we see in relationships and bringing it into the work realm and into the business world.

Yeah.

It's all in Trud to dependence.

Like it's where we began to realize that we're just better together.

And

here's what I know.

My wife and I've been married 37 years.

And when we started dating, it went from, we like each other to, well, this got some, you know, uh, maybe let's talk about the future, you know, and our like led to love.

And then our love led to I do.

And, you know, before we pulled the

you know, for Virgil parachute, said, look, let's talk about the big things that matter to both of us in our fakes, you know, our finances, you know, where we wanted to live, all

those things.

And children came up and we both wanted to have kids.

Now here's what's interesting there.

We could have wanted kids all day long.

We could have prayed about having kids all day long.

We could have hoped for kids all day long, but eventually we had to create one together.

And so my wife could have prayed herself blue.

I could have hoped myself into the future, but until we decided to create together, our son would have never been produced.

No matter how talented, gifted she was or me until we decided that we were going to co-create, that son was never born.

And here's what people miss.

It's the same principle in business.

We've got talented people that do really good things.

but they'll never gain ground that's only reserved for collaborators.

And so if you're living, listen, if you're hearing me today and you think that everything that you need is at your own, is at the end of your own fingertips, you're deceiving

yourself because no more than my wife, Connie and I could have had our son Jordan without each other.

There is gained ground in your business life that will only come when you co-create and collaborate.

So we've got to move out of these salos back to the center.

Yeah, that's great.

Well, before we dive too much into the weeds of uh business and building culture, building community, we like to start every show with a little bit of background.

So tell me about Reggie.

Where did you grow up?

What was your childhood like?

So uh I am the son of a preacher, man.

My dad is 91 years old and I was raised in a preacher's home and ended up, uh you know, it had a tremendous impact on my faith.

uh but equally as important to me is my dad uh was a man that was not just respected outside the home, but inside the home.

And that had an impression on me.

that uh has never left.

You know, my dad was very powerful.

He was very known, but when he was never different, this was the same man in or out of the house.

And so the kindness he exhibited to others, he did the same to us.

There was an example and a model that I learned from, not just he was a great preacher and motivator and charismatic and all those things.

My dad was just consistent.

And uh so,

growing up in that home, put a lot of uh pressure on me really to live up to that kind of standard.

And the problem is I didn't.

uh And uh so I left home and went to college and went to Evangelical College in Springfield, Missouri.

It's a liberal arts Bible college and my degree is in biblical studies.

And so uh went through that, played football there, college football there for four years and uh

When I left, went on the evangelistic field.

I don't know how familiar you are with that, but I just basically traveled and spoke across the country and at different churches.

so

that...

Yeah.

Yeah, you can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy.

That's what people tell me all the time.

And so uh got out of college and pretty quickly married.

um

the girl that I married was, uh you know, we stayed married five years and then she basically just walked in one day and said, can't do this.

She didn't like, she really didn't like the ministry.

And probably I wasn't really that great of a husband if I honestly look back at it.

So we divorced and in my particular denomination, if you went through a divorce, you might as well find a new career.

And so uh I was left not knowing what to do.

And so actually I got into the insurance business and because in the fact of the matter is I had friends of mine that were doing that.

And one of the needs I had was quick recovery financially and that business provided that.

So I did that for 25 years.

so went through my wife, current wife and I now who now been married 37 years back in uh 20.

10 lost everything and it was again at my hands.

Like I made some really bad decisions and it cost us everything, almost our marriage.

But we went to Texas from Georgia and I needed to make quick money and I'm like, I got to find a way to do that.

And so I got in the roofing business and I've spent the last 16 years in roofing everything from just door to door sales to

You know, I've managed crews.

I've worked with different insurance companies to provide new benefits to roofers in certain areas.

I've been on the distribution side.

So 16 years of my life has been in this space.

And what I've learned through all of that is that all I have that's valuable is the character and the uh responsibility that I take for my own deeds.

And so, you know, I try to inspire people that

Even when failure happens, which is a part of growing as a leader, like sometimes failure is going to be at the hands of somebody else and sometimes it's self-imposed.

And so how do you recover?

And so I'll, one of the things that I believe is this is no matter how far your setback is, the story really should be about your comeback.

And I kind of just, that's been an anthem for me.

I've been knocked down a bunch and some of us just been, I've punched my own self, right?

And like,

goofy kind of ways, but then I've never allowed my setback to be the determiner of my life.

I wanted always to be able to go like, he may have been knocked down, but he got back up.

And so it's been a fun journey.

It's been a painful journey.

It's been a rewarding journey, but it, every emotion that you could have ever think could be either personally, professionally, I've experienced it.

And uh I'm not proud of everything, but I'm sure proud of where I am today.

That's great.

think I've heard it phrased lots of different ways, but that's a trait that keeps coming up again and again and again through doing this show and just speaking with successful

people is the value of perseverance and success.

A life well lived rarely happens off of a wild gamble or a one time get lucky.

It's consistently making good choices again and again and again and picking yourself up and

Yeah, Dave Ramsey always says the difference between success and failure is you're standing on top of the pile of mistakes instead of buried underneath.

it's good.

Yeah.

And I, think, I believe that I think what really reveals who a person is, in times of pressure and you know, when things are just like smooth and unencumbered and, know, uh

maintaining that speaks to one's character, but when somebody's really gut punched, you kind of learn about who they are.

And listen, even when

even if they make a mistake, I just, love watching how they decide what's next and how they get there.

so, um like life is full of, for me, of failures and some successes.

And I'm just glad to say I'm here today still standing.

Awesome.

Well, we're glad to have you here.

oh

Well, can you tell us a little bit about how you started the business that you're in today?

Yep.

Uh, I, again, having been in the roofing business for 16 years, uh, I've met, I've met a lot of people, and I've done a lot of different things inside of roofing, but my heart

always returns back to what I saw my dad doing.

And that was the care, nurture and building of people.

And, I, I, that is deep in me.

I.

I'm really interested in how people, when we encounter one another, can go from the spot they're in to where they're supposed to be.

And sometimes the word they're supposed to be is a little bit further down the road, but preparation for that is critically important.

I've also noticed that what's important to me is we have done a, um I think we've succumbed to a notion that performance, uh

is strictly that we see in our people is strictly based around the signs that we can read like KPIs and dashboards and all those things are important.

But there's an element to people's lives that we're not seeing and we're not paying much attention to that affects dramatically the way they perform.

And that's simply put the way they think and feel.

So I spend a lot of time really just focused on, you know,

when not just the tasks and the activities, which I really don't spend much time on, I really spend a lot of time on how do you elevate your performance in whatever area,

whether it's your marriage or whether it's your relationship with your kids or whether it's your work.

What are the key indicators of potential growth in your performance?

And what I have found is every top performer I've ever run into had two major characteristics that those who aren't high performers lack, and that is number one,

These people are so dialed in mentally.

They know where the finish line is and there's nothing that distracts them until they cross it.

They get rid of distractions that encumber them from running the race.

And sometimes it's painful because some of the losses they've experienced have been important to them, meaning people may be in their life or situations in their life.

But they realized that those people in situations had to go because they were in the way of where they were going and the goal that they had.

And that's not easy to do, but their mindsets are so strong in terms of what my calling is, what my deliverables are, what my gifts look like, and the goals that I have in front

of me.

They're not really obsessed much with the past, whether it was good or bad, it's this moment.

Am I prepared for what's in front of me today?

And how do I put everything else aside and mentally stay focused on the destination?

That is an art form.

And then the second thing is, I've noticed about high performance, is they have an innate ability to manage emotions.

And a lot of people, that's a lack of maturity that...

humburs their growth is they're just very smart and they may even be mentally plugged in and clear on goals and expectations, but they just can't control their self emotionally.

Things come their direction and it throws them off kilter.

And what we don't realize when I was growing up in business, people, my bosses told me this, I don't care how you feel.

Like just go do the job.

It's not the way this generations are today.

the way they feel and the way they think truly affects in great measure uh how they perform.

And so a lot of times I go into companies and they're like, here are the metrics.

That's the first thing they want to show me.

And if you look at KPIs and dashboards, are they important?

Absolutely.

They're just incomplete.

And so when you look at a KPI or a dashboard result, it indicates only history.

Right?

It's like, this is what your goal was.

This is how close you got to it under over.

And it just, it's a snapshot of the present.

It is not an indicator of what's to come.

Now you can pull some strategy out of that and go like, and you know, we've got, you know, we can plan around some of that, but if you're not taking into account the way people

think and feel there is an, and you're able to capture that data and show what

how it's affected the performance you've got, you're missing a great opportunity to grow people.

And that's what I do.

I look at and see things that dashboards miss.

They don't show up on a dashboard yet, but people are feeling it.

And I don't know if you felt like this, Eric, but you, know, have you ever felt like something was off?

You didn't see it yet, but you just felt it or you thought, oh my God, I mean, there's something that's like off here.

You ever felt like that?

You just couldn't put your finger on it.

Yeah.

And that's where I help people kind of get more cute into what is that telling you when you walk into a room and the room's different than it's been the last 10 times.

What are the signs that you're looking for?

What are the indicators that something's off?

And then let's identify it.

So we can go to work on it before it shows up negatively.

And so it is about performance to me, helping people grow, but it's really focused on.

managing emotions and creating mental strength in our uh setting of standards.

Okay.

Interesting.

yeah, it's been, it's been a, it's been uh fun.

It's hard because, you know, people, uh, it gets a little dirty, you know, like when you get down into the dirt and you start dealing with some of these surface under the kind of

surface issues, it's painful, man.

Like there've been, there've been hurts in people and some of these challenges emotionally they've been facing for years that they've just kind of buried and, uh

You know, when you start tapping that route, so to speak, they start having to deal with it once and for all, it's tough.

So the curve of learn of what I'm doing is a little slower just because people are a little bit apprehensive, but I'm patient.

Yeah.

So you started with kind of the desire to serve people, love people where they're at, move them forward like your dad did, and now have combined that with the skills and the

observations you had, particularly in the roofing industry to kind of put this new thing together.

Is that an accurate summary?

Yeah.

And it's

kind of an old thing that's become new to me.

Like it's, it's, uh, I think that it's, we have stepped away from in our chase of success, just kind of some simple strategies that have worked in the past that people have just

abandoned.

And some of that's in me too, just like, okay, like I played sports my whole life.

I'm used to teams.

I'm used to, you know, understanding that.

even though you may be a quarterback, you're not the only person on that team that matters.

I've understood how positions matter to people inside of organizations and how you connect dots and get people to kind of moving in the same direction.

Because, you know, again, I just say this, we're better together.

We're going to move forward faster, and we're going to have a sense of security and stability inside of our organizations oh and inside of our marriages that's impenetrable.

And that's what I want.

want a bulletproof.

Listen, I don't, know it's not possible, but that's in my mind.

I'm like, we're going to build something strong.

It's going to be agile, but it's going to be very mindful of the parts, not just the whole.

And how do we together bring people to a place to where they realize these are my people.

I committed to them.

We're moving forward together.

And my contribution is not just mattered, but it's noticed.

Yeah.

So what does that process look like?

I mean, what steps do you walk a team through to get them from, these are the people I show up and work next to, to we are connected community that's tackling the world

together.

So the first thing I talk about, and I just remembered this, but I'm gonna share it with you.

uh People being able to recognize who is in the room with them is really, really important to where this room goes.

And I'll explain it like this.

In the mid 90s, way before you were even shown up, when the internet really kicked off was about 94, five, six, somewhere around there.

And I was living with my wife in Birmingham, Alabama.

And, you know, I was doing some consulting work for some different friends.

And one of my friends asked me to go meet or another one of his friends who was in the server business, meaning they, I don't know, back in the day, they would have these

servers, these technology servers that, that were huge.

Like they would fill rooms.

Like it was just crazy.

And so, uh, this buddy of mine sold these servers and, but he got

He had a technical guy that worked with him, who was one of the first guys who ever built websites.

And when I tell you build websites, it was like looking at a newspaper online.

There was, it was just very static, but it, you know, it was intriguing because you could get on your computer and pop up some information about somebody.

And that was like, it was unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

I remember that.

was, yeah.

I think we...

like, what happened here?

We got internet in our house in 93, 94, kind of that time you're talking about.

just seeing something on a screen that wasn't the TV was a big deal.

didn't matter what you were looking at.

Yeah.

And

so, uh, he asked me to come in and do some consulting with him.

And I went on a sales call with them and they, I'll never forget this.

was a community in Birmingham, Alabama called Highlands Lake.

Never forget it.

And their logo on their brochures was a man standing in, um, waiters in a pond with a

uh fly rod and he was standing like this and that's all it was just him in that lake and pretty background but it was just him standing like this and all these guys did in

developing their website was they had his arm just move like this.

That was it.

You would have thought they had reinvented, you know, like it was the most, you were like, were just dumbfounded.

You'd never seen anything like it.

And so these people are like, we want this.

And their next question was how much does this cost?

And before I even thought I said, it's $25,000.

And these guys went, who do we make the checkout to for this?

That's it.

We went back to the office and this guy goes like, that was incredible.

I said, I don't even know what happened other than you got a $25,000 check and you put a brochure online with their arm moves.

He said, can you go with us to another call?

I said, sure.

said, but this, I said, who's the client?

And I'm a big college football fan and living in Birmingham, Alabama, the headquarters for the Southeastern conference was in Birmingham.

And that was his client.

And so he went in and he said, look,

Um

You know, we want to do this website thing.

Y'all know how to do it.

And he said, yeah.

And so he said, we'll build you a website.

were right before the owner of that company said how much he was going to charge.

Cause he's like, if we charge $25,000 for this, can probably get a hundred thousand dollars for doing a turn.

And I'm like, he started to say that.

I said, excuse me, just a second.

We were sitting with the commissioner and his associate commissioner at the sec Roy Kramer was actually the guy's name.

We walked down the hall and I said, his name was Jeff.

said, Jeff, do me a favor.

Trust me.

I want you just to let, just let me handle the pricing.

He goes, okay.

So we went in and I said, the price is zero.

Now, Jeff, who the owner was sitting next to me goes like, wait a minute.

said, hold on just a second.

What I'm going to ask you to do is all of your corporate sponsors that you have with the sec.

Now this was Coca-Cola, General.

mean, all these big name.

Mercedes Benz, all this big stuff.

I said, all I'm asking you is to introduce me to them.

And I will not just a cold introduction.

You need to set an appointment for me.

And so he did.

And so we took, and we did the basketball tournament for the SEC, which that year is in New Orleans and is basketball tournament.

And we had a four day, um, website kind of that refresh with scores and all that kind of stuff.

But at the bottom, we put what they call a crawler.

And that crawler was advertising for each of the corporate sponsors.

I went to every major corporate sponsor they had.

And at the end of the two weeks prior, three weeks prior to the event, we had raised on that site just for four days, $384,000.

Wow.

Yeah.

And so we did an 80-20 split with the conference.

We kept 80 % of it and the conference kept 20 % of it, but that was the last time we were able to do anything like that with them because they're like, no, we'll do this ourselves.

I said that, tell you that story because the next Monday we're back at the office kind of having coffee and the phone rings and the receptionist came back and said, Reggie, you got

a call.

I'm like, I don't even work here.

How do I have a call here?

Well, I pick up the phone and the guy on the other end says, Hey, my name is Mark Cuban.

And I'm like, okay.

Uh, he goes, again, this was in the mid nineties.

So this wasn't like Cuban that we know him today.

And he goes, uh,

Hey, are you the guy that sold all that ads to, the, uh, SEC tournament?

I said, I am.

said, can we meet?

And I said, well, yeah, I guess he said I'm in Dallas.

And so the company that I was with, we, you know, they were kind of on a higher right now.

And so there was willing to spend a little bit of money.

We flew to Dallas and met with Mark and, um, uh, he's like, I had this company and what we, we wouldn't, he, he had literally his offices were in a warehouse in Dallas.

And he, uh, he said, I'm a big Indiana university fan and I love basketball.

And he said, I'm using the internet right now.

to pipe the internet or the Indiana basketball games over the internet.

And they were using DSL lines and T1s during back in that time through the phone company.

And he said, I can't see anything, but I can hear it live.

And he said, I think we can monetize this.

And he said, but I didn't know how.

I really didn't figure out how until I saw the SEC tournament last weekend.

And he said, let's do a deal.

And uh I'm like, cool.

And, but the owner of the company that I just did that for the sec says, Hey, before we commit, let's, let's, let's all just have some time and think about it.

We get back on the plane, long story short.

And, um, but the owner looks at me, he goes like, that dude's crazy.

He, is the, this is a failure waiting to happen.

And he's like, I ain't got to nothing to do with it.

I'm like, Like fine.

So I get back, we get back on Wednesday, my phone Wednesday night rings at my house in this Cuban.

And he goes, Hey, what'd y'all think?

I said, I mean, I think it's cool, but I said, I'm a wrong guy to talk to.

Like, I don't, I mean, this is, I don't do the development.

He's like, I got all that.

He said, what kind of contractual agreement do you have with his owner group?

I'm like, I mean, mine's done.

I just completed the task with them with the SEC.

He said, great.

He said, it's not you.

It's not them.

want to shoot.

And said, if you don't have any contractual relationships, want to give you, I want you to consider a business partnership with me.

Now back then, again, Mark Cuban was like nobody.

And, uh, so, but his plan was so dialed in and it was so exactly in my lane.

It's sports.

And he said, here's what I want to do.

I want to split the country in half.

I'll take, you take the east side of the country.

I'll take the west side of the country and all of the colleges that, that are in those zones.

Let's do this.

Let's pipe the live games to their, fan base.

Don't charge them anything.

And let's do exactly what you do with the SEC.

And let's just charge their sponsors.

said, God, I love that.

At the time, Eric.

I had a year and a half year olds.

I had a one and a half year old son.

Um, my wife was still at home with him.

I was nervous as a cat on a 10 roof, bro.

I like, I was like, and so I told him that night, I'm like, let me talk to my wife.

I talked to her and here's what my wife said to me.

This is right up your alley.

And I, that's the first time in my life, I can remember having fear like that.

Like I was like, cause Mark's like, I don't have any money, but we'll just split this revenue.

Like we'll just split the, you, whatever I said, whatever you would just split it, split it.

Right.

I do that because I was getting money coming in.

didn't want to risk that.

So long story short, I called him the next day and he goes, let's go, let's go, let's go.

And I said, man, I'm going have to pass.

He said, well, you're not the man I thought you were.

And then I got agitated and I'm like, this coming from a guy who has big servers in his warehouse and you hadn't had a bath a week when I saw you.

So I don't need that kind of noise.

He said, let me tell you something, pal.

He said, one day you're going to look back at this and realize this was the biggest financial mistake you ever made.

And I said, yeah, right.

Four and a half years later, I pick up the newspaper and he has sold that business for $6 billion to Yahoo.

Yup.

Now, why I tell that story is this.

You have to be careful about rooms you entering and being able to know really who's in that room, not just presently, but to come and being able to diagnose and dissect people.

And you can't get it right.

I hadn't, I mean, I'm not saying that I should, I would now know that this was a play for 6 billion.

I'm not saying that what I'm saying is it made me alert to every room I walk in.

Sometimes we walk into rooms casually.

Sometimes we walk into rooms with aggression, but what we don't do is realize who's in the room and the impact it has on the room.

And so, uh, the great, and one of the things, one of the closing things Cuban told me that I'll never forget.

said, you have created a category that's going to change monetizing these websites forever.

And when he told me it had no register on me, it's like, I'm like, I don't even know what this he's talking about.

But that from that point to people like all the time, man, you regret.

I'm like, I don't know that regret is the right word.

It's made me alert.

It's made me start realizing I can't just casually walking around in life.

just, you know, not understand.

The potential in every room I go in, honestly, Eric, I guard myself from going into some rooms because I have this ability to kind of see things through conversations that are

happening.

And I'm not trying to be mystical here.

I'm just saying there's, I've developed a gift in me that allows me to be able to read rooms pretty successfully and to know, uh, what's happening.

That's not being said.

That's the key.

We can all read dashboards.

We can all see that he sold for $6 billion.

The question is, what did I miss before?

Like, what was it about me that wasn't able to catch on to what was uh ultimately could have been a game changer for us financially?

I have missed other opportunities, not like that.

But every time it is, is when I become uh blind to what's right before my very eyes.

And so one of the things that I teach leaders is this, you've got to go in and rather than just trying to get what you need to say out, you've got to go in and start being alert to

the room who's in it.

Why are they there?

What are they saying?

What are you reading from them?

And how do you respond?

And that's what elite leaders do.

Good leaders, great leaders.

No, I want to be an elite leader.

And where your elite leader is being able to see things that others don't feel things that others kind of

discount and it creates an ability that you can transfer that energy into new opportunities.

so um the rooms that you're in, and some of you who might be hearing this, the casualness of your life in terms of opportunities in rooms that you're getting in with people that

maybe you just kind of discarded, those people may be a big part of your future.

And so learning to read the signs and to understand what's not being said and being felt is critical to leadership.

Long story, sorry about that, but it's important for people to understand even in their smaller companies where you got 10, 12, 15, 25 people understanding the room, what has off

from the last time we met, what is happening to these people?

Because if there's something going on that they're not talking to you about, it's going to show up in their performance.

How do we get to that place where they feel comfortable enough in this community to be able to express that, to talk about that, work through that, be supported in that, and

find success on the other side of it.

Shut up.

no, that's great.

So on the, like when you connect with the company and step in to start coaching and leading them through that, how do you start developing that awareness in the leaders and

the rest in the company to be able to read the room on that level and gain that level of vulnerability to discuss those things that maybe they don't want to discuss?

So the first thing that teach leaders is you've to, you've got to show, uh, you've got to, uh, you've got to give an example of what the behavior should look like.

Right.

So if you're not vulnerable and you're not open, you can't force others to be.

They just don't sit modeled in you.

They're not going to do it.

The reason Dominic Sarah is so, are so successful is what they, you see in their people started with what you saw in them.

And it's a, that's that culture that builds to a community kind of approach.

They've decided they're not sitting there going like y'all need to do this.

They're only they're saying, do this, follow me.

Cause this is the way we live.

This is the, this is the way what we believe, how we behave in the boundaries we operate in anybody interested in that join us.

And so, uh, there there's a modeling effect that I think that.

people have got to understand as leaders.

If you want people to do something, you better model it because what you modeled, it'll show up in their lives.

It's just that simple.

So for me, the first thing that I do is I come in and I want to, I don't want to talk about what you do and how you do it.

I want to know why you do it.

The first step to finding a different new path or find a correction that's needed is when we're self-aware.

enough to understand my why is what drives me.

need to understand it.

Let me explain that to you.

I, my life I've had many, many times where I've said this thing to me, my own self, and that is this, why do you do what you do?

Why did you do that?

Like, why did you, or why did this person do that?

Because the why you do things determines the what and how you do it.

So a why

is an internal operating system.

It's what gets us up.

It's what drives our choices and our decisions.

And so I want to know with just the leadership, I start with just leadership.

I want to know what their why is.

I want to know, and I test them on that.

I sent that assessment to you as well.

And so it helps me to identify who's in the room.

Like who's in the room?

Do we have the right people?

balance wise in the room.

Do you need someone who's more in tune to this and, maybe because what a lot of times happens is we'll hire the same kind of people and run them all into the room and they do

the same thing.

And so the things that they don't do don't get done.

And so if you've got a bunch of the same people that have the same traits and characteristics, it's sometimes hard to get traction in the detailed part of our business

because you know, we're all just.

flying at 30,000 feet, somebody's got to be on the ground that's delivering the promises and the vision of the organization.

And so I want to look at their why, right?

And then if we need to make some adjustments there, we'll make adjustments.

Now the whys I'm talking about, like for me, I am a, what they call a, uh, make sense guy.

So with me.

My why, I get up every day and I think of when such situation circumstances, people problems come out way.

I'm trying to make sense of them.

And until I can make sense of something, I can't move forward.

Now my wife is a right way person.

That's another one of the characteristics.

There's one way to do it.

And if we get off that path, everything's going to screw up.

And so.

Sometimes we've had a real difficult communication problems in times in the past because I'm like, you may say this the right way, but if I don't understand it, I'm not going to

cooperate.

And so that's caused the dynamic in our relationship.

Thankfully that we've kind of got past, but some of the conflict and challenges inside of companies is just that we just don't know, understand why people do what they do.

And once we get that clear, it makes us better communicators.

handling conflict better and at least gets us pushed in the right direction.

So the why is critically important to me, but the why is not enough.

You've got to go to step two to me, which is the who, right?

And I'm not talking about just who by name or by talent or by gift.

Here's what I'm looking for.

If we all know each other's why, how do we pair the right who's together to create lift for the entire organization?

So this is about amplification.

So if I find the right pairing,

my efforts and theirs will amplify not just me and them, but everybody around us.

So pairing inside of business to create collaborative chemistry is so important to additional growth.

And so I'm looking at why, and that's like, oh I'm a, no, how am I paired, who in this organization is there a potential good pairing with based upon our whys to produce

something neither of us could do by ourselves?

And then the final step of it is the what.

The what is how we go about it.

See, here's the problem.

The problem is we are starting to solve problems at the wrong end of the problem.

So we go in and do this.

I mean, like I said, I'm in the roofing space and I know I got a lot of friends who coach and I call them these, these, they're, they're, they're superheroes from an activity

standpoint.

They'll go in.

and they'll crank your team up.

They're cold calling.

They're not door knocking.

They'll give them sales tools.

And it's just like, bam, bam, let's go, let's go, let's go.

And I'm like this, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

So if you've got a guy that's a sales person for you and you've asked them to knock 50 doors a day and up that 50 doors a day, they have got no results.

What kind of logical sense does it make to say this?

Hey, Eric,

Instead of knocking 50 today, go knock 100 tomorrow.

Because we have been led to believe that putting our hands and making our hands hustle and grind harder is the answer to our problems.

It's not true.

So what I believe is you've got to start on the other end of the problem.

And that's like when I get to a door and I, before my knuckles hit the door, my finger hit the doorbell.

What am I thinking?

And what am I thinking?

our feeling, and how do we correct that?

So that

that 50 doesn't become 100 of uselessness.

We need to get people earlier in the right place mentally and emotionally to do the task.

And then when our hands land, they're gonna be more productive.

And so I work very, very well with other coaches who are built the backend of it, meaning the activity side of it.

um I try to prep people before the activity begins.

Because if their mind is right and their emotions are in check, they're going to have more success.

And I've got data out my way.

I out of every, I mean, it's just everywhere supporting this.

oh And then with even just at a level of, you know, C level with, you know, your leadership team.

I work with more companies who initially can't stand being in the same room with each other and are running successful businesses.

But inevitably what happens is.

something that has been kind of hidden and kept out of conversation surfaces and it just blows the whole landscape of the leadership team up.

So the same holds true for them.

Can we figure out why we do what we do?

Does that serve in the needs of our company most effectively?

And um how do we execute properly so the team around us realizes that we're bought in so they feel safe to do the same thing?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah.

So why?

Who?

What?

So I was sorry, I was looking away here for just a minute.

I pulled up that assessment you sent me.

I'm also a make sense kind of person.

um What um I didn't get to the how.

I must not have clicked through all the way or something there.

you should have got your wine was what makes sense.

So when you, and you said earlier that that was spot on, how do you go about that?

What is your process of that look like?

I'm just curious.

So like if my, if makes for me makes sense is if I can't make sense of something, I don't move forward.

How does that, when you look at your life and you're saying it's spot on,

What did you mean by that?

Meaning that makes sense guy.

Yeah, I have to put the, the why I got to know why I'm doing something and I have to know the end goal and where it's going.

And, uh, yeah, I get, sorry, your, uh, story with Mark Cuban and broadcast brought this to mind.

I had a friend come to me.

Uh, I have a background in computer science and computers, uh, as well.

And it was, gosh, like way early on, like

2009, I had a friend come to me when Bitcoin had just come out and he had this great idea.

we're you know, the computers, you're going to build all these servers and we're going to start mining Bitcoin and and get rich doing that.

And I sat down and thought I was going to teach him something showed him the math that um the energy it took to mine the Bitcoin cost more than what the Bitcoin we were mining was

worth.

And I'm like, this is futile.

I'm not doing that.

It doesn't make sense to me.

And

16 years later, I kind of wish I would have gone for it, but.

I I know the feeling.

absolutely know the feeling, but you know, it's that's, that's kind of the process I go through with companies and hopefully it's given them.

Cause ideally here's what I believe.

I believe that most of our deficiencies in business and in relationships is that there is what I call a wobble.

There's something going on that we can't quite figure out yet because we're not.

And helping people to detect what that really is and learn giving them taking enough courage to be able to deal with it before it shows up.

It's kind of like early detection.

Like how do we detect something early before it gets so out of hand that uh it causes greater damage than it should have if we'd have dealt with it.

Our problem is sometimes we just don't feel comfortable sharing it.

We're embarrassed by it sometimes, or we don't want people to think

were less than what they maybe have thought about us before, if that was revealed.

And what they don't realize is it's just draining them more and that there are people that are there with them who can help them, but they have to be able to release it.

And most people don't wanna do that.

Okay.

Well, that's really fascinating to me.

And so I'm diving into kind of a technical question that I didn't give you a heads up for.

So do you know or have available what, what are the other whys?

And you were talking about putting together a team that they kind of work together.

Can you give us an example of pairing people with a different why and how that's complimentary?

So let me give you a real quickly.

Hold on just a second.

I got a little sheet here, a cheat sheet I need to look at.

This will help me because so there are nine whys.

And so let me start out by just giving you those nine.

And the science behind this has data rich to support it.

But here are the nine.

Number one is they call better way.

Now better way is

These are people that are constantly seeking improvement, innovation and optimization.

The second is a challenger.

They thrive on disrupting the room.

I mean, these are the people that come into meetings and just throw chairs just for the sake of throwing chairs.

Like they're just trying to test people and test limits and provoking these ways of thinking.

Then you've got these people who are what they call mastery.

They are driven to gain depth, knowledge, skill and expertise in everything that they do.

And until they have all the information,

They ain't going nowhere.

And sometimes what they do is they spend so much time trying to gather more information and lose the opportunity.

Clarify is the next group.

They are driven to make things clear and understandable.

And here's the key for everybody.

Not just they're clear, they want everybody to be clear.

Then you've got make sense people, which is me and you, that we quickly connect dots.

We spot patterns and we find these practical solutions.

where others only see chaos.

Then you got right way people.

That's my wife.

They're driven to do things the correct and proven way.

You've got trust people.

They believe in doing what's right and expect the same from others.

Then you've got simplify people.

They're driven to make things easier, cleaner, and more efficient.

Again.

Not as much about understanding as you get from clarify people.

It's about the efficiency of the task.

And then finally you've got the why of contribute.

These are people that are driven to make a meaningful.

Difference in the lives of others.

So when I generally do these assessments, you will get your why OS, which is your operating system, mine.

So all nine of those show up in me and they show up in you, but where they show up.

After our first three, my first three are make sense.

And then I want to take after I make sense, I want to make it better.

So that's my how it's like, make it better.

So when I got certified with this why Institute, the first thing I did was start looking at going like, how can I make this thing better?

And it's wonderful already, but that's just my nature because here's what I want to do.

I want a great idea or

something that makes great sense, I want it to be so usable for people.

That's my third thing, which is contribution.

So when I can bring that good sense out of a complex problem and I've simplified it down to where I think it's even better than the original and I could deliver it to people who

need it, my life feels fulfilled.

So that's my free.

These others fall in sequence after that.

uh

but less shows up, right?

Like some of them I'm competent in and they give me energy, but there's three at the end that just drain me.

And so this gives you kind of a wide matrix of, so then the second part of your question is, it also gives me the opportunity, like I could show you this, but I put these metrics

together for companies and we put people in these groups.

Like here's a friction zone, this type of person,

with this kind of person is going to create.

So like if you've got a person who's mastery minded, they'd need all the details, they wanna know more, they go deeper.

And then you've got a simplified person that goes like, dude, come on.

You

You don't go anywhere.

idea though is how do we take both of those skills and even in the people with friction, how do we build a bridge so that they can start working together?

And so one of the things that I do, I think pretty well for companies is even start inspiring pairings of people who look like they're friction filled with each other and put

them together and give them the objective behind the project.

understanding each other's why.

now the mastery guy goes like, okay, I got this simplified person in here.

Where's the balance in between?

want deep.

I want understanding, but boy, I want it simple too.

And so when you know,

who you're dealing with.

And if you're smart and you're trying to build community, you'll take that in consideration the way you communicate with them.

They'll also know your why.

And now we've started dialogue that becomes uh productive.

Even when we come into conflict, if I know my wife is a right way person, this happened last night.

She told me a story after she got off work and it frustrated me.

And I went like,

That just doesn't make sense to me.

So here's exactly what I said to her, honey, I need you to help me with something.

She said, okay, what I said, I'm, anxious about this.

You told me something that made me anxious.

And, uh, she said, it's because it didn't make sense.

Right.

I said, right.

So she said, tell me what didn't make sense and let's walk you through it.

And I'm like, perfect.

And in two minutes, all of it left, like I was like, Oh, makes perfect sense.

And I was able to move forward.

And so when you start understanding people's why, why they act like that, you go into a meeting and you know, they throw chairs.

I'm just using it, not literally, hopefully, but where they're just challenging everything, you know, that's their why.

And so they've been got to understand that that can be obnoxious and that can be difficult and that can be scary to some people.

So you just have to learn first of all, identify it.

And then how do we work all this into a cohesive, uh, collective of people who are putting all they have into a place they belong and it'll produce results you'd never have dreamed

possible.

But unless you know, you can't factor these things in and we'd leave thinking I'm safer in a silo.

Interesting.

Yeah, I know I'm uh I tested for the make sense and then uh make better and clarify simplify are probably going to be the trailing ones there.

Those I was probably right on the border between make sense and make better.

So yeah.

they, that's, that's me.

I make sense a better way and contribute.

And

so, um, and then like, for example, this is interesting in my trust is like number seven.

And the, I've found that I've figured out why I figured out the reason it's so low on my, like when I get so zones, four, five and six, which are the middle band of the, of my YLS,

I draw when I'm in those, I draw comfort and I feel it because I feel like I'm contributing and it gives me energy.

Doesn't drain me.

The last three, which trust is in is number seven.

It's draining to me because I have been.

promised and trusted people in the past and they've disappointed me.

And so now trust is not, is more transactional for me with other people.

Now it's not what I present to I feel like I'm trustworthy.

It's not that.

It's how I perceive conversations with other people.

And so if somebody in a why, like my why is, like I said, makes sense, if their why is trust,

We're going to have to jockey a little bit upfront because I'm like, we don't know each other.

have no, you see what I'm saying?

And it's those kinds of dynamics that help people understand each other.

How in God's name could you work with somebody you don't understand yet?

We do it all the time.

We guess our way through our relationships internally when we don't have to.

Why not just identify?

This is the way Eric shows up.

This is why he shows up.

This is what motivates him.

This is that internal operating system showing up every day.

And if I know you're a make sense guy and I come into your office and even though I sound intelligent and I have a lot of great ideas, if I see that look on your face like, and I

realized that I've got to take this complex world that I've worked so hard on and go like Eric, we can do here it is, but now look what we've done.

This is the sense that we can take from this data.

Then Eric goes like, oh, okay.

Now Eric takes it and goes like, how about this?

Why don't we tweak it here, here, here?

That better way comes out of you.

And now you've take, but it would have never happened if that person had come into your office and given you data that was not usable because it didn't make sense to you.

So now as a leader, I tell leaders, you need to go into your team and say this.

do all the hard and complex work you wanna do, but when you walk in that door that has my name on it, you need to come in and have taken all your data and it just has to make sense

to me.

So don't try to impress me.

Don't try to make me think you're really smart.

I already know you are.

What makes you really relevant in my life is if you can take all of this research and make sense to me while we need to move

forward with the next step.

That's interesting.

As you were saying that I was realizing, I think even in my language that comes out a lot.

When somebody's giving me a sales pitch, probably the best compliment I can give them on the back end of that is that makes a lot of sense.

And when I'm explaining something to some of my people or even working with my kids, I wrap up the conversation or sum everything up with not how do you feel about that.

Did that make sense?

Does that make sense to you?

think about this.

Think about this.

What if you do the whine behind all your children?

Mmm.

See, this is not just about self-identification so that Eric knows I make sense of things and everybody needs to understand it.

No, the people that matter to you, if you know their why, you enhance even your parental skill.

Because now it's not just make sense, but how do, what is their language when it comes to that?

What is their why?

And so all of a sudden now Eric has made sense.

but they want their better way.

Let's just say better way.

And so you have to give them room to go in and say, does this make sense?

And they go like, well, I don't know what.

Okay.

So if you could position this a better way for you, how would you do that?

So now you're appealing to, I'm not trying to be too brainy here, but that limbrick side of our brain, it's that part of us that feels and is emotional and it drives us to, it's

not the rational part of our brain.

That's that frontal cortex.

That's not it.

People buy when they feel and they are, they are emotional about something, but you gotta know what triggers them.

And it's not manipulation, dude.

It's communication.

If I know my wife,

Uh, is right way, which she is.

I know there's a correct way in her mind.

And as much as it makes sense to me, if it don't seem like the straight and narrow, we ain't getting by in how, what if you knew that about your wife?

We guess, my wife's why is this?

You don't know.

You don't.

I've seen people act out and things and I go like, well, there, why is this?

And I was.

As far as I am from the moon today off, like winning close.

And so one of the things that I tell owners all the time is the first thing you need to do is spend a little money and find out there why it will be a launching pad for now clearing

the deck in terms of how people think and feel.

And I'll give you one last story on this and shut up about it.

I've got a client right now.

I started dealing with them about three months ago and, uh, and I have a three month program.

We meet twice a month and that's it.

And then I kind of set them up and then if we need, if I need some ongoing support for them, I'll do that.

But we're in our third month and yesterday, I'm sorry, two days ago, we did this.

I had them the last week fill out their why I compute, I pulled it all together.

I built the matrix for them and we met on it yesterday and, uh, or day before.

And so I'm sitting there and I'm showing, I'm watching their eyes.

Like I can see them on the screen and I'm like, they're like, okay, there's mine.

There's mine.

But here's this guy, Reggie, what does this mean?

I was like, well, it means this.

They go like, my God.

And I'm like, so why are you saying that?

They go like, that makes sense to me.

We have been battling each other, which is hurt trust.

It's hurt foundational build for us.

We don't, you know, we're just kind of, but now I understand.

For example, one of the ladies said,

You know, this guy, other guy called his skills set was mastery.

Hers was contribute.

And so she's the HR director.

He runs sales and they are just like this, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.

Cause she's like, no, she's simplified.

I'm sorry.

So she goes in and goes like, uh why you keep asking all these questions?

This is not that complicated.

What she didn't realize is why he does that is because he needs to know more, get deep.

So you need to give him the details.

And she went like, my God, like this makes sense.

Right.

And then he chirps up and goes like, now I know why you hate me so much.

It's like, your approach is let's just simplify, you know, and I'm like, no, I want to go deep.

I said, so the key is this, now that you know this about both, how does it change the conversation?

So she goes, well, I need to give you more detail.

And he goes, I don't need as much detail.

So you see what I'm saying?

Now we got a bridge where the communication becomes more efficient and effective for one reason and one reason only, they know each other's why.

Yeah.

You're really finding a shortcut to, you know, you walk into teams that have been together for 20, 30 years and they understand each other.

They know how to communicate.

They know what each other needs and you're building the shortcut.

We can get there in three months instead of 30 years.

Yeah, well, actually that, that assessment wall started following down that had been built for 10 years in 10 minutes.

Cause people were finally going like, Oh, okay.

Now I understand.

one of the keys to great communications is understanding who you're talking to, understanding that, you know, your opinion is yours, but it doesn't mean it's.

going to be received the way you're even giving it to other people.

Why don't you want to have some discovery time about the people that are on your payroll?

I don't understand that from people.

And the reason is they've never had the tool to do that.

The second thing is why would you not want to know the impact of the way people feel and think affect the way they perform?

I've got tools that help people to identify that.

And so if you think that

These factors factor into performance.

You're one phone call away from us being able to help.

And it's just, you've got to, you've got to take the guesswork out of your business.

And that's what I'm helping people do.

Okay.

So you said kind of your primary product or your full-fledged product is um six sessions.

uh So you say the first session you kind of do the assessment, the second session you put together the matrix, bring it all together, help everybody understand each other.

What are the remaining four?

What kind of things do you help with and walk through?

How do we lay the right foundation?

Because whether you're building wide or high, you need a good foundation.

So the foundational issues that start with leadership and other things that I call them are standards.

What are our standards?

What is it that we as a leadership group will decide upon today that we begin to migrate into our business?

so alignment is critical.

Like it's just critical and alignment to me is best explained.

Can I tell you another story?

If not, I'm going to do it anyway.

Well, I've got one in me, I'm sure.

But the first car I

ever drove was a 1972 Ford red Pinto.

My dad gave me the keys and he said, here you go, champ.

And, so, you know, I don't know if you've ever even seen one of those, but it was a, just a death trap.

there was, it was horrible.

In fact, they quit making them.

but I had one.

And so when I first started driving and even still till today, speed bumps are optional to me.

Like I just like, you know, it's like they're not, I'm not all of them.

don't slow down on what's that little Ford red Pinto.

I just blow over those speed bumps.

about three weeks into me driving that thing, I noticed this little wobble on my steering wheel.

Like, and I'm like, that's weird.

So I was taught still today, if there's a problem with your car, it'll usually show up on the dashboard.

Like I can look down and see if my tires are low.

I can look down now and see if I need oil or gas or whatever.

And so you start trusting the dashboard.

The problem is dashboards don't pick up wobbles or misalignment.

So I didn't know that.

So I just kept on driving and every day it would get a little bit worse to where it eventually it got to be such a hard pull.

It literally landed me in a ditch.

And so I remember when it starts

part of pulling, I thought, this is weird.

So I stopped the car and I got around and I looked at it.

I didn't even know what I was looking at, but I'm like, well, maybe there's something dragging here.

There's maybe I even popped the hood and I'm like, I didn't even know what I was looking at, but it was just something I thought I got to find this.

Well, what I didn't realize is the car was just out of alignment.

And when the card gets out of alignment, it starts pulling you off path.

So though it didn't show up on a dashboard, it was still real.

You know what that little Ford red Pinto taught me that wobbles are real.

There are indicators of something you need to pay attention of though.

You don't even know what it is yet.

And so before you get thrown into a ditch, let's find out what that is.

And it may take a little bit of time.

But when we find it, we can correct it.

So all of the tools I use are to create a sense of uh stability inside of companies.

If we're aligned, there's a stabilizing uh strategy inside of our company that everybody can hold to.

um When the spin of life gets fast, we're still safe.

One last thing.

story on alignment when I was growing in school, it used to be, I don't know if they do that anymore, but we'd go into a room beginning of the year and the teachers would have

these globes sitting on desk or somewhere in the room.

And I always noticed that the globes were tilted and I literally would go up and I would try to straighten it.

thought, well, maybe it's bent.

And one day, I think it was my sixth grade teacher.

She came up to him.

She's like, what are you doing?

I said, this globe is bent.

She said, no, it's not.

It's tilted.

I'm like, okay, tilted or bent, it needs to be straightened out.

So I put my hands in and she goes, no, no, no, no, no, stop.

Let me show you what I mean.

So she went up to the chalkboard and she said, let me show you an ax.

She said, the earth is tilted for, I mean, this globe is tilted for a reason because the earth sits on an axis.

I said, she said, you know what an axis is?

I said, no, ma'am.

She said, well, at the core of the earth, the equator, there is a, it's not visible, but the earth is tilted.

at a 23.5 degree angle.

And she said, it's been like that for years and usually there's not a tilt change in the earth, but every two to 5,000 years.

And so she's like, there's a reason for it.

She said, Reggie, you ever, she said, do you know how fast the earth spins?

I said, no, ma'am.

She said a thousand miles an hour.

Wow.

She said, Hey, now, don't you wonder why we're all able to stand up and the world's not in chaos?

I said, yes, ma'am.

She said, it's because the earth sits on an axis and that perfect tilt is set exactly at the degree it's set at to keep us safe in the span.

She said, there's a final thing to this.

It's called the moon.

You know what the moon is?

Yes, ma'am.

Do you know what?

effect the moon has on the earth and it was there's more of them but this was one specific i said no ma'am she said the earth the moon's gravitational pull is aimed at that axis to

keep it at 23.5 degrees you see eric i believe this most businesses go into chaos because they've just lost their axis the tilt the proper axial tilt

And so when you find that exit, that sweet spot inside of your business, that stabilizer, everybody who comes in that tries to create chaos in the stabilized environment you have

created will not last.

They disrupt your company.

They disrupt your culture.

They disrupt the community.

And if you have the right stabilizer, that tilt in place, you'll recognize it quickly.

And so.

One of the things I do early in a company is I go in and measure the chaos level.

Like how much hair is on fire here?

Like what are, I mean, what's going on that's creating all the turmoil and all.

And so what I'm finding out is they've just lost their tilt.

There's just nothing that's they've got, they've got off track.

And so when you get off track, the spin of life comes in your business and everything becomes chaotic.

Betty, when you're at the right axial tilt, your business is stable and it's unshakable and unmovable.

It doesn't matter how, and what people try to do is control the spin and you can't do it.

You can't slow life down.

You can't slow challenges down.

You just got to be better prepared for them.

And that's what we do is help people stabilize so that no matter how fast the spin gets, there's something that is tilted properly that keeps your business or your relationships.

Safe.

Okay, so is that the axis eight?

Yeah, so axis, that's the axis.

And then the eight is the number of continuous.

So we've kind of constantly got to be mindful of are we staying in, in, in proper tilt and balance.

I can see that uh the old preacher tendencies coming out in you.

You nailed it all.

You got your hook, three points, bring it to a close, tell you what I'm gonna tell you, tell you, tell you what I told you.

Got the humor in there, you're a great storyteller.

yeah, the only thing left is take an offering.

Yeah, that comes at the end of the show here.

well, I mean, that's a part of the training of preaching, wouldn't you know?

And I don't do that, so we're good.

Well, I guess that's a good segue.

Maybe just the opposite.

You are bringing some free content for our listeners rather than asking for an offender offering today.

Do you want to tell them about that?

So we've been talking about this why assessment and I want to give 10 of those to the first 10 who contact me.

I want to give you one of these, uh, assessments for free.

and I think what it will do is it open your eyes a little bit, not just to your individual kind of why, but the power it could bring to understanding the team dynamic, the chemistry

required, the collaboration opportunity that exists.

so for the first 10 who reach out to me by email,

I'll send them that assessment free of charge and I'll also set up a time to have a conversation with them for about 30 minutes just about what they can take from it, what

are the learns behind this and what are the opportunities maybe in front of them.

And uh happy to do that for the first 10 who contact me.

Awesome.

Well, we'll make sure we get your email address and your website and all your information in the show notes so you guys can check the show notes.

Make sure that you reach out to Reggie.

I realize he gave me one of these assessments when we first connected and I've now realized I didn't finish it.

So I'm going to make sure I finish it all the way through.

yup.

Yeah.

When, when you asked what my how was, I finished the why I thought that was done.

And I looked at the results and I didn't see there was more to go.

So.

I'm going to make sure I finish mine and see how that ends up.

had uh some of my top leaders do it as well.

I'm really excited to see where we land and, how we can connect more.

Great.

Well, you've told us a lot of really interesting stories.

Um, man, you have lived some life.

You've been through some stuff.

I want to hear a little bit more about, uh, some of that.

Um,

You mentioned a lot of setbacks in life, a lot of difficult things, um you know, leaving home from a father that set a pretty high bar, experiencing a divorce, losing a job, um

your interaction with Mark Cuban and losing that opportunity.

What has been the most difficult thing you've walked through and how has that shaped what you do today and how you bring people together?

Yeah.

So the hardest thing I still face every day is the disappointment and hurt I've put on people.

Like that is a constant motivator for me.

Listen, let me tell you something.

Pain is hard to deal with, much less coming from somebody you love.

And care about, and I have, um, I mean, I've got scars.

I've made put scars on people and it's a motivator for me to realize the impact that our decisions have, not just on our own lives, but others.

And I think sometimes we get in this bubble of existence that just serves ourselves.

And we just think everybody else is just, yeah, you know,

They're resilient.

They'll understand.

And we just lost a sense of, of, know, really being mindful at that level of our decisions and how they affect other people.

so the greatest lesson I learned is that every decision I make has a cascading effect on people in my ecosystem.

And so I don't make decisions anymore without the thought of

Not the thought, but the reality of every decision that I will make will show up in the lives of other people who are close to me and are in my ecosystem.

I have to guard not just for me, but for them.

And so again, I'm a big community guy.

And so if you get in my community and I'm in your community, then there takes on a different level of responsibility that no longer is just.

mind to own.

It affects too many people.

And so we live our lives so much time just thinking, you know, I can do this and ain't nobody know.

It's not the way it works.

There is this ripple effect that we have, not just as leaders, but as human beings that like, we got to be careful that we're managing our decisions with the forethought that it

affects more than just me.

And I, I have got to a point to where that is more than significant.

It's a way of life for me.

Like I sit and think, like sometimes I'll see stuff, you know, and we live in kind of a click and know, like world, you know, where everybody, know, you want to say something

that people pay attention to and, know, get you some popularity.

And I've realized that managing.

What I say, how I say it and who I say it is critically important, not just to me, but to people that are in my ecosystem.

And that's the greatest lesson that I have ever, ever learned uh that still lives with me today.

That's great.

I think that's a common trait among great leaders is they're not as inward focused and they understand how their life affects those around them.

uh yeah, personally, I think that's a huge mark of maturity is you can tell someone who's lived some life and been through some hard stuff.

uh They, they carry themselves differently.

And I think what you just articulated, they have a

a delicacy towards handling the people around them in a positive way or a careful way anyway.

um That's great.

just more intentional.

It's just like, you know, people trust me.

Um, people depend on me.

People look to me and I take that seriously.

And as we progress in life, when you start talking about legacy, for example, your legacy, once you're gone is established.

And so when I, my legacy.

will be based on the life I lived, not some made up story when I'm gone.

Like I'm, I'm building my legacy today.

Like, uh, and so every decision I make affects that.

Like what are people, I had somebody asked me in an interview the other day, like, what do you want people to think about you when you're gone?

I said the same thing they think about me when I'm here.

He said, what do you mean?

I said, I want them to leave my presence with this knowledge.

I'm better off because of.

I do something to enhance their life, pressing them forward because of maybe my experience, the season of life.

I mean, I don't care what you call it.

It's just, there's something I've said that has motivated them to keep on.

Like just keep on because I hear what I do know.

If I sit down in the chair and refuse to move, I'm, I will starve to death because ain't nobody bringing me anything to eat.

I've got to go.

to the table and prepare myself for the food that's available to me.

And so that's a simple story, but it's true to me.

I'm not gonna sit back and wait for things.

I'm gonna be patient.

I'm gonna do what's in my heart for the community I'm a part of.

And my legacy will be the same when I'm gone as it is today, if I have anything to do it.

And that is this guy was as much about and more about me than he was about himself.

And if I can pull that piece off, my life's been worth living.

Amen.

That sounds good to me.

And a lot of my favorite questions you've answered just in your storytelling already.

um I'm scrolling through my list here looking for some good ones.

But you work a lot with uh blue collar guys, a lot in the roofing industry, I would imagine with a lot of young leaders.

If you have one piece of advice for a young leader to help them mature, help them build a community in their business, what would that piece of advice be?

Yeah.

It would be people before process.

We lit we're in a place right now to where we think that if you have the right process and the systems in place, as helpful as they are, you get in the cart before the horse.

You need to be doing things that are inspiring the success of those systems by those using the systems and the processes.

And so I think that we've been, we're spending our money on processes and systems.

Um, and we need to do that, but when they can't prioritize our thought process, which is it's gotta be about people.

It's gotta be about people.

And everybody says that like, eh, you know, my business is about people.

Well, it doesn't show up.

And so every time that there's a, uh, a challenge inside of organizations that I work with, the first thing that most of them look at is how do we refine the process?

What's the system and they're looking, going to conferences and and it gets

getting coaches coming in.

I'm like, dude, I don't care what system you have.

Pick a new CRM, pick a new, I get you a new KPI database.

It doesn't matter until you can tend to the soul of your business, which is your people and you get them bought in and connected.

I don't care what system you have.

I don't care what coach you have come in.

If they're not

a part of a community that they feel belong to.

They're not going to contribute to the level you need.

And all you'll do is keep spending money on systems and processes.

Stop the madness, start focusing in on why your people show up every day.

How do you pair them together to do magic beyond what they can do themselves and then show them the path of the task.

And if you do that, processes will take care of their place.

Now, all my friends who hear this, I'm not saying your processes are not important.

And your systems are not significant, but what I'm telling you is this, you've got the cart before the horse and you can have a great process.

listen, I don't care to the, there, there's the truth is the Kentucky Derby.

That track is as great.

it beautiful?

But I don't run donkeys on it.

Like I can't take a donkey to the Kentucky.

So it's a great track, but if you got the wrong horse on there, so to speak, it doesn't matter.

And so I'm more about how do we develop the people and then y'all figure out what system and process you won't.

don't care.

That's the how part of the business, the why and the who part of the business is where I get in and get neck deep.

Okay, that's good advice.

if you invite me in, even if you don't, I'm going to tell you for straight up your problems.

got to deal with your problems at the right end of the problem.

And the right end of the problem is your people, the way they're thinking, the way they're feeling, because the way they're thinking and the way they're feeling is showing up and

what they do and how they do it.

My God, this is not complicated, but we've made it that way.

And the reason is

We, we have bought like in roofing, I don't know about your space, but in roofing in particular, we just accepted the fact that it's a six to eight week, uh, career commitment

to us is just normal.

Like we, we lose people with great regularity and the only people making money in roofing right now and recruiting is recruiters.

So I say to people build something that people don't want to just come to, but want to stay at.

Mike, you know, like it may be attractive, like, you can make six figures your first year and they absolutely can.

But the question is, what are you building that's going to make people want to come there and think just past the money?

Forbes magazine just did a report about why people come and go in companies.

The first thing they said is that 48.7 % of people employed today are looking for another job.

And the only reason they're not going to another job is because they ain't found it yet.

Half of the workforce, not you in particular, but that you have right now possibly is looking for another gig.

And the reason is not because there's bad benefits, bad money, bad culture, it's because they don't feel like they belong.

The contribution has never been acknowledged.

Their involvement has never been put as a priority to the guy or gal that's running, you know, their division or their role or whatever.

And so if you can just keep, make people feel like get up every day and you showing up matters, they'll, you cannot beat them away with a big stick, dude.

They just won't leave because this is where I belong.

And as long as I feel like, and that's what Forbes said, the number one reason

People leave and are looking is because they just don't feel like who they are and what they do fits where they're at.

that I see that true in our business.

uh I am in roofing myself, commercial roofing and we do most of our production in house.

So roofing in Wyoming, the production side, that's a tough job.

It's tough.

And some of my best employees are, call them boomerang employees.

They came and started their career with us and there's aspects of our job that sucks.

It's not fun.

So they leave because they don't like the job.

And then they come back because they love working for me.

They love working in our organization.

They love where they're at.

The job still sucks.

There are some aspects of it, but, uh, they, they love the environment that they work in.

So my, my most loyal guys, my best guys are boomerangs.

So I love that, that description.

I think, you know, in roofing, you know, I started out in residential and, know, in Texas and in this, I mean, storm season is March through September ish kind of October, maybe,

but the best work comes when it's the hottest outside.

And so we're knocking doors and we're up on roofs and the ambient temperature is 120 degrees and we're standing up on asphalt shingles.

It ain't easy.

like knocking doors and talking to people.

And I mean, it's not an easy gig, but it makes it a lot easier when you like the people you're with and you feel your contribution doesn't just matter to you, but to them, it

does.

And so I'm trying to inspire belonging.

I'm trying to inspire community.

And these are just tools that I use to reveal that and get people to thinking, Hey, our people, once they're equipped and they're stable and they're strong,

My God, they could turn the world upside down.

That's great.

I love that you're out there doing that and helping people and it sounds like you have a great program that can move people that direction really well.

So I can tell, I mean, you've clearly grown, developed, matured a lot over your lifetime.

It sounds a lot of that has been some hard lesson learned, but are there any resources that you feel have really contributed to your growth and maturing that you could recommend

to others?

Yeah.

Well, number one, I think everything I do is hinge.

The hinge point is my fate.

Um, I, know, I'm, uh, in my fate is different than just hearing that people, yeah, everybody.

The reason it matters so much to me is, affected the way I believe in the belief is affected the way I behave.

So if I say I'm something, then there should be evidence of that in my life.

Here's what I tell people all the time.

Don't believe what people say until you see what they do.

When you see what they do, then the words that come out of their mouth later will matter more.

And there's a, just trust what people show you.

And so I see a lot of people that are using their faith, their religion, whatever you want to call it as a leverage point with others.

And they use it to try to manipulate some that disgusts me.

What I know is this, I'm fallen.

I've made mistakes.

I continue to make mistakes, but what I know is what keeps me and my family together is that we believe in something bigger than ourself that has the ability to redeem us and

cause us to live in a place of harmony.

Right.

And then my job is to exhibit that to other people.

I'm not that guy who wants to try to work people up emotionally.

I know it sounds like it, but I mean, I really try to just

I want to engage people's emotions, but I want to leave there.

want them to leave there, not with just a sugar rush, but a protein in them that gives them the ability to continue this on.

When people hear me speak and I travel across the country doing this, one of the things that I always force myself to do is to think in my mind, what is one takeaway somebody can

use?

Take this with them and work at it immediately and see results.

And so um for me,

it starts with my faith because the way I believe affects the way I behave.

And if you don't believe me, just watch.

And so being true to, uh you know, for a young leader, just realize this, they're going to believe more what they see than what you say.

Yep.

And if what you say and what they see does not match up, you'll never lead them.

You may give them a job, but you'll never lead them.

And for me, a great leader, and I don't remember if it was Maxwell or somebody who said it was Maxwell's before his time, but he said, you don't know if you're a leader, look behind

and see if anybody's following.

Mm-hmm.

That sounds like Maxwell.

it, but it was, it was, it was pre Maxwell, but the point was if you think you're elite and they said, if you turn around and nobody's following, the only person you're fooling

is yourself.

You're not a leader.

You're just on a long walk by yourself.

And so for me, I want my influence to be so dynamic that people want more.

And that's not to manipulate.

It's just to help give them morsels of this protein I'm talking about into their system so that they can start developing a new way of thinking and leading and creating atmospheres

and environments where people don't want to just come, but want to stay.

Right.

And, uh, I'm not.

I hate parties.

hate doing my wife.

my God.

She loves it.

She loves going into a room and it's outgoing as you see for me today.

If you saw me at a party, I'm will probably sit over a couch somewhere.

Like I'm not that guy that goes in and just, Hey, well, you know, that's not me, but I just don't like it.

And I'm, I talk for a living.

I spend my time this guy.

So I just like us hanging out.

get with some friends and I'm a good.

conversation is there, but I'm just not that guy that's the life of the party kind of deal.

And the most important thing for me is that people see that what I say I do.

And if you can gather that as a young leader, as a mature leader, or as an elite leader, you'll always have people following you.

And that's what leadership is about.

But you better give them something worth following.

Amen.

Good stuff.

You

Is there an opinion that you had early on that your life experience has caused you to change?

Yeah.

And I think we're living in it today.

We live in a very hustle and grind kind of world.

Like, and to me, I believe in the opposite.

I believe we need to quiet ourselves.

We need to slow ourselves down.

We need to be more analytical of, so that when we do make a decision, it has higher, quicker impact.

And so sometimes this hustle and grind mentality drains us and it

burns us out and it uh doesn't satisfy.

But what I do know is this, when I come into and make good sense of back to my wine and I'm able before I launch just to make for sure, okay, this has been thought through.

I've talked to people around me that I consider mentors of mine.

or great people who've given me advice or other team members who have a different perspective on, now let's launch.

And what has happened is when I have taken the time to slow myself, quiet myself and not get in a hurry, my decisions generally are more impactful and meaningful.

So here's what I would say, know, if, listen, people like, Reggie, everybody got to work hard.

That's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying though is you, I would say quiet yourself.

Learn to go a little bit deeper before your launch and then your launch will be more intentional and your rise will be faster.

Okay, I think that's good advice.

I'm gonna have to marinate on that, but I think I can see that at work in my own life and I think that's good advice.

Yeah.

Well, I hope it helps for sure.

But that's been for me.

It's been game changing.

And he started like, I got a call from a guy the other day.

said, pull up your calendar, Reggie.

Pull up my, what are you talking about?

He said, I want to look at your calendar and he's a good, I mean, he's a friend of mine, but, and he goes, so, uh, you know, I want you to, uh, and I'm kind of pulling back the

covers here on me.

Um, less is more for me.

And so when I look at my calendar, if I can get one or two good things accomplished today, dude, I'm good.

And so, because what I use with that other time is how am I refreshing?

How am I studying?

How am I preparing for whatever's next?

And so my calendar probably is as least complicated as anybody you've ever met.

And that's by intention.

I do not allow, I do not allow the cares of life.

to drain me so that I'm ineffective with the people I love.

And so, or the people I serve, right?

And so I think one of the things that I would tell people is quit bragging about a busy calendar because something's getting missed because you're just so dead gun busy.

And you've been bought into this notion of busy means better.

And I don't believe it.

no, that drives me nuts in the construction world.

I'm sure you get it all the time.

Anytime, anytime two guys get together, it's, hey, how you doing?

So are you staying busy?

that is not a gauge on how well I'm doing either my business or me personally, like.

yeah.

So let me ask you this as a business owner.

Cause I ask us this all the time.

If you've got $10 million in revenue.

and it costs you $11 million to create that revenue.

What's the point?

The point is they'll put you up on a stage and go like this guy did $10 million.

He went from a million to $10 million and they don't realize that it costs him 11 to sit on that stage.

We got guys doing, I'm just using that scenario, 10, that have done $10 million of revenue.

They cost them 11 million to do the, the, uh, the jobs and they write books.

Mm-hmm.

So when I go into a company, here's what I want to know.

How much money are you keeping?

If you do a hundred thousand and keep 60,000, I'm just using as an example, or you do 10 million and lose money, which do you want?

And so these guys get in this panic of growing revenue in the, get that, but here's the revenue I want you to grow.

What you keep.

So how do you get efficient with the business and to do that, man, you've got to slow down sometimes and you've got to look at, like, for example, and I know we're getting into

business here, but at the end of the day, I want to know what are my costs associated with everything?

And am I being, have I, have I done a good job in terms of managing the cost of every job?

And if I lose money, it's not good.

I don't care if I build them for a million dollars.

If it costs me too many to do it, I'm of no gain.

That goes back to kind of the mentality of the age and that is bigger is better.

It's not.

No, we intentionally stayed small for a long time for that reason, because we saw statistically as companies grow through a certain growth point, they lose profit margin

and you're doing more work for less money.

And I didn't want to do that.

And it wasn't for probably five or six years in the business.

I realized that maybe the determining factor isn't about the actual size.

but it's about the leadership.

And so it might be possible to grow bigger and maintain that profit margin if you do it right and do it healthy.

Yeah.

And I got a good friend of mine whose son started a fence company.

not, not a fence company, a, shed.

build, they build these sheds and they're not just shed.

That sounds like, mean, like 70, $80,000 projects.

like concrete.

build these nice, you know, beautiful things.

And so dude, they, in August, they started and they've done close to $2 million in top line revenue and their kept is about $700,000.

It's incredible the success that they've had.

And so I get a call from him last week, the father and the son who are very dear friends of mine.

And they go like, Hey, Reggie, we're kind of thinking about expanding.

And I'm like, so what?

That's the first of all, tell me kind of the results so far.

And they told me we've done a million nine.

I kept money's about seven to $800,000.

I'm like, this gets 22 years old.

Like, come on.

Yeah.

And he's just done correct.

Great.

It's been residential.

had a little marketing plan that his father does very, very well and they're smashing it.

And so he goes to me.

said, yeah, we're thinking about getting into commercial space.

I'm like, why?

Well, there's just bigger jobs and they're smaller margins.

Now they're bigger and you do, you can make more money on them, but the net net net dollar is a lot different than what you're seeing in, in this, the projects that you're doing

right now.

said, first of all, you've got to better insurance than what you have right now.

That's going to cost you to get in bed world.

It's going to, if there's just so much and you know, I mean, you're shaking your head, you know, this is what you do every day.

Yeah.

And then the cash that you have to keep.

steady involved because the pay structures are different.

I said, let me ask you something.

How quick do y'all get paid?

He said, Oh, usually in two weeks.

I'm like,

Help me understand.

Why don't you just want to do more of that?

You have found a spot, stay in it, build it, grow it, develop it.

And all your kept money just continues to grow.

And that's what I think most young entrepreneurs do.

They come in and they try to diversify way too quick.

Find your sweet spot, learn it, then grow it.

And then why you need to think that we just got to do other things.

And the reason is they don't count the costs associated with it.

And so that's another thing I kind of help people realize is like, dude, come on.

You know, this is your spot.

What's that?

For 25 of the 40 years we've been in business, we installed one product.

And now I install three, but they're all very similar.

They're all kind of the same family.

Like we do what we know how to do.

We do it well.

We get deficient at it and you make money.

Go find more of doing the same thing instead of, I see a lot of companies they try to do.

Anything and every, any customer that calls is a good customer.

Like not if you're not making money on it.

So.

Right.

And so all of those little things matter.

And I think it again points back and I'll close with this thing that points back to is that we always think there's something more that's different than what we have.

And it distracts us and it dilutes us and it causes us to bring pain into our organizations.

That is not needed.

You have found your spot.

You're doing well with it.

Now it doesn't mean maybe you can, you know,

A commercial project comes along and somebody says, hey, can you do this?

Okay, yeah.

And that might not even work out, but just know where you are, how you got here and do more of that.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I know we've got to get wrapping up here, but if our listeners want to connect with you, like I said, I'll put it all in the show notes, but real quick, just to get it on the

air, what's going to be the best way to reach out to you and connect to you?

I'm going through a bunch of website changes now, so I don't even recommend that.

Just go to Reggie.

I mean, I'm on social media everywhere.

It's hard for not to find me.

So Reggie Brock, you know, I've got, you know, I've got, you can find me on Facebook and LinkedIn and I do all that stuff.

And that's usually the easiest way to keep up with me.

But my email is reggiebrock at reggiebrock.com.

so reggie, R-E-G-G-I-E at reggiebrock.com.

And so that's the easiest way to get a hold of me.

Great.

And if you get me all your links and social media handles, we'll put that in the show notes, make it real easy.

They can just click the link in the show notes and be good to go.

So our last question we ask every guest um to either settle or fuel the debate.

Right now we're kind of, we got it down to two, I think that are the most popular.

If you have a job to do with the cordless tool, which brand do you prefer?

I don't use hand, I mean, you need to ask my wife that.

I literally, this is honestly God's truth.

My wife's so frustrated with my lack of skill in that area.

So one day I thought I'm going to show her and I bought her a tool belt for Christmas.

And I mean, she literally, I bought her some hand tools and like, cause she did it kind of as project stuff.

So I hate that.

I don't know.

Like I don't, I don't have a, I don't.

Yeah.

Sorry.

I just don't do it.

That's what I was going to say.

Let me call her real.

So what's your favorite and they'll go.

Awesome.

Well, Reggie, thank you so much for joining us.

I have gained a lot speaking with you.

hope our listeners did as well.

And you've definitely got me thinking.

I think we're going to have to explore Axis 8 and for sure I'm going to finish this assessment and get the rest of my team doing it.

ah We'll reach back out to you and get in touch with that.

So I highly recommend you guys get in touch with Reggie.

ah As you can see, he's a blast to talk to.

He has a lot of experience.

And I think he could be a great help for anybody that wants to spend some time with him.

So thank you guys so much for joining us here on From the Ground Up Show.

Again, if you want to support the show, five star reviews, subscribe, follow, like, make sure you turn on those auto downloads.

The downloads help us a lot.

If you want to be on the show as a guest or if you have a question that you want to ask of one of our expert guests, please send that in.

You can reach us on our website.

fromthegroundupshow.com.

uh We're on all the social media platforms at fromthegroundupshow.

So again, thank you for joining us and until next time, keep grinding.