Richie Zook – Building a Trades Business That Can Run Without You

And we met with the attorney, he was just like,

you know, if if you can't get along as as fifty fifty partners,

you're not gonna get along as fifty-two forty-eight partners.

And we just marketed it hard. Like would there be work for it?

And and you know, there there might be.

we're we're near enough some some good metropolitan areas that that have that

demand. but seriously, like if if a a one point two million dollar piece

of equipment's gonna generate fifty thousand dollars a year,

it's you're buying it for your pride.

You're you're really not buying it to to make money.

And so we really do we've had to stay grounded in that.

Welcome to From the Ground Up Show.

Honest conversations with people who have built their lives,

careers, and businesses with heart,

hands, and hustle. Your host, Erick Loden,

acquired and scaled his family's roofing company,

growing annual revenue more than eightfold and operating profit about

15 fold before choosing an internal sale and retiring from the business at 37.

Join Erick and his guests for the hard-earned lessons behind real success.

today's going to be a fun one that I've been looking forward to for

a few months now. Today's guest is Richie Zook,

an owner of Keystone Guncrete.

A Pennsylvania company that has been serving the concrete industry since 1980.

What began with one pump and one operator has grown into

a diversified operation providing concrete pumping,

shock crete, concrete lifting,

equipment sales, service, and supplies.

Richie's role reaches well beyond the field.

He has worked across pumping, lifting,

and shock crete, and now helps the company through finance,

What?

marketing,

team management, and equipment sales.

But what makes his story especially interesting is the way that he leads.

Richie shares ownership with business partners,

a structure that can provide complementary strengths and shared accountability,

but also requires trust, clarity,

and the ability to work through disagreement.

He also runs his hands-on Pennsylvania operation remotely while living in Idaho,

forcing the company to develop leaders and systems that do not depend upon

the owner being physically present.

Today we'll talk about his path into the business,

partnership, remote leadership,

and what it takes to build a company that can operate without you.

Richie, welcome to From the Ground Up Show.

Thank you, sir. Good to be here.

I am excited. ~ like I said, I've been looking forward to this conversation

for a while now. And ~ yeah, I'm excited to dive right in.

So we'd like to start every show going clear back to the beginning.

before we get into Keystone Guncrete,

can you tell us a little bit about your childhood?

where did you grow up and what was childhood like?

Yeah, so I grew up ~ actually was born in Red Lake,

Ontario. My parents were missionaries up there and so I lived there until

the age of six and then at that point we moved back to the state of Oregon,

where my parents had come from.

I spent most of my childhood then there in Oregon growing up we had five

I had five siblings and just a pile of cousins,

so we were

Playing around the farm, d we were playing in the creek,

shooting guns, going to church,

pretty much living a child's dream there in Oregon.

man. And ~ growing up in a a large family there in Oregon in the country,

~ what did your family teach you about work,

money and responsibility that you've carried with you into your professional career?

Yeah, so my my mom and dad I would say are we're were and still are,

just hardworking folks. coming out of mission work and then actually once

we got to Oregon, my dad was a private school teacher at the little Christian school

that that I would have attended.

We didn't have much money. now I I never really knew that as a as a kid,

and and didn't really see through all that till I was older,

just because my my parents didn't complain.

They they didn't belly ache about the

the shortage of funds, but we did we pinched pennies.

we raised a lot of our own food there on the farm.

We had a huge garden. We sheared sheep.

We you know cleaned out our our barns,

all the manure by hand. we mowed our own grass,

split our own wood. So you know as I look back,

we did a lot of self-sufficiency stuff.

~ just just as I see it now more survival.

It wasn't a a hobby.

But it did allow ~ you know, it did make me appreciate money and hard work growing

up. the other thing I saw growing up that was that was interesting was just

~ I learned to appreciate generosity.

there were just many people as as a child not even realizing ~ our need,

but knowing that there were just some generous people that were had paid

for our vehicle to get fixed or we're d were dropping off food and and

so we always had enough and yeah,

definitely I I would attribute

my my work ethic to, you know,

what what my parents went through and then kinda how they raised us.

what did you expect to do when you grew up when you were a kid?

Did did you think you would be an entrepreneur?

Did you expect to go into business?

What what was the dream?

So I I would not say that I I like dreamt being a business owner.

we we did play a lot as kids and ~ had a cousin that that was

in the electrical business and so we would we would pretend we were

the electrical company and and set up an office and hang string up in our barn

to be electricians. we were, you know,

we had fun, but I I never really was like dreaming of being being a boss

or or being an owner. the one thing I was always trying to figure out.

was how to be efficient. And so my dad had always just he just was

a super hard worker. but ~ I remember one day they they said,

hey, you know, we need you to move and I don't remember if it was a pile

of wood or manure, but they had it was a couple wheel wheelbarrows worth

of stuff that I needed to move.

And and I literally like spent half my morning building a trailer to pull behind

the lawnmower to make the job easier for myself and and

You know, w while I I'm sure there was some rebellion mixed in with it,

I do look back and I just see,

you know, God's hand i kind of inspiring me just to figure out ways to

to be smarter and not necessarily just to work harder.

that's a good skill to have and ~ something good to have learned.

tell us a little bit about education.

Do you do you have a post high school education?

Was that a value to you?

It was not. ~ I I enjoyed school.

I probably enjoyed the social aspect of it.

~ but I just the only colleges that I was ever around ~ after high school

was just kind of hanging out with friends.

I just I I didn't see value in it myself.

I just saw f friends and relatives going into debt and I was like,

man, I'm just gonna go work hard.

Okay. Has that view changed at all now that ~ you've been in the workforce

for a while or has it been solidified?

So I mean I would say that there's definitely been times where I could see value.

You know, there was there's probably some things I wouldn't have tripped over

if I had more post high school graduation,

you know, specifically surrounding business business management.

but I you know, there's so many there's so many experts out there that

you can hire to fill in those voids.

that I

I don't know. I if if my children have a a dream to go to a specific field that

requires schooling, I'm gonna encourage in that.

but otherwise, man, like if if you don't have a specific need to go to college,

go work hard and and see where it takes you.

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~ so before you got into concrete,

did you have any other jobs between graduating high school and running your

own business? What what did you do for work and what did that teach you?

right out of high school, I actually had moved to Pennsylvania,

so I'd relocated to Pennsylvania and ~ my sister lived there and ~ so I just seen

an ad in the paper for flooring installers needed and so I I applied

and and was hired as a flooring installer,

did that. ~ so I actually spent fifteen years ~ in in the flooring industry.

coincidentally

six years into that ended up marrying the owner's daughter,

who's Chastin, my wife. so so there was there was multiple blessings through that

career.

man, so not not wasted time there,

huh?

No, no, definitely not. and and the things I learned along the way there

~ were just were were pretty incredible.

You know, I'd started as I mentioned as an installer,

then I was estimating and then I s got into commercial sales and and much

of that promotion that I got was before I was ever even a a thing with

the the boss's daughter. But ~ just really enjoyed advancing.

I I really connected well with my employer and had just

it was my goal to to please him and and ~ to do everything in my power just

to to advance and grow with the company and so yeah I I start what started

out as as working on my knees every day.

you know, till I had left there 15 years later,

you know, I was overseeing all the the residential commercial sales,

~ four loc four locations of stores,

and and selling a couple million dollars worth of flooring,

you know, every year.

along the way. So yeah, definitely a lot to be learned there.

good stuff. well tell us how you got from installing flooring and and helping

to run a flooring business to the shot creet business and specifically Keystone.

What did that path look like and how how did you wind up there?

So I I would say you know, my my in-laws were just tremendous business folks.

They've taught me so much about business and customer service

and managing accounts receivable and marketing and HR.

they they did just they they're just top-notch business owners.

You know, w one thing we didn't have was anyone,

any counsel from the outside kind of growing us through that.

helping us growth ~ through that time of just exponential growth.

And so the future planning and and vision,

you know, was just I think we lost sight of some of that along the way.

We we marketed really well and kept opening locations.

But then you're just constantly responding to to fires and you know

the fires would be erupting as turnover of employees was super high just from people

burning out.

~ so as time went on, and obviously I was I was married to the boss's daughter,

I was watching just numerous in our area there in Pennsylvania,

numerous family businesses just kind of implode and watching families fall apart,

not communicating with each other,

not showing up at family gatherings.

This isn't our family, I'm I'm saying other families in the area.

And I saw that as a real concern.

you know, just being a part of that specific family business.

I

As a high level manager at that point,

I just started to realize that the j some of our leadership styles,

some of our priorities were different.

and I just realized that that stress was literally destroying my body

and and my mind and and I recognized it was a t it was time for a change

at that point in time.

So ~ you're working for your in-laws,

have moved up a lot in that business,

helped them build it, develop it,

but you decide you need a change.

How do you wind up in concrete?

Yeah. So I I would go to a weekly breakfast with somebody that mostly we're

all connected through church and just kind of sharpen each other and and

br it was something we look forward to every week,

Thursday mornings. So ~ I one of those guys there was Marlon Stallspose and

~ he was the operations manager at Keystone Gun Creek.

~ their their current owner was wanting to sell the business and

~ Marlon had interest

And and he had so much experience specifically on the operations side.

he'd he'd been running the the operations for a number of years,

had been there twenty-four years at that point in time.

but he did not have experience kind of on the business side,

on the marketing, accounting side of it.

and and so yeah, we talked about it,

kinda heard about the opportunity and then it it just kind of started out

as like a hey, what if I come join you and we did this together?

~ and it was kind of a joke.

a and then it it you know, it went from there to reality ~ over a year's time.

so you're taking advantage of this opportunity,

~ partnering with somebody to take over an existing business.

Did you work there at all before you bought the company or did you buy it

and s dive right in?

Yeah, so I did I went over to work for the prior owner actually three months before

the the transaction date. and that was pretty intentional.

one I had kind of wound down my my time at the at the flooring company.

And then also I wanted to learn operations as best as I could before kind

of taking over the wheel. and also the

Probably the biggest reason was just I wanted to be able to interact with,

ride along with, and get to know the current employees.

there were there were seven of us,

so it wasn't a big company by any means.

but I wanted to to try to earn their respect and really just ensure that that they

were on board and and that they knew this guy that was coming in to to join

the team was wasn't just gonna be a jerk to

Yeah. Okay. So how steep was the learning curve as you dove into that business

coming from flooring into concrete?

Was there a lot that you had to learn on the the technical side,

the business side? What how d how well did you feel prepared?

I mean it was it was definitely a very different i it was very different

in in many ways. I I tell people like in flooring,

you'd have, you know, Mrs. Jones go in her shower and she's like,

that beige is not the right color of beige.

I envision that grout being right and we would have just countless conversations

over that. And then concrete pumping,

we're like, Hey, when we're done pumping concrete,

we're gonna need to dump our hopper.

So you're gonna have a couple wheelbarrows worth of wet,

sloppy concrete. Where would you like that?

It's ~ often time it goes in someone's yard,

right, until it until it's able to be cleaned up.

But just a it is different, but the same bones.

Like it it's it's service, it's taking care of customers and getting paid

for a a job well done. most importantly though,

the learning curve was easy because I had I had a twenty-four year veteran

of the industry that I was running stuff by.

Not so much on the the financial end or insurance end or those parts of it,

but but really operationally nothing changed.

so on more the the financial side or the transaction side,

how did you guys structure that buyout?

Did you do it all at once? Did you do it in phases?

how did you finance it? what what did the the bones of that buyout look like?

Yes, so d you know, that is an area I would just say was such a huge blessing.

So ~ w my business partner Marlin and I,

we we came with very little down.

~ he didn't require us to have a huge amount of cash coming in.

And then he did he did finance the the transaction from at the beginning.

and there was some there you know,

there was it was definitely more comfortable than going through

the the banking process.

you know, at that point just because of the you know the amount

of intangible assets that were involved and and that that definitely makes

it tricky w working on the banking side versus you know ~ existing owner financing.

so we did we did work through that.

we both we had set up an LLC ~ as me and Marlin

and Keystone Guncrete LLC and then we bought out the assets

of Keystone Guncrete company.

~ tangible and in and intangible so we were not just taking over

the existing entity.

why did you decide to do that?

And ~ do you think that was the right decision?

decide to have him finance or

do it as

an ~ do it as an asset sale rather than a stock sale.

~ yeah, absolutely. ~ just from a from a risk standpoint,

I think pretty much any any f legal legal advisor is gonna recommend doing

an asset sale wherever it's is possible.

Also just from a financial standpoint,

the depreciation piece of that ~ is something that has just been beautiful.

You know, just to help obviously there was debt to pay for,

so

offsetting that those principal payments i in in having that depreciation

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Yeah, that makes a lot of sense,

especially in an asset heavy business like that where a probably a big part

of that sale was very expensive equipment.

yeah, in a in a business where maybe there's more licensure or ~ you know,

contractual agreements with the entity itself and and light equipment,

it probably makes more sense for a stock sale,

but with so much with so much of that sale and equipment that depreciation

was probably a a big

Bonus, huh?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yep, that was very,

very helpful.

All right. And so tell us a little bit about those first few years.

were was there a dip in revenue,

a dip in sales as you guys took over?

Were you able to to grow it right away,

maintain? ~ what what did the first few years look like taking over?

Yeah,

so we would have taken over on January first of of ~ twenty seventeen.

and you were in business then as well.

So you remember the the business climate,

the political change and the stuff.

We all had a lot of confidence in kind of what was happening there

at the beginning of twenty seventeen.

so I I think just you know, the economy overall being super strong,

business I I think

At least entrepreneurs in our area were had a lot of confidence just

in in the economy and what it was gonna be doing.

And so we hit the ground running.

actually hired two guys within a matter of a couple months after after taking over.

one of the you know, one of the things the the prior owner had had been much more

disengaged the last number of years from the business and

And so, you know, I I think we could all agree in the in the trades,

in the service industry, personnel is is probably our greatest challenge

and and having great people. And so with him being more disengaged,

having ~ you know, he had he had not continued to grow his operators.

However, he would continue to buy equipment,

appreciating the depreciation.

And and so we saw that actually as a huge opportunity.

You know, because we s we hit the ground running going,

Hey, we could actually add to this team without you know,

the the capital cost of going out and adding equipment and can really make this

thing grow from from day one. So yeah,

and ~ I I don't wanna sit here today and pretend like I'm the smartest guy.

Really I'm not. The Lord's blessing on the process was like tremendous.

And and you know, even just from a cash flow standpoint,

that transition happening. I mean,

we had it set up where, you know

cash flow would would transition right over,

but we were buying in the middle of winter.

We were blessed with a mild winter.

I mean just so many things that that just really fell into place I think because

of the Lord's blessing that that really helped kick us off well.

You you said that when you first started discussing this transaction it

was it was kind of a you know,

a a joke or something you guys laughed about,

talked about that turned into a reality.

At what point in time did you decide that th this was something you were gonna

go all in on and what what pushed you over the edge?

What what was the thing that you made you say,

~ man, I'm gonna do this?

So we I mean we did do a lot of it went from that initial conversation with Marlin

and I to conversation with the prior owner,

digging into financials. But there again,

I I had a lot of experience, but I wasn't the CFO or anything.

That wasn't my wheelhouse. So pulled a pulled an accountant on board,

~ pulled an attorney on board,

had just kind of starting to to work with us to

to evaluate almost kind of more than anything,

like what is this a real opportunity?

Should we be pursuing it? so really,

you know, it it was the we we literally signed papers in December after

I'd already been working there.

So I knew I was I knew I was going to be making a change.

I I just confident that that the Lord had this under control.

I had I left my prior job the beginning of September.

And ~ but at that point we were still doing a lot of

A lot of homework, there was a lot of meetings,

there was a lot of negotiations going on.

and so yeah, I it basically I had confidence that as long as the train didn't come

off the tracks, like we were gonna we were gonna be buying this thing January one.

but also had an open mind that like I I don't wanna do the wrong thing here either.

and and just yeah, end up in a bad situation.

what was your biggest fear in that process?

I mean, you you kind of walked away from a a good situation,

a good job helping manage the flooring company,

maybe ~ you know, to pursue other things regardless,

but going from that to, you know,

working in another business that you've never done before,

hoping that this sale is gonna come through and it's gonna work out,

what what was the biggest fear or maybe the the biggest potential hang up?

So I would I would say that, you know,

my my experience that ten years before of of management really

had just been high turnover and and the loss of employees,

the loss of managers. and so ~ I think that was my greatest fear.

Like I I'm literally gonna buy into this company and everybody's gonna walk away.

And and so definitely that that was that was a

high on the the fear list for for my business partner and me,

but I think especially me just because of of the journey I've been on.

So for somebody that's not involved in the industry or maybe not in

the trades to understand a little bit better,

~ what is it exactly that you guys do?

'Cause you you don't do concrete finishing,

you don't even supply the concrete.

you you basically move the concrete in a couple of different formats and ways.

Can you tell us a little bit about concrete pumping,

shock creet, the different services that you offer?

Yeah, it's actually something that everybody has more than likely seen

a concrete pump driving around.

but unless you know what it is,

you probably have no idea that you've seen a concrete pump.

So we have both boom pumps, which is essentially a big you know class B truck with

a crane ~ you know, with a boom and pipe system attached to it that reaches

out and and so it's it's taking the concrete from its hopper with a ready mix truck.

dumps it in and it's delivering it into the wall forms or into the pour,

you know, woo flat work, whatever it is that we're doing.

so that would be a boom pump and and so we're just the we're conveying.

a trailer pump, very similar, but it doesn't have a boom.

So we we literally go out, we set up pipe and hose or just roll out hose.

so yeah

Very common thing, like we do these multiple every day,

is someone's putting a new patio in behind their house and they've got a fence up,

right? Well you're not pulling a concrete truck around,

but there's a nice three-foot gate,

and so we're just running the hose back around the house.

and we pump the concrete from out at the street back to the patio.

We pump that seven or ten or twenty yards into the patio.

and then you know the concrete truck goes on its way and and we clean

out our hopper, clean out our system,

and and we're done. So

That's a big part of what we're doing is concrete pumping.

That's kind of our bread and butter.

We also do concrete raising where we lift sunken concrete that's that's dropped,

settled, we'll raise it back up into place using foam injection and

and just saves the cost and the mess of replacement.

And then the third kind of piece of the service that we do is shock creep.

And there again, people probably like what shock creek?

Well, if you have a concrete swimming pool,

you've experienced shock creek because that's sprayed concrete.

So basically the concrete trailer pump is pumping it out to the end of the hose,

air is added at that point at the nozzle,

and then that it's spraying concrete.

and so we we spray we'll we'll spray swimming pools,

it'll be foundations, dirt banks,

you know, just various applications underpinning,

you know, an old foundation.

Just different uses for it, but something we use a lot in both the agricultural,

~ commercial and and old residential buildings take a lot of that

in Lancaster County.

I understand the original company was founded in the eighties.

how much do you know about the origin story of the company and how it got started?

So I I don't know a ton just about like what inspired,

you know, Malin Stallsfuß was the original,

not to be confused with Marlin Stalzfoos,

my business partner, but if you've ever been to Lancaster County,

Stalsfuß is just a very, very popular name.

So Marlin is my business partner and Malin started the company.

I think it was pretty slow. So in nineteen eighty,

concrete pumps were not a real big thing at that point yet.

so they had gotten into it with just trailer pump and ~ and then they they

had gotten into shock creating silos.

That was really a a big part of the original part of what they did.

It was the old concrete silos that the the silage deteriorates the inside of it.

So they would go in and shock create the interior.

Then they would they would get pressure washed and then and then just

sh shoot the inside of them and that preserves them for another number of years.

So that's kind of how the company started.

but as far as like some of those early years,

I know there's there was like a couple guys and there was one guy and so

it I think it was pretty tough.

In those early years just getting started.

W was there a comfort level or a weight that came with buying

an established company that that had a reputation,

had a history rather than starting something new?

~ did did that change the way that you felt coming in as an owner?

Yeah, I I think when you can look at I there's definitely two lines

of thought here because when I I could look at financials of the last however many

years, right, to see kind of what to expect and even what to expect,

like I could review two thousand eight,

right? And some of the the difficult years,

nine, ten, eleven, twelve, you know,

some of those painful years, and see what survival looked like.

And so,

that also, you know, you had asked about what kind of ultimately brought

us to that decision. Well, when we could go back and look at some of

the like the downturn and how painful was it for an existing company that's

in construction, that gave us a level of comfort that,

okay, as long as we could make this,

right, like we will be fine.

Yeah.

whereas, you know, I I had buddies who were just like,

Man, I can't imagine going in debt and buying a company and and they're like,

I'd just much rather buy my bag of tools and the and and the van

and and start going. And

And I like that's another great way to go to do it too.

you just don't have that track record to be able to look back on to give

you some of that that that peace.

Okay. And I understand you have diversified significantly from when

you took over the company. You've added some more services and and

are kind of branching out a little bit.

what initiated that? Did did you diversify intentionally?

Did you just take c advantage of opportunities that you saw?

How did that come about?

Yeah, so we have continued to like so our main three services did exist when

we took over ten years ago. we have definitely added to that.

So as an example, just ~ just in the last couple months here,

we have we've been doing concrete lifting.

Well, when you go out and do lifting,

oftentimes there's caulking that was done there that that is disturbed while you're

lifting. And we've always said,

hey, call the caulking guy, right?

He call a handyman, he'll come and fix it.

Well, so just providing great service.

creating, you know, growing the company,

we've just been like, hey, we're missing an opportunity.

So let's let's do our own caulking.

So that's something that that's literally just like hot off the shelf.

There's there's a new service that we're doing.

and it's gone well. So it's it's ~ I I'm excited

Yeah.

about it. But there were things along the way like like line dragons

was something that we did not buy with the initial business that that's been added

in and you know now we have a couple sets of them.

And and that's something that really,

you know, even the shift in the last ten years that you've seen in the workforce,

Lancaster County traditionally has a very hard working culture.

But we even would see that in in some of the conservative horsebuggy,

you know, people there that that some of the younger generation just

not having the drive and desire to go out and and pick up a wheelbarrow

and and wheel concrete. And or even,

you know, like the line dragons,

essentially what they do it's two

Robots that four-wheel steer robots.

The one in the front has a boom that places the concrete where you want it.

The one in the back's literally just a dragger or the donkey that just drags

the hose around. So those two pieces of equipment work in tandem,

and that really eliminates three men on site just dragging hose around,

which is reducing risk. it's also saving that I mean that concrete company,

so concrete companies will use their pump company and line dragons.

To essentially generate another crew to go do another job the same day.

because we've cut down the men that they need on site to get that port accomplished.

so some of what we've done has just been expanding what was already there,

concrete lifting being being a huge part of that.

The you know, when we took over,

~ we were looking at forty thousand in in total sales the year before we took over,

and and that now it's you know it's just grown tremendously.

you know, three guys in it full time and two others that that are in

it about half the time helping out in that division.

So it's it's just it's just been kind of building upon too,

what was there and then diversifying within those sectors.

You talked quite a bit there

Yeah.

about growth and it seems like your company has grown significantly over

the last ten years. Can you give us an idea of what that looked like?

Where where did you start out and where have you come and what did it take

to to build that growth?

Yeah, so we had and there were seven employees when we took over and and

we now have there's twenty of us.

So we're we're not we're not a Fortune five hundred company by any means.

But ~ yeah, just continue like I had mentioned we hired a couple guys just

in a couple months, you know, the into the second year we added another boom pump,

we added dragons along the way,

we continued to to add concrete lifting trailers and

And so it's just been it's been exciting to to look out,

kind of look what do we see as opportunities in the coming year.

That's where we're gonna invest,

you know, putting re allocating resources to that.

and then it kind of as a manpower goes,

like we've we've basically as as we see that us as owners we're we're busier

in the field, it was like we need more help,

right? And so that's kind of always been a a good sense of

if it's time to hire another guy.

yeah, that's kind of what growth so I I will tell you one of the one

of the mistakes that I made earlier in my in my careers was that I found that

we would set financial goals and then you you you did whatever you had

to do to reach that financial goals.

And so often it came at the expense of company culture.

So often you got subpar help because you were so intent on hitting this certain

goal. And so for us, when when Marlon and I took over,

we we had penciled in like some goals,

which we've we've definitely exceeded in the last 10 years,

kind of you know, five-year goal,

10-year goal. And and we've exceeded that.

But really, we we were both in agreement that let's find really good people.

and and then as we would find good people,

We found that it was like God just blessed us with work for that guy.

And so then, you know, but then there'd be times it was like,

man, I I wouldn't hire someone right now.

And about the time, you know, someone walks in or we get a referral,

because we hire a lot through referrals,

just our existing employees. And it's like,

hey, I got this buddy and he wants a job and he would just be incredible.

And we'd interview him and it's like,

you know what, we actually have the work to to hire this guy,

or we think we will if we hire him.

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the Lord has blessed us and and really it's just helped preserve that culture that

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This is a a very equipment heavy business.

when you're considering new purchases of equipment and looking at

an investment that way, how do you analyze that?

You mentioned a little bit you you look a lot at the market and see if

you think the demand is gonna be there,

but ~ do you ever find yourself having to kinda check yourself and decide

i is this a piece of equipment that's really in demand or is it the

new shiny thing that would be fun to see in the shop?

Yeah. So d about a month ago we mu Marlon,

my business partner and I were up in British Columbia.

We were just seeing actually a new forty meter that we have in production.

And while we're up there, there's like the fifty meter,

the fifty-seven meter, the sixty-five meter there's like a brand

new sixty-five meter all spread out across the the parking lot,

right? We're talking about like one point two million dollars,

right, in in this this truck.

And you we don't have anything near that size.

We have a 47 meter is our larger largest pump,

which is really because of demand,

right? We we our largest was a 40 meter,

then in in 2020 we actually had seen a a need,

a demand, and and had added a 47.

but you really do have to evaluate like what is the return on investment.

~ the we were up there in British Columbia,

I'm just like, man, what if we added like a 57 meter?

And we just marketed it hard. Like would there be work for it?

And and you know, there there might be.

we're we're near enough some some good metropolitan areas that that have that

demand. but seriously, like if if a a one point two million dollar piece

of equipment's gonna generate fifty thousand dollars a year,

it's you're buying it for your pride.

You're you're really not buying it to to make money.

And so we really do we've had to stay grounded in that.

You you can get the itch, like,

man, I want more big equipment.

But as we're in British Columbia and we're looking at these bigger machines going,

should we do this? you know, how do I know?

You asked, how do we know? It's I'm I'm on the phone with a scheduler.

How often are you turning down work for the 47 meter?

Because you already have it booked,

right? So so my pulse on how we are growing is is if I'm telling my customer

no or I'm telling a potential customer no,

but then I don't have service for them,

then it's time to continue to add to that,

you know, to that size.

piece of equipment. but yeah, it as much as I'd love to go buy the biggest pump

in Pennsylvania, like it's probably not gonna be in our fleet.

how do you track utilization of the equipment that you already have

to make sure that you're getting that ROI?

Do you ever assess current equipment,

whether it's worth keeping or would be worth selling and

and whether you're utilizing it enough?

Yeah, there there are metrics out there that can use to to track your equipment

usage and operator productivity.

One thing that's big in our industry is,

you know, billable hours versus man hours.

so you know, because of how we incentivize our guys,

they're they're really incentivized per project that they get on and

and so they want to do more. They they really don't want to be in the shop.

They don't really want to be paid just to sit around,

they they want to be out pumping concrete.

And because of that, we are super productive on the operator side.

Like I'm sure we would be off the charts of whatever the average would be.

on the equipment side, we don't,

you know, we're tracking the hours the equipment's being used.

you know, our best metric really though is is looking at our schedule.

It it's not a it's not a fancy report.

~ but i if your equipment's not being used or I can look I can look in the shop and

See what's parked there and if you got trucks parked in the shop it's it's you're

not making money.

you mentioned that your guys are incentivized to maximize billable hours versus just

hours on the clock. What does that incentive look like?

How do you build a compensation system that really incentivizes your guys

to generate revenue rather than just putting in hours?

Great question. So I'll go back a little bit in the history.

one of the one of the I think was an error how it was set up,

but it it actually played into how the company got set up and and

for us moving forward. But before we took over,

the company was run as a general partnership.

All seven were were partners in the business.

~ they really didn't own anything.

they just on paper they were a partner and and it's kind of a

a Lancaster County thing. ~ a lot of Amish Mennonite companies get set up that way.

you don't you know, a lot of them are social security exempt.

So that piece of it's already they wouldn't be paying.

but you got work comp that that they're not paying.

and and even in, you regardless of the trade,

it it makes it competitive to for you as,

you know.

w whatever your industry is to go out and compete against them because they don't

have those fixed business costs that we have in payroll tax and in in work comp.

So they did that, but then they always just kinda paid so much

per job essentially for their guys.

So the guys were kind of used to that like the more I do,

the more I get, but they there was no report that they got bi weekly or anything.

They just got a a chunk, you know,

the the owner before would just kind of be like,

Yeah, you were this busy, I'm just gonna send you this much.

And

They really had no idea what was gonna come in on Friday.

So when we took over, we said,

Well we we're gonna improve upon that,

and you are gonna get paid, you know,

g we we're gonna go from what you're paid per job,

but you are gonna be an hourly employee because we're gonna be a legal company

and you're gonna have work comp.

So you're gonna be covered if you are injured on the job,

and we're not gonna be, you know,

misclassifying you as as partners.

So

we did make that change, but we did maintain the incentive kind of program.

So their hourly employees on their on their every two weeks they get their

pay stub and it'll show their hours,

it'll show their overtime, it'll show any prevailing wage jobs that they're on.

but then there's also just this this extra incentive that they got and it's it's

I literally am building spreadsheets for each of these guys.

it's a big part of my role and what I do.

But it it is really what drives them is,

you know, they they are they're never paid less than their hourly rate.

You know, if a job just takes forever and goes sideways,

like it, they're never gonna get paid less than than what we've committed

to paying them. But if I offered them to pay them their hourly rate

and not give them the incentive moving forward,

like they'd all quit. So none of them want an hourly job mentality.

They're all like, give it to me and and I want the jobs.

Okay. Interesting. And so what what does that

Mm-hmm.

spread chip spreadsheet look like?

How do you compute what that bonus looks like or what that additional amount looks

like to make sure that like you said,

when a job goes sideways, you pay their base rate.

So that means you know, it's coming out of your pocket,

but then you're sharing the upside for the good jobs.

How do you calculate that to keep it fair,

keep it in line so the business is profitable and yet provide good incentive

to your guys?

Well on the on the pumping side,

billable hours are billable hours.

So even even when they're there and the job drags out,

especially if it's a Friday night,

like they're they're gonna get an extra chunk of money just

put in their spreadsheet. So you just you know,

in my Excel spreadsheet, I'm I'm listing every job that they're on and

it pays a certain rate and the you know,

is it local, is it non local, how many yards did they pump,

did they collect a

A COD correctly. did they use a washout bag,

right? It's just an annoying thing that we have to use in concrete pumping,

so I give them extra if they sell because it's adding,

right? They're selling, they're selling a bag,

so I'll give them extra to sell it.

~ and then if they were there more than five hours,

then they get additional money.

So they literally see every job and and how it computes.

and then there's jobs where, you know.

maybe something's out of the ordinary or there was extra clearances or they they

had to be there at one in the morning and so then they're gonna just they they might

get a special project bonus. It could be a couple hundred bucks,

but they see that reward in their paycheck.

And then so that all just adds up in the column and then it gets down to the bottom.

But because we're a legal company and they work that many hours,

I you know, I'm figuring here's your hours,

here's your overtime and and everything that was left was incentive.

So

It could be 500 bucks or it could be several thousand dollars that they'd

get in in a couple week period,

depending on what their, you know,

you know what their incentive was and and what we do tie a lot

of that incentive into as well is like how well do you take care your truck?

What's your equipment look like?

How much am I spending on your equipment?

And so it it also they're they're incentivized to also take good care

of their stuff.

You mentioned that a l a lot of the companies in your area are still kind

of set up as a general partnership and running a little bit looser.

You guys are running a completely legal payroll,

you pay your social security, you pay workers comp,

and then you're incentivizing your guys well for the jobs.

How do you go about pricing the work that you do and maintain competitive with

the companies that maybe are taking some of those shortcuts?

Yeah,

so I think within the pumping industry,

~ there may be one small guy in our area that that still is set up with that

the archaic way of setting it up.

But I think everybody else in our area is set up,

either as an LLC or as a corporation and and has work comp for their guys.

So that's you know, that's not necessarily something I have to fight.

Now the flat work guys, the the guys pouring and finishing the concrete,

they definitely have more of that in their in their space.

So as far as how we do pricing,

you know, we we definitely we hear from customers,

we we we do our surveillance to make sure we're in the mix.

our goal is is to be in the middle.

I don't want to be the cheapest guy and I don't always wanna be

the most expensive guy. Sometimes I am.

but my you know, my commitment to our guys is I wanna pay you better.

I d I don't even want you to have to have the desire to go look for another job.

Like I want you

I want to pay better than any of my competitors,

but I want to compete with my competitors.

and it does make it tricky. And there's there's times where I mean,

beyond you know, payroll's my biggest expense.

You know, I'm not I'm not selling on the concrete lifting side,

we're we're selling foam. and we do sell parts and but but my by far

my bus biggest business expense is my labor.

And so we we try our best to communicate to our guys that you know.

We're we're doing our best to take good care of but it does it does make

it tricky and there's you know,

there's definitely players in the market that are bottom feeders that

I'm I'm just not gonna match their price.

but that's not necessarily the goal either.

Yeah, yeah.

~ in the roofing industry in my background,

you know, a lot of our jobs were low bid and similarly we tried to make sure that

we were paying our guys you know,

on the upper end of the pay scale compared to our competitors.

So that was a big thing we looked at was i everything has to be maximum efficiency.

I if we're gonna get jobs by being cheaper than everybody else,

but we're gonna pay you guys more than everybody else,

that means we gotta get more done.

~ is that

Right. Yep.

kinda where you're sitting and is that a big part of your

incentive program is just trying to maximize that efficiency to

to manage that balance there.

Yeah. So we we definitely we put a lot of energy into that incentive program

and and you know it's a big reason why guys come to work there.

It does drive efficiency and that's that's where I was going with like

you can run reports on usability and and what is how many man hours

how many billable man hours does your operator have in a week?

versus how many billable hours does my operator have in a week and

I guarantee you my guys are just they're they're more billable hours.

So we're a little different ~ line of work there just because you know

I I'm I'm billing per per hour that I'm on site more than I'm I'm billing per job.

But at the end of the day I still have competitors and we have to we have

to remain somewhat competitive to them.

It's also just the culture.

If I can if we can have a culture there that's that's phenomenal,

you know, although that doesn't immediately feed the bottom line,

what is the cost of replacing employees?

And if I can have guys that are that are doing well,

like I would rather pay guys really well than to be constantly having

to replace them and and replace them maybe with two guys,

right?

Yeah, absolutely. So w what what percentage of your business

is won through competitive pricing versus ~ reputation or relationship?

Yeah, so our model looks a little bit different on that end.

I mean, we do on the shot creep side and on the concrete lifting side,

we definitely have some some bid projects that we bid and and it may be low bid.

~ I like winning the jobs when it's not low bid and and you're not the low bid.

those are those are always the best and makes you love your salesman.

but i we definitely do have those those competitive bid situations.

on the pumping side, you know,

we we've

talked about this. So when we c when we started out,

we had just fixed pricing across the board.

no matter how good of a customer you were,

you paid your well, your your paid your bills within terms,

you got the same price as the guy from,

you know, th the the pain in the butt job that doesn't pay his bill.

And so we looked at that and one of the price increase

~ cycles that we went through.

We were just like, and and it's been a couple of them where we've just said,

let's let's maintain better pricing for our long-term customers that

pay their bills that that are fun to work with.

And then you know the guys that are just the bottom feeders,

they just want the cheapest price,

or the customers that are that are paying,

like they're they're gonna have to pay the other price,

right? And so it really is rewarding our long-term customers that

pay their bills really well.

~ and that's been something that's been really good for us and

and just maintains that great relationship with with our existing customers.

I think there's so many, you know,

in the in the trades, I think it's so common for people like,

yeah, well I've worked with them long enough,

I can just start charging them more,

I can start charging them more.

And really we we we try to make our our best margins from the people that have been

most faithful to us. And I I just think that's so backwards.

I I prefer to go, I want to treat them the best because they've been faithful.

And I'm gonna d I I'm gonna get the new guy walking in the door,

he's gonna probably pay a little more.

Absolutely. I love that model.

That was ~ kind of my approach as well is the customers that are gonna hire

you regardless of your price, you need to return that loyalty and

and treat them fairly. You should make good money on the job,

but that's not an opportunity to take advantage of somebody.

That's that's that repeat business that's gonna keep coming back as long

as you treat fairly. So

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you're gonna y when that when that long term customer

when they do their shopping and you're found with your hand in the cookie jar,

your long term relationship just became nothing.

Tell me about a project or equipment failure that came close to being a disaster,

and how did your team respond?

So that that's really highly confidential information.

We we don't

Yeah.

want under underwriters to ever hear this.

now most most often, you know,

we're we got heavy equipment, we got big trucks rolling down the road.

most of my risk is really driving.

I that's probably where where most of my claims have come from in the last 10 years.

and then the other part of it is we're pushing,

we're using high pressure to push.

questionable materials through pipes and hoses.

so those really are the the avenues that we've had the you know kind

of the the worst things happen.

you know so what are you gonna do?

You you hire well, you fire quickly,

you ~ continually train your guys how to drive and how to

not blow hoses everywhere. and then you do a lot of praying.

But yeah definitely there's

There's been times where we've had some situations that that could have went

sideways, coulda went could have went bad,

but thankfully the the Lord has spared us from any big disasters.

Good. Well, this is a job that has some high liability.

and there there's definitely some skill and technical ability involved

in the work that you perform. I it also carries a lot of responsibility

and ~ I'm sure your guys have to have a high level of judgment.

Which do you prioritize more in hiring and training?

Do you do you hire for technical skill and try to train the judgment?

Or do you hire somebody that exhibits good judgment and train the technical skill?

Yeah.

you you really have a hard time training good judgment.

I I think we have tried that and ~ it's it's putting square pegs through round

holes. I it just we we've had to definitely terminate a couple guys just because

of ~ poor judgment and and lack of responsibility.

I would I would rather somebody that that is is stable

is you you can sense that they make they make good judgment calls.

and we'll train in the technical part of it.

We'll train them. I can't I can't teach someone to be a hard worker,

right? They they they had to be taught that before they get to me.

but I I I would say probably one of the greatest blessings we've had over

the last 10 years is just having guys come to us that have better than average

judgment. I I think that you know although we've had to we've had to let a couple go

overall we have just a phenomenal group of guys that have great judgment

and are very responsible.

W what is the biggest bottleneck or constraint in your business?

I know you said you you're growing based on people.

You hire good people when they're presented,

~ rather than targeting you know,

a specific growth model or specific financial goals.

But w what is the greatest bottleneck to growth?

Is it people, equipment, or management capacity?

I I would say, you know, with with where we're at today,

I would probably just say you know,

management capacity. just good we have a great team,

but obviously we're at this point too in our market where you know ~ as we expand,

if we expanded our footprint, as as we,

you know, multiply, whatever, you know,

it's definitely gonna take some more management level,

some some ~ some good managers in that process.

~ I I I really do I do feel that as we continue to invest in more leadership,

the guys that can carry the torch and and just keep keep things moving forward,

I I see opportunities and and ~ things things coming out of that.

Y you mentioned leadership there and I imagine ~ as you've stepped away

and now run the business remotely,

~ you rely a lot on leadership and middle management.

Have you ever put the wrong person in a leadership position and what

did you learn from that experience?

Yeah, I w we did a couple years in we we had added a younger a younger manager

and ~ you know just looking hindsight now i it was it was a lot more than really

what what you know his age and his experience what what was fair for him.

but that was really a a a learning curve and and he did really well.

He did he did his best.

But definitely had just ha came to realize that that it was just the wrong

it was the wrong fit and that that we needed to to needed to make a change.

over the last few years have kind of removed yourself from the daily operations.

rather than being on site in Pennsylvania,

you're now running the company from Idaho.

What did that process look like of transitioning from,

you know, in the shop every day,

interacting with the guys, kind of a part of the the everyday operations

to running it remotely? What what big changes did you have to make

to make that possible?

Yeah.

So

when we when we bought the business,

we had ~ we had one office in our original location in in Paradise,

Pennsylvania. so Marlin, my business partner,

that was kind of his office. And then when we had hired a scheduler,

he was he was in that office as well.

But ~ two guys was kind of max.

If you had two guys on the phone in there,

it one was too many. if you had two guys in there,

the second guy was too many.

So it was hard to have conversation.

So growing in, we knew that I was gonna have an office set up at home.

I I was gonna be on the road selling if I wasn't out pumping concrete.

And so I never even i the first couple years being in paradise,

I never was tangibly in the office at that like at the shop that much.

I was I was out selling jobs, I was out pumping concrete,

and then I would I would try to get there as much as I could just

to interact with the guys.

as as you know things changed,

we grew, we moved to Effort of Pennsylvania,

where our current shop is. We bought some land there and and had

had put another shop on it. And and once we got set up there,

we had more office space. So I had actually set up an office there,

started interacting with the guys more kind of ~ more often.

but I will tell you, in in our in our culture,

a lot of times our guys are dispatched right from their house in the morning.

and straight to the job site and it's common that they'll hit a car wash coming home

to wash their pump and truck and they'll fuel up at the gas station

and you know they may not come back to the shop.

And and so there were there many of our guys,

our managers don't see for a couple of weeks 'cause they just they don't

th they're not crossing paths with we don't have a set start time 'cause

I may have guys leaving at one in the morning and I may have guys that don't have

concrete till eleven in the morning.

So it just

the schedules are so varied. and so ~ even working on site in

our office at Pennsylvania in Effort,

I ~ I was not interacting a a significant amount with the guys.

If we did a bigger project, bigger shaky job,

I would always try to go out, be on the job just so I'm I'm getting

to rub shoulders more with the guys.

but the culture is not one where like the boss needs to be there every morning

or people have no idea what to do.

Like thankfully everyone everyone has pretty good idea.

Like they have

calendars that we use to to set up their jobs and they look at their calendar,

it tells them what they need and they go do their they go do their job.

so when l considering this move to Idaho,

basically the three months kind of leading up to us moving,

I I did go back to working remote at it at home and ~ and that was strategic just

to be like, let's make sure that this is all flowing well and that,

you know, technology is doing its thing,

the improvements we had done and ~

And just making sure that that was gonna work without me being there daily.

And so you mentioned there, early on your role was kind of sales and even

in the field doing operations.

~ what does your role look like now and what did that transition look like?

At what point did you start giving up,

you know, being in the field running a pump truck,

doing sales and and what did you take on or what got bigger as you made that change?

Well I did one of the goals in in this changing careers was not to to live

a life of stress that that my family had to wear.

And so a couple years in I was just finding that I'm out pumping concrete

and I'm out selling and I'm just constantly out.

And then the payroll, the payables,

the the the insurance, all the stuff that needs done ~ in my world would would

sit there and then end up being the night and weekend stuff.

And so it was like, man, this is not this is not what we set out to do.

And so ~ actually had a young young man who's now one of one of my partners that

was really doing well in the concrete lifting side and and he was just begging like

give it to me, let me manage this.

I can I can grow it to something that you can't and it was like wanted opportunity

and and so that really was like one of the best things that ever happened was me

Handing that baton off to him and letting him run it.

He's just he's done just a phenomenal job.

and and so and then the pumping side,

like I would still go out if if it was like,

man, we had something break down or th there was a a there was major trouble.

I I could run out and pump concrete until I had physically moved to Idaho.

I'd I had no problem doing that.

but by doing that, intentionally shifting me into the office,

then I could focus more on on strategic growth,

on

~ just all the stuff as as you know that has to happen on the back end.

So y y you brought up there a a young guy that you said is now one of your partners.

you bought this business in partnership.

And now it sounds like it brought in some new partners.

Tell us a little bit about that structure.

~ how did it work with your original partners?

What has been the process to bring in new partners?

And ~ how how does that dynamic work?

I've I've kind of been one that's always opposed to partnerships,

but I know you and I have talked in the past.

You you ~ seem to use them well and they work well for you.

~ tell us a little bit about that.

So

when we met initially with our our original legal counsel,

our attorney, it would be kind of this whole brainstorm,

well, I'd always been told like never be 50-50 partners with somebody because

you know it never works, somebody has to be in charge.

And so we went and met with the legal counsel and we were like,

okay, well eventually Marlon wants to be able to retire,

so why don't we have him be the fifty-two guy now?

But let's put in writing that at whatever point Richie becomes

the fifty-two percent guy and

And we met with the attorney, he was just like,

you know, if if you can't get along as as fifty fifty partners,

you're not gonna get along as fifty-two forty-eight partners.

He's like, If you're if you're

Yeah.

that worried about it, you're probably should should pump the brakes

and and restart, you know, not not do this.

And that was that was great advice.

we did we did start out as as fifty fifty partners.

and we've kind of always in you know,

we we knew that at some point Marlon's gonna

wanna start slowing down, and that I would be ~ the initial plan was that

I would buy him out, potentially do something,

you know, family business on my end.

but but it was always that I would probably phase him out.

and then, you know, as we just as as the business grew,

as we we had a couple key managers that that we were,

you know, just thinking in terms of long term planning.

Yeah, and then too as, you know,

even before I had had considered the move to Idaho,

we we just saw the value in having partners with Marlon and I,

it it worked so phenomenally well.

there were times where I just needed to defer to his opinion and there

was times he deferred to mine and and we just we really did work together well

in harmony. you know, one of one of the

times that it was just one of the hardest times we went through.

But but Marlon's wife was diagnosed with an illness just a couple years into

our partnership and and eventually it it it took her life,

you know, three years after fighting it,

he would tell you like to have gone through that without a partner.

Like he it would have just it would have been almost impossible.

And so watching God just provide for us and and and watch over

our relationship during that time when he needed to step back.

was just phenomenal. So so as Marlon now has gotten close to that point where he's

ready to to slow down. we've just we had brought a a business coach

on board that that was has been working with us and and just kind of giving

us some advice. We we're bringing a a couple younger guys on that

are you know Benton being one of them.

He's a guy that that runs the concrete lifting side and they just kinda have their

own their own roles and what they do,

but just really

really caring about what they do and and very much taking ownership

of of their role.

you mentioned that you each have different roles that you complement each other

well. you said kinda in the beginning that y you had a little more business

experience, handled a lot of the financials,

the back end of the business, your partner had more

operational experience and was kind of running operations as the operations manager.

how did that arrangement work?

Did that change or shift? you know,

when his wife was sick, did you have to take over more operations?

And then how did the new partners fall into that mix?

What does that look like? What does each partner kind of bring to the table that

the other doesn't?

So when when Marlon's wife got sick and and initially it was like yeah,

there was appointments, but it it wasn't you know,

it was it was a it was a mental thing for him to walk through,

but it his physical presence was still pretty there,

pretty much there at at the shop.

As as things progressed and then he did become more ~ just he he needed

to be with his wife and I wanted him to be with his wife.

Like I I didn't want him to be at work.

so

I I would just say, you know, the the first question there,

there were definitely some bumps in the road.

It because what happened as I I did take on more operational stuff.

I would start to see little cracks that are happening,

and so I was taking on roles and and helping hey guys,

if you need this, just don't even bother Marlin,

reach out to me and and what what I found then was that that it it actually worked.

Like I was carrying a lot more and it was a lot like

But but the Lord gave me the strength to get through it.

What I think the greater challenge almost was is then as as you know

his wife passed away and kind of that first year he was really just just grieving

and and walking through that process.

A year, you know, a year in then he's ready to take on those roles.

And what was happening is guys are reaching out to me for things that they would

used to reach out to him. Right.

And so there was they

Definitely remember a very clear conversation we had,

and and I knew I've gotta step back,

reclaim my role, let him do his role,

even if it's even if it's still not not a hundred percent because we need

to stay unified and and definitely just like a marriage,

everybody's gotta have their role and you gotta know you gotta know what

w where you start and where you stop.

I would say then with the the younger guys coming in,

They definitely have different talents that that ~ you know,

that impact where we've placed them.

Benton is much more of a go getter,

go, go, like let's go conquer the world guy.

And so he's he's driving, you know,

the one division forward right now.

not sure where exactly, you know,

h he'll end up in the company,

but he just he continues to grow in that role.

Where Will is more of a like he's much more of a detail guy.

Like your your best guys driving forward are not usually your guys that

are good with detail. So

Will's the detail guy. So he's

Yeah.

oftentimes you know cleaning the paperwork up behind and and he's he's definitely

more involved in the clerical work,

but he's also kind of providing some oversight and support to the operation side,

kind of as Marlin starts to slow down,

then Will's kind of transitioning into some of that,

some of that oversight. He doesn't have as much technical experience as Marlon.

but it it kind of it it provides you know additional oversight

for that that division.

how do you handle difficult decisions?

Have there been any decisions where you guys were opposed and and really

had to work to come to agreement?

I would say we we really we really have not struggled through that a lot.

the best thing that ever the best thing we ever did was was go into

a business coach. I would say that was kind of at a point where,

you know, we we knew that change needed to happen.

We you know, we knew we had g a couple guys that were interested in coming on board.

Going to a business coach was like the best thing for us just because

we could sit down with a third party.

This guy has he's actually a pastor is one of his one of his roles,

but he has multiple businesses that he's a partner in.

And so he's bought and sold in in and out of various companies.

And so having his experience to sit there with us and give us insight

and wisdom and like it

It was it was probably like that was the one decision we needed the most help with

was just like an outside party to give us some counsel going through it.

And and he like it worked out really,

really well. And then today, like i if there's something tough that

we need to decide or something that goes beyond like we're just like,

man, what do we do? There we definitely will bounce that stuff

off our business coach. we will we will save it for our our monthly meeting with

the business coach just because we value his input and we know that there's there's

wisdom there.

but yeah, i overall I would say like there's been times where,

you know, maybe I was the guy that's like,

Hey, we need to go buy that big new shiny pump and Marlon's like,

dude, that's not gonna really make us that much money and Okay,

yeah, you're you're right, right?

Like so we definitely kind of just keep each other in line when maybe one

of us has had a crazy idea. But we have really been unified.

I it has been it has been phenomenal.

what level of decisions is either partner able to make without consulting the other?

How do you divide who can decide what and at what point do you need

to come together and agree before moving forward?

Yeah, our our operating agreement would specify certain financial limits

to like what what a a one partner can spend or you know that that's always

one that that people point to.

But really within our role, like I I don't want to be micromanaging what everybody

else is doing. our our managers,

I mean and I'll tell you it's it's a level of trust that that extends throughout.

including our guys. On day number one,

if I've trusted you to be hired on my company,

I'm trusting you to carry a company credit card.

And and that's you know the I guess that that shows a little bit of

the level of trust that's there.

I don't want my guys to be anywhere,

need to have parts or fuel or you name it and not be able to go to the

to the local store and get it.

So within our our management it's very much the same.

~ but it comes down to communication.

Like I know that like I'm not gonna order a half million dollar piece

of equipment without I'm gonna have conversation with each one of my partners.

and we're all gonna be in agreement with that,

or I'm not ordering a piece of equipment.

And and even, you know, my some of the the younger partners coming in.

I just had a conversation today about ordering inventory.

It's like, Hey, are you good if I order this inventory?

And and it's you know, it's thousands of dollars.

And it's like, Yeah, yeah, I'd like

Whatever you need, man, whatever you need,

I trust you, you order it. But he still has that respect and there's just that great

communication where he's like,

Yeah, I'm just giving you the heads up and I know you don't care,

but I'm just letting you know if you're gonna have a big bill coming.

And it comes down to communication and then our our management style

is just very much like I I trust you to make the right call.

How do you handle appropriate compensation for the partners?

you guys get paid a salary commensurate for the the specific job that

you perform and then receive profits or distributions from the company?

~ i how do you level that out so that you feel like everyone

is getting paid appropriately for what they're contributing?

Yeah, initially when we when Marlon and I started out,

we set ourselves pretty low salary because we were like,

well, we're gonna be the last guys getting paid.

So let's let's start out really conservative and we'll go from there.

And of course then the accountant's like,

you better be you you shouldn't be the the lowest paid guys on the payroll.

Like that doesn't look good. I was like,

okay. So anyway, ~ w we definitely we feel very strongly that

you should be paid appropriately for your role outside of any distribution.

So if you're if you're banking on like I make good money for the role

I do because of distributions I get,

then then we're not doing our job.

Like you should be paid for your role through payroll as comp you know,

as salary and then and then like,

hey, if God blesses us with distributions,

like that's awesome.

have you ever disagreed over whether profit should be reinvested into

the company or paid out as distributions?

You know, I I really I honestly don't think there's ever been one time we've we've

disagreed in that. And and I know it's a it's a tricky area for people.

I I think Marlon and I were always just we were pretty unselfish with

our own personal needs. So it was like if the business you know,

if we didn't need to reinvest in equipment,

you know, before I'm I'm looking at distribution,

it's what is our debt? Do we have debt?

Like I would rather if I'm not buying equipment,

let's let's pay off debt.

~ and then, you know, as far as as far as distributions,

my business partner always says,

I got the wheelbarrow ready whenever you send it.

Like I've I've I got the wheelbarrow ready to go to the bank.

Well, i you brought up something there.

~ I know you guys took on some debt from the previous owner.

You did some owner financing. You're also in a business that's very equipment heavy

and you mentioned, you know, a pump that costs one point two million dollars.

how what has been your approach to debt?

Do you use debt? Do you avoid debt?

what does that look like inside your company?

So when we started out, we we were very determined.

We actually, the prior owner had set up a a twenty year note ~ at a fixed rate,

which was just phenomenal. Like that that's beautiful.

but we also it it was a little complicated,

right? It's it's I think it's a little clunky whenever you go through

a transaction and and maybe some unmet expectations along the way.

So we were really committed to like let's

you know, let's figure out how how to get this paid off as soon as we can.

In fact, so we bought in twenty seventeen and twenty twenty we refinanced.

we were able to to refinance the business three and a half percent,

which is actually ended up being locked in through when we paid off the business.

So like we were blessed there tremendously,

right? You're not getting that in 2026.

so that that worked

No.

out really well. As we had debt,

what what our goal was like I don't ever want to

borrow money outside of the debt we already have to buy equipment.

It's like let's let's go save our money,

let's go set aside profit and and we will we will live more,

you know, we'll be frugal personally and and not just sucking the company

dry in order to c have that cash to be able to buy and update equipment.

So we actually as we had debt we we just continued to focus on paying

the debt but setting certain amounts aside

And then as we go into the upcoming year or whenever we're buying equipment,

it is always negotiated based on basically cash flow.

So I want to have that if it's a half million dollar piece of equipment,

I want it shipping when I'm comfortable that that like I can do that without debt.

That's just always been a goal of ours.

especially when we had debt, we became debt-free then in year number nine.

And praise God for that.

It was a good feeling, but at that point too,

we were like, why should we change it now?

Like, let's set aside profits and let's continue to save.

I'm not saying that that the other model is wrong.

I think I think if you looked at just an incredible growth goal and trying

to like I want to put concrete pumps all over the US,

I I think you'd have to definitely leverage a lot more to do that.

That's not our goal. And ~ I I just,

you know, i every time we buy a pump.

ever you know, I get all the calls from the finance companies,

hey, we want to finance your pump and and I I know it's the trend.

Like the concrete pumping industry is known,

like they finance all their stuff.

But you go through another tw 2008 in 2027.

I would rather have my shop full of pumps sitting there that are debt free than

to be making payments on every single one of those pieces of equipment.

So that's just been our way of thinking.

Not saying it's right. ~ it's just that man,

I I like sleeping at night.

Amen. That was always my approach.

I agree a hundred percent, but it's good to hear from someone else's perspective.

So going back to the partnership a little bit,

it it sounds like this has worked out well for you.

~ you're one of only a few successful partnership stories that I've heard

as a a successful partnership.

What do you think are the key things that someone needs to evaluate

in a partner before agreeing to partner on a business?

you know, I'm I'm a Christ follower,

and so a as a Christian, it's first Corinthians six fourteen.

It just i it warns believers not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.

And and generally you will hear that regarding marriage.

Like don't marry someone that's not a Christian if you're a Christian,

and it's it's great advice. I believe that applies to business.

So for me, that would be first and foremost.

I think my you know my ideals,

my goals, my vision is gonna be very different than somebody that that

is not a Christian. ~ so that's number one.

After that, ~ you know, what are their what things does that person bring

to the table that I can't already provide?

can our personalities work together?

Is this person just gonna drive me nuts,

right? Do I what is their work ethic?

How hard are they a hard worker?

Were they taught how to work hard?

~ and then and then just as important there is like what do people say about them?

What's their reputation in the community,

at their church, like are do they lead their family well?

Like I w what kind of a guy am I talking about?

So y you have completely moved to running your company remotely.

You're now in Idaho and have been there for quite a while.

Were there any issues or things that kind of broke during that transition that

you were not prepared for?

I had I had mentioned the the younger manager that we had set up i

a couple years into business and and that was that was actually the first thing that

kind of broke after I had left.

He he was a manager overseeing our schedule and i it just became super stressful

for him and and I don't know that it was necessarily like me leaving

it added and it it did force more responsibility on him.

I wasn't necessarily sitting in the office right down the eye,

you know, right down the hallway to ask if something went south.

but it the the job was pretty stressful.

And and so, you know, I think it that was the first train that went

off the track and and we had to regroup and and set up another scheduler.

And but I I, you know, looking back it was it was the best thing for him

and it was the best thing for us.

Okay, well that's a great result.

You can't argue with that.

What does communication look like running the company remotely?

How frequently do you check in with your team?

do you have a regular schedule?

Do you make calls when you need to?

What does that look like communicating back and forth?

I have definitely improved in this area.

coming out here, I didn't I didn't kind of like set up a regular amount

of times I was gonna call. I actually starting out,

I was trying to call all my guys like every couple weeks.

And and so I I was I was struggling at getting to all that.

And in the meantime, so I would be talking to guys in the field and they might tell

me about maybe a need they have,

but then I realized like they weren't actually telling somebody that could fix it.

For them. I mean I can I

Yeah.

can call someone else, but I I really in that first year of living here,

I realized like I need to focus on intense communication with my managers

and then making sure they're communicating and sensing the needs because they're

ultimately the ones that are gonna fix it.

and then just you know, for me,

I can I can communicate with with the managers and make sure things are flowing.

W the ch the tough part for me is one of the favorite things of my

job is actually talking to guys and and like them telling me about you know,

maybe maybe a challenge you're having with child or their spouse and

and and getting to talk to them and pray with them.

Like I I really enjoy that. And so I do I am intentional about continuing

to check in with guys just because I I just I care about each one of and

and I do miss those those interactions.

I think that's a a sign of a great leader is someone that connects

and cares about their people. did you get any pushback from customers

or vendors or other people that you work with that maybe saw ~

you running the business remotely as disengagement or might have been worried about

services taking a drop or a decline as you made that move?

not not really anything negative.

I it came up in conversation. I I always laugh because I I still answer some calls,

like I'll take some some bleedover calls,

sales calls, and and I'll answer the phone and it's like,

Hey, nice day out there today and I'm like,

Yeah, it is and I actually do usually know what the weather is because we're we're

very heavily in a we're in a weather related industry and we're we're affected

by weather, but

it's just funny because they assume that I'm I'm sitting there very near them

in an office and and I'm twenty five hundred miles away.

But cut most of like the customers and vendors the that you know I communicate with,

like I still communicate with many of them often.

~ you know, especially some of our bigger customers,

I I communicate with them. And ~ I I really have not gotten like hate from anybody.

Like it it's it's not been ~ I think they were all

I I think if they would have seen s service take a hit and they would have

it would have impacted them negatively in any way,

I think that I think I would have heard about it.

But I I think that they've seen that like there's a really good team that's there

and and it's okay that I'm not there.

How frequently do you return to Pennsylvania?

So

my commitment w when I left was I will be there quarterly.

the first couple years I I was there I think five times each of those years,

~ just with extra meetings and different things going on.

~ we my wife and I both have family in Pennsylvania,

so we we kind of make it a a work family trip ~ a couple times a year is

my goal and and so we can

see some different things along the way as a family,

but then I can I can do some work there.

Kids can see grandparents and cousins and and have fun there.

but yeah, ~ quarter is is what I committed to with my wife this year.

We had a baby in December. And so I was I was I did promise her that I will

try not to travel the extra time this year.

but in saying that like we understand like if if there was an emergency,

there was a disaster, like I I I'd be on the first plane out of Spokane.

Headed east.

Do you think that's a possibility for most businesses

and specifically trade businesses,

or is there something unique about your business that has allowed you

to run it remotely?

So

I I think I think you could. I think whether you brought

on minority partners that that can take ownership and run the day-to-day,

I I think that's a must. But if you're not willing to do that,

I think you gotta be willing to pay really good managers.

~ someone doesn't have to be a partner.

I think they can be really well compensated and and make it worth their while.

but you know, in today's

in today's climate of of you know hiring good people,

that person is not cheap, right?

Like you think about that person that you can trust your business with

so that you could be away for three weeks,

right? Like you you're gonna struggle to to have that person if you're

not willing to to just pay exceptionally well.

And you gotta find the right person.

so I do think it's possible, but I I think it comes at a cost and and

I was fully aware of moving to Idaho.

It was not a financially like it was not for financial gain.

I I knew that it was not it was not gonna make me wealthier to move to North Idaho.

So you're ten years in. you've brought on partners,

changed partners, brought new partners in,

~ faced all kinds of issues just simply running the business

and now transitioned remotely.

What was the most difficult season that you have faced over the last decade?

Hmm.

So I I would say that there was two things two two different seasons,

which actually they overlap. I'd already mentioned my my business partner having

his wife be ill and and then eventually pass away.

that was by far the hardest thing that that we went through,

that I've gone through in this business.

just just super, super difficult and and ~ was a real challenge.

Learned a lot through that. I I definitely have,

you know.

If if you had ~ any listeners that that are facing that,

I I would be happy to talk to them about it.

Just like some some advice along the way.

We would do things so much different than what we did walking through that.

And and it does happen, right?

In partnerships, it it does happen more than you think.

so definitely learned a lot through that.

the second one was just 2020. financially,

we we ended up in not a bad year.

Like it it was actually okay.

But the journey ~ we went through in in a you know the the climate

in Pennsylvania with with business was so difficult to manage the regulation.

just the the constant changes in what they were telling us.

And you know, we were we were deemed construction was deemed not essential,

right? I don't want to bring up all the twenty twenty stuff,

but we were not essential. And I literally remember sitting at the dinner table.

And I think my father in law texted me and was like,

Did you see the news? And I pull it up and it's like,

you know, all these trades are you know,

all of these entities are no longer allowed to work.

Effective, like immediately. And and I remember just like going down

to my officer at the house and and just breaking down it it I had never laid someone

off in my own business. And and so just realizing that I was gonna have

to tell twelve guys that ~ you know,

that that they didn't have work the next day.

~ it's just it

it's stuff we should never have had to gone through.

I just I'm really hoping that that we've learned our lesson and we don't

try this kind of tyranny again because it was man,

the the mental anxiety and and just the everything they put all of

us through in that year were it it was incredible.

But, you know, the good thing through it,

I figured out that there might be other areas of this country that still appreciate

freedoms and I landed in North Idaho.

Good stuff. What is your greatest fear today?

you know, I I think my greatest fear,

you know, being being debt free was like like I think that was a big thing,

like what if things fall flat and I have these bank payments and and

so that was definitely something that that I worried and and had to trust

the Lord in. But but I think probably my greatest fear now is just that that

the guys that are the future, you know,

the guys that that someday I'm gonna hand the baton off to to

people that are gonna carry this and make it greater than you know that than I've

ever been able to to make it is that that they just continue to make good choices,

that they they they treat the employees well,

you know, that they they focus on a good good reputation and that they're leading

their families well. I I think that's probably like if I had to pick

a fear would just be that I I wanna see them do really well.

That's probably my my area that I I think about the most.

What is the most costly mistake that you have made?

What what mistake cost you the most money?

Well,

I I would say we we've had it it's a lot of little costly things.

a story you'll enjoy. We were doing a job two hours away at an army base,

and in order to get into the army base,

there was one prerequisite, and that is that you needed your US driver's license,

your Pennsylvania driver's license in order to enter.

And so we had really bold big letters on the the calendar to make sure

you take your driver's license.

And you know where this is going because the operator got there and did

not have his driver's license.

And so like yeah, those fifteen hundred dollar pump rental lost

and four thousand dollars in concrete that we bought that day,

and ~ it was a it was a rough day.

~ but it those kind of things are the things that go,

~ like are you serious? thankfully we've not had the the big disasters like like

some people ~ in in construction I know just have had just extremely big losses.

~ we've we definitely've had the ten,

twenty thousand dollar, you know,

equipment issues, you know, that were maybe man caused by man,

~ lack of maintenance, whatever,

and and we've definitely experienced those and and had to walk through,

but but we've we've really been blessed with not having huge significant losses.

Is there an opinion that you once held strongly that you've changed because

of your experience?

Yeah,

I think there's two. I I think that ~ a couple things that I've I've really changed

my mindset on my mindset on and one is so popular just to to

say the customer's always right.

I I heard that so many times, you know,

in my prior life and yeah the customer's not always right.

And and when you take the customer as right mentality and and st you stand on that.

~ you really lose the confidence of your people.

And so when I when I started working at Keystone,

that was something they're like,

whoa, like, no, the customer is not always right.

And and learning to just stand with my employees to defend them when when necessary,

you know, and not bowing down to an unrealistic customer,

that has really been an honor.

That's something that I've I've definitely learned.

the other thing that that I've learned I've really changed my mindset in,

~

I took a lot of pride in my in my role and my position and and just the name,

you know, we were in the flooring industry and who I worked for.

And you know, I was known in that industry for fifteen years and and

I would network and so I just built like a I felt like an incredible network.

during one of my meetings with the with the prior owner,

Malin he he said something to me that has always stuck with me and and

I think it's it's worthwhile to share here with you.

It just he said be known for who you are and not what you do.

And that's be known for who you are and not what you do.

And you know, when you think about that statement,

it it really does just drive you to think about the bigger things of life.

Like who am I as a person, as a husband,

as a father, as a community member,

and not just being the biggest concrete pumper or the flooring guy or

the roof or right? Like, like it,

it really is a shift in my mindset that was like,

man, I just want to be like the best.

richie that I can be, like and who God wants me to be,

not not just be like the biggest pump com pumping company in the world.

And and so that's been something just a that's really been a mind s a mind shift

for me.

Hm. Good stuff. There's some wisdom there.

Y you mentioned that ~ you've invested in a business coach.

there you just mentioned that you got some good advice from the previous owner.

What has been your best resource to grow ~ through this process

and becoming a better leader?

So our are there was definitely some wise people in in my life that that have

influenced me and and one of them once said,

don't hire the cheap accountant,

right? that was definitely some good advice.

we we have been have

Yeah.

been blessed to have some good professional,

you know, guides along the way.

~ but but d just you know my my dad teaching me the the hard work ethic like

that that was such a a big thing and and wisdom and and character

and and that stuff. Like I y you just can't you can't teach that stuff to an adult.

And so I really do do credit him for that.

my father in law such a a wise man with so many business things and

so working for him for fifteen years,

like he he taught me so much. his father in law actually was a

very successful businessman and and had taught him so much.

And so I got to enjoy some of that teaching.

It would have been Chaston's grandpa un until he passed away in twenty fifteen.

just just gave great advice. And you know,

so since since moving, there's guys here locally,

Bill Rapier is is retired Navy SEAL and and just he's he's actually

one of the elders at our church,

but one of the one of the guys that I was listening to him on a podcast,

right, and just very influential with he

you know after finishing his time in the teams he he has started multiple businesses

and and so just been someone that talking to him is inspiring and

and hearing some of his journey and and just kind of like it his vision doesn't die.

Like it's just like he's still thinking of greater things.

And his dad is a is a local guy here that's just poured time into me

and been an encouragement to me.

and then obviously our business coach has just given us a wealth of

of information and knowledge along the way and and just been a just a good asset

for us.

It it seems like

It's

everybody that has run a failed business or got laid off as an executive

in a business is now a business coach.

how do you how do you identify someone with real experience,

someone with real expertise that can provide the knowledge that you need rather than

someone that ran a business into the ground and then decided to coach others

on how to do it?

Yeah.

So I would be very wary of the the the business coach that doesn't come without

a referral. ~ when we were starting out,

so there was this like non-profit coaching,

business coaching association in Lancaster County,

and and actually what it was was it was a lot of ex-Armstrong flooring,

which Armstrong flooring ended up going bankrupt,

but all their executives that bankrupted the company

became business coaches and volunteered their time to the local community.

How great. And so not thinking through like the the wisdom in that,

~ we did go and meet with the one guy and and ~ we kind of laid books out for him.

We're what do you think of this opportunity?

And he's like, I would never do this.

so my I my my perception of business coaches is I I definitely am a

a little bit skeptical.

But I I definitely feel like there's huge wisdom in in having the right

one and and someone you can trust.

Do you think it's still possible for someone to do what you have done?

Are there still opportunities for the young person today to buy or build

a business and become successful?

Yes,

absolutely. I I think that that faithfulness is the key.

I I think it's too easy when I'm when I'm eighteen years old and I start

a career and it's like man I'm I'm working hard and I don't see like that instant

result. it's like I'm done here.

And and I think that's become so much the trend,

just with with just constant turnover and and I think the days of

you know where where guys had worked for a company for for thirty plus years

Yeah, we're we're blessed with a a couple employees that have been here thirty more

than thirty years and and is just so grateful for that the tenure there.

but as as a young person starting out,

it's it's like how do I see beyond,

like how do I see the vision to make it worthwhile to stick at what I'm doing?

Benton Moyer, who's who's one of my business partners,

he started working for me when he right as he turned eighteen so

he could run equipment.

But not long after he had a mentor in his life that he said to him,

like, What should I be doing? Like,

how do I get to be successful?

And his mentor, who is a a successful businessman,

said, Well, have you ever talked to your bosses and told him that you want

to be you know you'd like to be a partner someday?

And ~ he's like, No, I I never talked to him.

So he literally came up to me,

this is not long after he started,

and was just like, Hey, I hope you see like I'm really committed here and

He's like, if there was ever an opportunity,

like I would love to buy into this company,

well, he's he's now my business partner.

So like I I think that faithfulness and then just the willingness

to ask for opportunities. I think it's easy to to like get in the rut

and it's like almost like I complain about my job because I don't necessarily like

what I'm doing, but to actually have that confidence to go to your boss and say,

hey.

What does the future look like?

Like is there an opportunity for for me to be a have a bigger part of this

in the future? Like I that just doesn't happen today the way it should,

but I I think it should. And and I think that we'd see successful transitions

of businesses today, ~ to even current employees,

because that like owners could see that desire in their young people.

You you've been running Keystone for a decade now.

~ y you said your one partner,

your original partner is kinda moving out.

He's moving towards retirement,

ready to be done. You're bringing in some younger partners.

You guys have grown the business considerably in the next or in the last decade.

What's next? Where are you headed?

Do you have any big goals for growth or retirement,

divestment, new partners? What what's coming up next?

So

we definitely, you know, have we definitely look for opportunities.

we are we do hold it with open hands because like we are we

are construction driven and so you know we we don't know what what next year brings.

Our our managers are are definitely incentivized,

they're they're driven and so they're you know they're looking for opportunities,

they're looking for ways that that we can grow.

You know, I I think you're gonna see more of the same,

more of what what we've been doing.

You know, one of the things we did along the way,

like we bought out a a little pump company in our area that,

you know, bought up their assets in their pump and and their ~ actually hired their

employee, bought their phone number and and so like things like that we've been able

to just just been huge opportunities and and I'll come back to

the cash thing because of managing cash,

like it with that particular guy,

like he needed a job.

they were closing their doors and so it's kinda not al like he wanted

to go where the pump was going and you needed to be able to buy that expensive pump

like today. And so being able to just like ha have the ability to be agile

and and hop out and and chase that opportunity was was big.

so looking for opportunities in the future.

you know I I I'm not opposed to to multiple locations.

Like if if God would open those doors and and we have qualified managers

and qualified employees to do it.

~

we're we're gonna continue to grow,

we're we're continuing to to to advertise and and grow,

you know, the reputation in our region.

so we'll we'll see where it goes.

it personally for me, I I definitely like I I'm in tune with

the long-term planning and and I want to see you know like Marlon is my

was my fifty fifty partner. I now carry majority in the company and and just

to to kind of add stability, you know,

going into the future. but these younger guys as they continue to

you know, buy equity from from Marlin and and we continue to to have

new managers join the team. I I'm not opposed to ~ additional partners.

you know, if if that right person came along I I could see value in it.

but yeah, we'll just see. We'll see what what God provides.

Great. you've mentioned that you are a a Christian.

You've ~ alluded to your faith a few times during our conversation.

W what does being a Christian mean to you and how has that affected your leadership

and your business?

So,

you know, I I do believe that our our number one role here as as Christians

is to glorify God and to ~ you know in it enjoy him forever.

And so ~ you know, our managers when we meet,

we do we do start out with prayer.

you know, as as we consider opportunities,

we consider different things, we definitely pray about We we do put stock in

in praying and and asking the Lord for for guidance in those things.

I do believe good things come from him.

And so I, you know, trusting him,

just relying that that he will provide what we need.

There's so much peace in that.

Like if I got to worry about like how am I going to create this,

it definitely creates a lot of a lot of stress.

I I want to be clear, I'm like I'm not a name it and claim it guy.

So like I'm not the guy that's like,

hey you just pray man and you're going to have the billion dollar company next year.

I I do believe that ~ the Lord blesses those that work hard and and and

but yet he he gives the good gifts and so he is he is sovereign and all of it.

you know, another thing that drives me there just from a know

a spiritual standpoint, you know,

Proverbs Proverbs thirteen, twenty-two it says a good man leaves leaves

an inheritance to his children's children.

That's your grandkids, right? So like I I think the American dream is so much like

How much do you need to retire?

How are you gonna get there? And then when you get there,

it's like go move somewhere else and ~ hang out with a bunch of other

old people that did the same thing.

and I I just think that there's so much more to life.

There's so much more fulfilling things.

~ I I'm just so inspired. Like we're we're here in North Idaho.

it's a blue-collar, like the ability to buy real estate and and work

a blue-collar job, like it.

It's a challenging economy up here and and poverty is definitely a real thing

up here. so I I'm inspired. Like,

how do I make sure that my children's children,

I'm not just interested in just like donating a bunch of money to them,

but like how do I how do I help them?

How do we how do we now focus on like what are my children gonna do to

be able to make to to buy and own a home and raise a family in a

in a difficult blue-collar economy?

so

Don't wanna do handouts, do want to inspire them,

I wanna assist them through coaching or microfinancing or you know,

whatever's needed, I wanna be their greatest cheerleader.

but I definitely am you know, as I look to the future,

it's it's not ~ like, hey, when can I when can I just hang it up and,

you know, ~ go take the easy life.

y you've worked in

Mm-hmm.

construction in the trades with flooring and now concrete for a long time

to either s settle or fuel the debate if you have a job to do that requires

a cordless tool, which brand do you prefer?

I'm a red tool guy. Like I I definitely it's my garage is full of the red tool,

so sorry. Sorry we dewalt guys.

All right. The the playing field has been leveled a little bit.

I think DeWalt is still ahead by one or two,

but Milwaukee's been catching up the last week or two,

so

Yeah,

three.

All right. Well is there anybody that you think would ~ be great on From

the Ground Up show? Somebody that you'd like to hear from,

that you'd l ha has a great story,

runs an awesome business that you'd like to learn more about?

Yeah, ~ I mean I I definitely would recommend my friend Bill Rapier,

he he definitely is is running multiple businesses and and ~ as an inspiration.

So I definitely would highly recommend him as someone interview.

Otherwise yeah, can't can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

Awesome. Well, Richie, this has been a lot of fun.

~ you and I have been connected for quite a while now.

I love hearing about your business and what you're doing and I think it's gonna

be really beneficial for our listeners.

So thank you so much for your wisdom,

your insight and taking the time to teach us today.

Hey, thank you, Erick. I I appreciate what you're doing.

Keep up the good work.

Thank you for joining us here on From the Ground Up Show.

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