Merv Zook – The Last Man Standing Faith, Family, and finding God’s path in Trades

He goes why? Do you work so hard?

Why are you always, you know, working all trying to prove

yourself? Why are you working so hard?

I said, because when they close the doors, I want to be the last

guy they can get rid of. I want them to not be able to

afford to get rid of me. That's why I work the way I do.

It's been kind of my motto and, and here I am, I guess I'm the

last man standing. I count how many cars are in the

parking lot and I go, yeah, I'm responsible wherever.

Not only those people that drive those cars, but their wives,

their kids. It that was the scariest part

and just being responsible for others livelihoods.

And I can remember thinking, when am I going to get?

Used to this. I think the good Lord just.

Has a plan for you. And sometimes you don't always

know the plan. Sometimes you just got to put a

foot in front of the other one and go down the.

Path. Hey there and welcome to From

the Ground Up Show, the show where we encourage and inspire

the next generation of free thinking leaders by telling the

stories of those that have been there, done that and are still

getting it done, building a life that they love with their

hearts, their hands and their hustle.

I am your host, Eric Loden. Thank you guys for joining us

today. If you are enjoying the content,

help us out. Like share, follow, subscribe,

leave us a five star review. The five star reviews help a lot

moving us up in the algorithms and that's the best way to get

the show out there today. I'm really excited to have Merv

Zook joining me. Merv is the owner of Nice

Electric located in Mcminnville, OR he was a Co founder of Lanco

Mechanical in Pennsylvania. Merv is a father to four,

grandfather to four, with two more on the way, a husband and a

follower of Jesus. And Merv also happens to be my

father-in-law. So this is a fun one for me.

I get to learn some more about the family history and

background. So, Merv, thanks for joining us.

You bet. Good to be here.

Well, we start every show just learning a little bit about you.

Can you tell me a little bit about your childhood and what it

was like growing up? Sure.

So my parents were missionaries to the Red Lake Indians up in

Minnesota. So I was born in Minnesota and a

little town of Badat. And when I was like 5 years old,

well, I was 4 but turned 5 when we moved to Oregon back in 1968,

so a few minutes ago, and we moved out here, come from a

large family. I have seven brothers and one

sister. And so, yeah, we were all here

in Oregon, grew up in a little town of Sheridan and went to

grade school in Amity here in town or here in Oregon.

So yeah, my childhood was quite interesting, you know, with a

bunch of kids and I was the baby of the family.

So of course they all say I was spoiled, but I obviously wasn't.

But no, it, it was a good, good childhood I had.

I had great parents. They love Jesus and they taught

us a lot of things about faith and hard work.

And yeah, so grew up there in Boston just outside of Sheridan

on a little farm. And then when I was 17 years

old, my my father had heart disease and he passed away when

I was 17. So that was a life changing

event for our whole family, obviously, but for a 17 year old

junior in high school, it was quite traumatic.

But yeah, that so that happened in 1981.

So yeah, that was kind of my childhood growing up, the things

that really stick out to me. But yeah, good, good childhood.

But it seems like that hard work and entrepreneurial spirit was

something in the family is A lot of your brothers have gone on to

be leaders or run businesses and have a role in leadership as

well, haven't they? Yes, yeah.

So almost to A to a person, you know, they've been in some sort

of leadership role. You know, my brother Nathan, he

owned Amcraft cabinetry here in town.

He just retired. My brother Delvin ran the

retirement home, Rock of Ages for years.

And he just retired as well as CEO of Rock of Ages.

Yeah. I mean, I go down through the

list. My oldest brother Dave, he was a

logger and a truck driver. You know, he owned his own

truck. And I'm so yeah.

My brother Stan was head Fowler at the at the sawmill.

My brother Tim was a preacher and had his own business as a

contractor. The same with my brother Cliff

was a contractor. Then my my sister, she was, she

married Gary Nice, who is my brother-in-law from here at Nice

Electric. And then my brother Donovan, he

lives in Florida and he's been successful and they have a

coffee shop that they run over there and in North Carolina.

Yeah. So there's a bunch of us and

we've all been pretty successful.

You know, my, my dad was never a money man.

You know, he just, we didn't have money growing up, grew up

what I would consider pretty poor.

But I always say we had a roof over our head and food on the

table. And dad was Dad was more about

helping other people and making sure his family was taken care

of. But I know he spent a lot of

hours. Working on used cars and just

doing whatever it took to. Help us survive, yeah.

Is there something particular from the way that you were

raised that you think led to that drive and entrepreneurial

spirit that all 7 of you kind of wound up in that?

Yeah, I do think I need. I guess I probably.

Speak for myself more than for the rest of them.

But growing up, I knew what it was to be poor and I was always

kind of driven not necessarily by the money, but more just I

didn't want to be poor and I wanted to be able to pass some,

some sort of legacy, financial legacy as well as, you know,

Christian legacy on to my family.

So I don't know, I guess people sometimes would call me a penny

pincher because I was always saving a nickel, you know,

because for a rainy day, because I had seen it rain, you know.

And so yeah, for me personally, that that was part of a driving

force to provide for my family and and not always just be

barely on the edge of of getting by.

But, well, it seems like you've certainly been successful in

that endeavor. All four of your kids are grown,

married, successful in their own right, and all four of them love

Jesus and are pursuing the Lord. Yeah, we we, we are so, so

blessed. It's rare to find a family that

is as connected and united in their faith is yours.

So yeah, you did something right.

I appreciate that I credit their mom mostly.

Well, before we dive into Nice Electric, I know this is the the

second business that you've owned and run.

Can we talk a little bit about the the first you want to tell

us about Lanko Mechanical? Part of my growing up, I feel, I

feel like I've lived three different.

Lives pretty much I. I grew up in a little town of

Boston, like I said, then going to a Mennonite church.

Very conservative way to live. And then I went to college for a

couple years over in Treasure Valley in Ontario, OR I know you

had ties Stoler on. We kind of joke around.

We both were from Checker U, which is Treasure Valley.

And so I went there for a couple years and made a lot of friends

there. And then in 1985, I decided to

kind of go see the world a little bit.

And so I left Oregon and moved to Ohio.

And actually, that's where I, I met the Lord in Ohio and turned

my life over to him. And, and then I, I went down to

Florida for a while, a couple months working on a farm and

wasn't quite ready to come back home to Oregon.

So I, I, I moved to Pennsylvania, got a job working

at a, a church camp over there at just South of Lancaster, PA.

So that's where, how I ended up in Pennsylvania in 1985.

And then I was like, I kind of like it after I got done with

the summer job, you know, maybe I'll get a job and stick around

for six months or so. So that's how I started.

I was looking for a job and went to the local lumber yard and

they offered me a job. I could drive forklift for 5

bucks an hour. And then I went to another place

and they did plumbing. HVAC and electrical and they

offered me a job for 5 bucks an hour and.

And then they said. Well, what do you want to do?

You want to be a plumber or you want to be an HVAC guy or you

want to be an electrician. I said, well, I don't know what

you know, what do you need? And they said, well, we kind of

need electrician. You want to try that?

And I said sure. So I started, that's how I

started as an electrician in 1985, so.

I worked at a company called Haller Enterprises and Rick

Haller gave me a job and a good opportunity and I, I appreciate

what he gave to me in that opportunity.

In Pennsylvania, there was no licensing like Oregon.

And so you could just work hard and work your way up and, you

know, if you could learn to trade in a reasonable amount of

time, you could get your own van and be on the road.

So that's what I did and worked hard.

And about six months or so after I started working there, I'd

learned how to wire a house. And they gave me a van and I got

out on the road and so I had my own van working for Haller

Enterprises and. Did that for about 3 years and

then Rick gave me the opportunity to come in the

office and help manage and schedule and do that.

So that's kind of how I move my way up into the electrical

trade. And they got opportunities to do

estimating and running schedules and did that for another three

years. So I worked for, for Rick Haller

for like 6 years. So in 1991, my buddy Glenn

Weaver was working there as well.

And him and I started talking about the possibilities of maybe

starting our own shop. He was a plumber, I was

electrician. We were good friends.

In fact, I had lived with him and his wife Kay for a while

when I was just looking for a place to live when I was in

Pennsylvania. So we, we good buddies went way

back and, you know, known him for several years at that point

in time. So we, we start talking about

it. And then at one point I just, I

said to Glenn, I said, I'm doing this.

If you want to come, you need to decide if you want to do it or

not. And he's like, well, I didn't

know we were quite that serious. I'm like, well, I'm, I'm doing

it. I'm, I'm, I'm going to start my

own business. And he came back and said, Yep,

let's do it. Best choice we ever made we so

we started a company called Lanko from Lancaster County was

the name and Lanko Mechanicals because we didn't want to

pigeonhole ourselves into one you know if we wanted to start

an HVAC company or something we didn't want to be like Lanko

plumbing and. Electrical, we wanted to be

mechanical. So that's kind of why we decided

on that name. And yeah, the two of us started

out, just went out and bought a van.

And kind of a funny story because Glenn, when we bought

the van, Glenn took it home. We were all.

Proud, we had a new van and he backed the van out of his

driveway and ran into his Haller Enterprise's pickup truck that

he still had in the driveway. Before like 2 days before we

quit. At Haller's and yeah, so that

was unfortunate, but at least it was Glenn and not me.

But yeah, it was a funny. Story with part of starting.

Out is it's a little rough. We didn't have a lot of money,

borrowed some money from our, you know, private people.

And Chris is my wife's dad. My father-in-law loaned us some

money to get started. And yeah, it was kind of just a

jump. Here we go.

Oh man, Was there a particular incident or drive that kind of

drove you to go all in or? Yeah, I don't know.

Rick had hired some new people, new management.

He's changing his management

the atmosphere and the format. Of what was going to happen at

Howlers. When we went from working

directly for Rick for to working for Rick's right hand man.

So we weren't like. Originally we were kind of like

second in command, almost like, you know what I mean?

We were partners and in that we were his management team.

And I wasn't a big fan. And I decided, well, I I'll go

be my own manager, I guess. So that's kind of how that

happened. OK, Yeah.

Were there any hard feelings when you left to start your own

shop? It was a little rough because I

mean, Rick had given us the opportunity and we'd worked

there for a long time. Rick or Glenn had worked there

longer than me. In fact, I think Glenn was kind

of the first guy that Rick hired as far as plumbing manager.

So it was a, it was, it was not an easy transition in that

regard, but it was one of those things that we just felt we

needed to do for our families. And, but again, I, I, I give a

shout out to Rick. He was a a good boss and yeah,

you know, looking back on it, I I wish it could have ended a

little differently just because of that whole dynamic of, you

know, if your your two top. Guys are leaving and all at

once, you know. So yeah, I'm sure that was some

hard decisions for him to try to fill the shoes and and keep

things rolling. But I mean, he's built a.

An empire out of Haller Enterprises from when we left.

Yeah, he's done well. Good.

Good. So it's just you and Glenn, you

have 1 van doing electrical and plumbing.

I mean what did those early days look like?

How do you start with two guys in a van and and build the

thriving company that's there today?

Well, so to be honest with you, I mean a lot of the the company

that is today of Lanco Mechanicals happened.

After I left and moved and sold my half to Glenn.

When we started out, we were, we worked together for about 5

years from 91 to 96 and we just worked hard.

I mean, we worked. I mean Glenn was probably a more

of a hard worker than I was, to be honest, in that, you know,

he, we worked Saturdays and we were working all the time and

we'd get home. Like after dark sometimes and.

Or we'd come home and have dinner and.

Go back out and work some more because we had to get the jobs

done for the next day. Being a small business owner,

especially like 2 guys or whatever and you've got

deadlines. You got to do it.

You got to make it happen. You got SO and Glenn.

Used to always tell me. Well, you know the Lord.

Rested on the 7th day, not the 6th day.

So we're working on Saturday. I'm like, ah, come on man.

I got a boat. I want to go out on the river,

right. But no, we we made a good team

and his kids would come out and help clean up the job sites and

things like that. Got a lot of good memories of

working together with Glenn. Yeah.

Can you tell us a little bit about the the decision to sell

that business and move and you'd started that company from

scratch with one of your best friends.

I imagine that was a hard transition.

Yeah, so, so when I moved to Pennsylvania, I I never really

intended to to live there the rest of my life.

I always kind of wanted to come home back to Oregon.

And even I don't, I don't regret the move, but there was a lot of

times that I questioned whether it was the right move because

number one, we went from having a successful business and making

a fair amount of money to moving to Oregon and being one of the

workers out on the field again and having no say in the company

and having just basically going to working for someone again.

It was a little rough. It was just psychologically and

what not just kind of starting over I would say in a way.

And, you know, Glenn, I'd go back to visit and Glenn would be

talking about the success of the company and how, you know, they

were growing and, and things were happening.

And we'd have conversations about, oh, well, maybe if I came

back, what it would it look like?

And we, we, you know, we did have those conversations.

And. For a while it was, yeah.

The doors open. You know you could.

Always come back and we could always have a spot for you in

like a, you know, buy back in or whatever that might have looked

like. But ultimately, I think in my

heart I knew that was not going to happen.

But I I talked to Glenn. Glenn passed away in in 2020

from. COVID, but before.

He passed away. He him and I talked and he said

we were kind of taking bets that you'd come back.

We thought we thought you'd come back, but.

Ultimately, we stuck it out and we stayed here in Oregon.

And it's worked out so. Good.

And so now at at the current time anyway, no regrets making

that decision. No, I mean, I, I still kind of

go in my head sometimes, you know, what if, what if you would

have stayed? What would that look like?

What would my, what would my life look like?

What would my kids lives look like?

But you know, I think the good Lord just has a plan for you,

and sometimes you don't always know the plan.

Sometimes you just got to put a foot in front of the other one

and go down the. Path.

And when you get to the end of the journey, you know you look

back and go. That was the journey you had for

me, you know, and. I know some people, they have

this lifelong dream and everything's going to be about

what's the next step Or, you know, I've always kind of lived

my life just following, following.

The path that that's in front of me, yeah.

So it's worked for me, yeah, yeah.

So that brings us back to Oregon.

Yeah, I think getting a lot closer to nice Electric.

Is that where you came to work when you moved back?

Yeah. So when I, when we moved to

Oregon, I mean, I had no job. I had to, I studied like crazy

in Pennsylvania because you had to pass, Not when you're coming

to Oregon. You have all your journeyman

licensing and everything like that.

And I had to document all my work hours, even though I had a

business and I've been in the trade for six years.

You know, I couldn't just come here and say, hey, I'm

electrician, you know? But I, I had to document my

hours that I had studied, I had went to night school in

Pennsylvania as well. And that helped.

But then also, I mean, we just when I got here at that time, I

had two kids and a wife and house payments and all the

things and I couldn't come and not have a job, right?

So I came. Prepared.

And as soon as I got here, I went and sat for the journeyman

test. Within a week or two, I had set

it up and I had gotten practice tests and things like that from

the state of Oregon before I ever got here.

So I spent days studying before I got here.

So I when I I couldn't, I didn't want to fail the test and have

to, you know, wait another month before I can go to work.

So yeah, I studied hard and got here and passed the test on the

first try. And I was very excited and.

So, yeah, that's kind of how we started.

And then I, you know, I started doing some job interviews, but

the most promising one was talking to Gary Nice, my

brother-in-law. But we were both a little

nervous about, you know, working together because we're related.

And Gary voiced those opinions that he was concerned that, you

know, how's this going to look? Because him and I got along.

Great. And ultimately we decided to

give it a try and I started working for him and I think is

the beginning of August and we had.

Moved here at the beginning of July.

OK. Have or I guess do you know,

have those rules and regulations changed much?

Is has Pennsylvania adopted licensure for electricians?

I think you, I mean, you do have to have some for like the

cities, which I did I it was sort of like that.

I don't think they've changed a whole lot.

Oregon hasn't changed much. It's still tough to, not only do

you have to have a journeyman license, but if you want to sign

permits or you know they have what they call plan reviews,

where they send you plans and you have to figure out the

server size and things like that, you have to have a

supervisor. 'S license to do that and it's

basically like signing off on an engineering on plans.

When you put your signature as a supervisor on the electrical

part, it's stamped as approved basically.

So you have to be a journeyman, well apprentice for four years,

then a journeyman working under a supervisor for four years.

So that's eight years in, then you can sit.

For the test as a supervisor and it's not an easy test, but takes

a lot of lot of studying and and unfortunately I think it's a it

does sometimes it does guys a disservice.

Because they're very smart, they do a great job, they know the

trade, they can do the work, they just can't take the test.

I've I've seen several really good tradesmen.

That couldn't take the test and they just weren't allowed to do

the job. It's unfortunate.

That is, yeah. I think a lot of the people that

wind up in the trades are very smart, talented people that just

don't like the school environment and maybe don't

necessarily test very well. They like working with their

hands. They like getting dirty and

doing stuff. And in order to do that in the

electrical world, do you still have to go back to school?

Yeah, well, I mean looking back on it, when I started in the

trade, one of Blanco Mechanicals top guys, he struggled with

dyslexia, right? So he really had a hard time

just spelling the words. They were always coming out

backwards. When he started working with me,

I. Said.

You're going to need to learn these words so that you can at

least label the. Panel.

You know, and, and he did. He went home and he studied and

he could do it and he could do the job really well.

In fact, like I said. He's one of the top tradesmen as

far as service work and whatever problem solving, you know, hard

worker, providing for his family, doing a great job.

But if he came to Oregon, they would never allow him to be an

electrician. That's just parts of that just

don't seem right to me. Yeah.

So I know you went to college for a while and did the job of

an electrician and then sat for all the tests.

Which was more difficult, the college education or the

electrical education? Well, I went to college because

I was. Going to be a pilot and I was a

pilot. In fact, I.

That was another job. One of my first jobs was washing

airplanes and mowing the lawn around the around the airport.

But yeah, college, some of the tests that you had to take, you

know, like your instrument ratings and your commercial

ratings for flying, they were tough.

I think that the trades. I don't know.

They're probably similar, similar in some of those

regards. They weren't easy and you had to

study. At least I did.

I wasn't smart enough to just sit there and take the task,

right? I'm not that smart.

Unless you're going to be a doctor, there's not many other

trades that take eight years of education.

Yeah, either exactly, exactly. So I mean, there's that and some

of the training is good, but I I do get disappointed sometimes.

And guys that have been in the trade for four years and if

they're not going to a shop that's actually training them,

which we really try hard to do here at Nice Electric and we

want, I tell my guys, any apprentice that I hire, my goal

is to make them the best electrician that I can.

I don't want them just digging the ditch or.

Pulling, you know, wire when the journeyman doesn't want to do

something. I want the journeyman to

actually teach them how to work. And do the job that's important.

And unfortunately, I think the state of Oregon, with the way

it's set up, it's intended to give them a well-rounded

education. But it doesn't always succeed,

Yeah. So you and Gary sat down, talked

about some difficulties if you come into work for him, being

related, being friends, getting along well.

What did that look like? How did things go with the other

guys when you started? Well, I'll be honest, it was a

little rough. Because I went from being the

boss to being the grunt, the low man on the totem pole.

And also I was related to the boss and the culture at Nice

Electric at the time didn't. Do me any favors.

I would say it that way. I had to work hard to.

Earn the respect. Of the guys you know, I wasn't.

The narc coming in to. Work for Gary and keep an eye on

them. You know that type of thing.

But yeah, it over time, some of the people that were here at

that time left, some of them are still here and great.

Workers. Great.

Guys. It took a lot of years of

working together and learning to trust each other, but yeah, it's

worked out. But it was a little rough.

At first, for sure, yeah. At what point did you think you

would end up taking over Nice Electric?

Well, when I started, I was like, there's one thing for

sure, I'm not taking over Nice electric.

I don't need that headache. I saw what Gary was going

through trying to run a bigger shop, but at one point in time

Gary got. Had.

I had told Gary. I said a year from now I'm going

to be doing something different. I think I had learned from

leaving Recaller and the way that went, but I did not intend

to be out in the field. The rest of my life.

I just told Gary. I said I don't know what that

looks like, but I'm just telling you.

If you want to have an opportunity to keep me here, I'm

going to be doing something different in a year from now,

whether that's working in the office or whatever.

I don't intend to just be a journeyman working out in the

field. So we talked a little bit, and

then he came back to me with an offer to come in and run the

office as far as running schedules, helping estimating,

you know, returning phone calls, that type of thing.

So that's kind of where it started.

But then Gary got real sick. Gary got cancer.

And. Went through a real.

Tough time fact. He got it two times that he had

to have treatment and the second one we all knew he knew that he

may not be coming back. You know, 'cause that's not an

easy. Treatment, and it's not.

A. 100% that you're going to come home but so I here at the

shop the. Office manager at that time and

myself. Stepped up to the plate, ran the

business while he was out. For a few months.

And so, yeah, at what point did I know that I was going to?

I think Gary started having conversations with his boys.

He has three boys. And Trevor had moved to Indiana.

Quinton was pursuing a different career as a nurse and Justin

wasn't real interested in running the business.

He had seen how hard it was on his dad, I think, and he wanted

to be able to be home with his family more than what he could

with being in business. So having said that, you know,

Gary and I started talking and he started making me an offer

that I could if I wanted to buy in.

And having managed it at that point in time, I was kind of in

the game. So it seemed like the natural

next step. So yeah, that's kind of what

started the process. And so you said when you first

started here running nice electric was the last thing you

wanted to do was was nice larger than Lanko at that point in

time? At that point in time, they were

probably pretty similar in size. Yeah.

Alanko has since grown quite dramatically.

I I don't know how many guys you know.

Philip and Pat and Ryan are running right now, but I I'm

thinking they're up around 45 the last I'd heard.

But it might be more than that, I'm not sure.

But they've been very successful and and done a great job.

But yeah, it was similar to in size to what Lanko was at that

point in time. But my thoughts?

Were to start something more. From the ground up, you know, go

home, put the tools back on, start my own shop, maybe have a

couple guys, but. Ultimately it's it's been a good

decision. Yeah, yeah.

You're you're glad that you took over an established business

instead of starting over from scratch.

There's definitely benefits to it.

Definitely benefits to it. You know, the the building's

built. You're not trying to go out and

build a new building or figure out where you're going to put

your shop. You know, it's a lot of the

tools, you can buy them from the previous owner as opposed to

having to outfit everything. So there's definitely advantages

to that. And with Nice Electric, Howard,

Nice having started the company in 1946 and then passing it on

to Gary. Gary started working for him in

the 70s, early 70s. I married my sister mid 70s and

started helping his dad run the business.

And then his dad stuck around till he's like 82 years old, so

he didn't retire right away, but for a long time towards the end,

he was basically working for Gary or helping Gary run the

business. So yeah.

Was Howard still around when you started?

Yeah, yeah. I worked for Howard and Gary

both and basically when I started coming into the office,

it wasn't. Long after that, that Howard

stepped down, retired and yeah, yeah.

And what did that buyout process look like?

How long did those conversations go on for, or how long did that

take? Well, we we had a financial

advisor, Corrigan Whitman in town here.

Mark Whitman had our four O 1K and he was starting in the

process of helping people. He was his dream was to help

family businesses transition. And so we were kind of his

Guinea pig and we were the first ones that he really helped the

whole way through the process. And so, yeah, we would meet with

Mark and talk about, you know, opportunities or challenges or,

you know, do we do the whole thing or do 25 percent, 50%.

So we ended up settling. On a 25% buyout.

And so that was the Phase 1. So yeah, I mortgaged my house.

I had my house paid off at that point in time.

But took out a mortgage on my house so it was a little spooky.

Yeah, but that was kind of the start of buying in and taking

risks again at that time. I'm like, come on.

But you know, I, I, I tell my wife.

Maybe I should just go be a ditch.

Digger. Maybe that's what I should do.

And she's like, well, if you did, pretty soon you'd want to

be the supervisor of the ditch diggers, and then pretty soon

you'd go buy a ditch digging business because that's just who

you are. And I think that's probably

true. I just, yeah, couldn't let it

go. That had to be a little bit

nerve wracking. You go from a a paid off house

and a pretty stable life to, yeah, putting it all on the line

a second time. Yeah.

And then by then we had four kids.

And, you know, we, we again, I was always kind of a penny

pincher, you know, we drove cars.

That were second hand cars for sure.

We have. They always worked, but you know

they weren't pretty. And yeah, I was.

Just it was, it was a big deal, honestly to.

Start over again. But yeah.

What has been the most difficult step in that process of taking

over Nice Electric? We first started it was one of

the things we decided to try to do was build a low voltage.

Division. It was a challenge, to say the

least. It took longer.

It made sense to to me and to Gary at the time we talked about

it that it seemed like a built in clientele because a lot of

people would, you know, hey, you're building a house, do you

want a security system or do you want a sound system or you know,

do you need access control, all those things.

So it seemed like a just a built in business, but that really had

some challenges to it getting it off the ground and getting

people to realize that we had that to offer.

Because we never did before. So there was that.

But, you know, there was a couple times I thought about

quitting it. I really did.

But we've stuck with it. And now my son Dalton is running

that department. And, you know, this year he's

just killing it. So we're hoping it continues.

And it's actually starting after, you know. 810 years here,

whatever it's been that we've been doing that, that it's

actually making the company some money.

So that's the goal, right? That's a long term investment.

Yeah, for real. Yeah, Yeah.

At what point were you most afraid in that transition?

Well, initially I mean. There's there's a lot of salary

that you, you're responsible for your families, you know, got, I

count how many cars are in the parking lot and I go, yeah, I'm

responsible for everyone. Not only those people that drive

those cars, but their wives, their kids.

It that was the scariest part and just being responsible for

others livelihoods. And I can remember thinking,

when am I going to get? Used to this.

Because it took a few years of just.

Stress and yeah. You can feel it in your

shoulders, right? But no, it that was, that was a

lot of stress at at first. I would say the first two or

three years at least until I got used to OK, the cash flows

going. We're going to be OK and we're

going to be able to keep this ball rolling.

OK, what is a lesson you wish you would have learned earlier?

Yeah, I thought about that one. I, I don't know.

I I think that possibly just sometimes I wonder if I'm too

patient when it comes to employees.

There was a few employees that I wish I would have had them move

on sooner than I did. You know, I, I usually.

Think, oh, it's going to work out, it'll be fine.

It'll it's there, you know, But there is a there was a few times

that I should have parted. Ways with people.

Before I did, I would say that you know.

I think that's something that's difficult for every business

leader is, yeah, it's pretty evident you really care about

your people and and you want what's best for them.

And I think sometimes we tend to care more about them than they

care about their self themselves.

I I guess that could be true. I just think that, yeah, there

there was just always sometimes a challenge that you think it's

going to be a fit. You can't figure.

Out why it's not a fit, but it's just not a fit and you just

gotta sometimes you just for me, I just like, OK, admit to

yourself that is not a fit and move on.

Is there something that you've changed your opinion about

throughout the process? A viewpoint that you held pretty

firmly at one point in time and have changed your mind on.

Yeah, I, when I first started in Nice electric, I thought, OK,

we're just going to, we're just one big happy team.

You know, I wanted it to be more of a team feeling and whatnot.

I still value those thoughts as far as guys buying into being

here and when. And I think we've proven over

the years that they do by the longevity of the employees that

we have. But it's not exactly like a team

in that you still need a leader and you still need somebody.

To say, this is how it's going to go.

We can't all have a vote. You know, somebody's got to say

this is how it's got to be done. And so that's that's one thing I

learned. I had this, you know, warm fuzzy

feeling that, oh, it's just going to be a team and we're all

just going to be buddies. And yeah, sometimes you got to

be the boss and sometimes, yeah, you got to, you got to just say

how it's going to be and move on.

I think that's good advice for a lot of young leaders.

Yeah, had a similar experience and have heard that from a lot

of my middle managers as well. As they start out dreaming of

the day that they have a team where everybody just works

together. They all just show up and do

what they're supposed to do the way they're supposed to do it,

and it never happens. Somebody's got to provide some

direction. Yeah, it doesn't, you know, even

though, I mean, I guess it doesn't really matter what

you're doing. Somebody's got to make a choice.

You know, how many times have you been going to go out to eat?

And everybody's like, well, I don't care, I don't care, I

don't care. Somebody's got to make the

decision. And we got to move on.

What is a major mistake that you wish you could have avoided?

I I think going back to that, who's on your team?

You think you've got the right people in place and when you.

Realize you don't have the right people in place.

You're doing people. A disservice by keeping on, just

hoping that it's going to work. I have learned even with some of

the apprentices over time at you know, I don't like, I like to

give them a chance, you know? Guys don't know what they don't

know, and when you're starting out in a trade, there's so much

you don't know, but at some point you got to go.

I don't think this is going to be.

Your job I don't. Maybe, maybe somewhere else,

maybe they can teach you better, but for me, for nice electric,

I'm doing them a disservice by just continually hoping.

Oh, they'll get it. They'll get it.

They'll get it. And, you know, you're three

years in and they're not getting it.

And they wasted three years of their lives when they should

have been going back to school and being an accountant, you

know, So I think you do. Yeah.

That's. That's a mistake.

That I've made I think over the years, not being quick enough to

say hey. Is this really for you?

Yeah. That's some really good advice

for young leaders, I think is I've made that same mistake a

lot. You think you're doing them a

favor, giving them a chance, but there's a point where they're

just not going to get it or they're not the right fit.

Yeah. So have you ever made a

beneficial mistake, Something that was a mistake at the time,

but in the long run maybe turned out to be a win or taught you a

valuable lesson? Well, I guess I mean, I don't

know if it's really a mistake, but moving to Oregon was a

choice. And there was lots of times when

I thought that oh man, did I make the right choice.

I mean, all my friends are still in Pennsylvania and I'm

struggling working here at Nice Electric with guys that don't

respect me and what, what's that going to look like?

But in the end, it's turned out to be a good move.

I, I I had an. Apprentice years ago when I

started here he goes. Why do you work so hard?

Why are you? Always, you know, working all,

you know, trying to, I don't know if you'd say outdo

everybody, but you know, trying to prove yourself.

Why are you working so hard? I said because when they close

the doors I want to be the last. Guy they can get rid of, I want

them to not be able to afford to get rid of me.

That's why I work the way I do. It's been kind of my motto and

here I am. I guess I'm the last man

standing. I know going back a little bit,

you mentioned it was a difficult process, kind of earning the

respect to the guys that were already here when you started.

What was it that turned that corner?

How did you go about earning their respect?

Well, one of the league guys that was working here at the

time ended up getting fired from here, which.

Shocked me because I didn't know there was any problems.

Turns out there were some problems that I didn't know

about because I wasn't in the office.

Him leaving and then just over time proving myself, just being

here, being steady and being, being the last man standing.

And, you know, I think I like to think that my guys all would say

that I've earned their respect. That's that would be what I hope

they would say, yeah. If you could go back and start

all over, would you choose to do it again?

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I know Gary when he

retired, he, you know, he's like, I don't think I'd do it

again. It was too much, right.

And I think there's definitely been days that I.

Wish I wouldn't have been doing this, but I, I know what would

have happened if I didn't do it here.

I'd do it somewhere else because that's just kind of my drive.

And like I said, I'd be a ditch digger and then I'd own the

ditch digging company because I, I just, I don't know how else to

do it. But yeah, I know it's been

great. Good.

What has been your biggest win as a leader?

My biggest win right now is the crew that I have, honestly, I

have my son Dalton, and it's I'm privileged to have him work with

him, with me here in the office, and he's just killing it and

doing a great job. Jason Gephardt works.

For us and awesome decision by me, you know, I'll take the

credit cuz but he's an excellent.

Co worker. You know, I, I can't say enough

about the hard work that those two guys do.

And, you know, we've made some moves in the office and Glenda's

is our bookkeeper. And she's doing a good.

Job, I mean always, there's always challenges when you're

working with people. But overall, the team that I've

assembled, I look back at the team that I had when I started.

To the team. That I have now.

It's like night and day. It's amazing.

It's, it's great. And I mean part of it, I think

it's just the blessing of the good Lord just looking out for

me because I say it's me, but it really isn't.

It's you know, it's obviously it's decisions that I've made.

But I jokingly say that because, you know, it is my company.

But at the same time, these guys and and Glenda and and even all

my all my journeymen that I have.

The. Team around us that.

Does everybody just love being here?

I wouldn't say that because it's a job, right, But I've had

several of them say it's the best job I ever had.

So that says something, I think, Right.

I'll take that as a win, yeah. Yeah, that's great.

What has been your best resource to grow?

Yeah, other people. Other people.

I mean, I I I learned so much over the years working with

Gary. He was just a gentle soul.

Still is. Great guy, you know, he just, I

don't know. Anybody that has anything bad to

say about Gary? He just, you know, he's my

brother-in-law, but he's also one of my really good friends.

So, you know, hanging out with him over the years.

So I would say the same. Thing and working with Glenn

I've had. Two partnerships, people say

don't be a partner. I've had two of them and they

both were excellent decisions. I've been very blessed that way.

But just hanging out with other good.

People. And just learning from them, you

know, whether that's, you know, used my son-in-law or and my

sons, yeah, they're just learning from other people.

It's mostly how I I'm not a big reader.

My wife is. She reads a lot, but I usually

fall asleep when I read, so I can't read.

But but mostly just learning from others, yeah.

And yeah, I've kind of always sat on the other side of that.

I've not been a big fan of partnerships.

What do you think have been the secrets to being successful in

the partnerships you've had? Well.

I I I guess. Part part of for me, part of it

was just being a little bit anal about.

Being fair and honest and. You know, 'cause when I, when we

had our partnership, Gary and I, we had our personal gas money

and our business gas. And if I used the truck to go to

the beach for the evening with my wife, I would keep track of

my mileage and I would put that much gas in the truck.

You know, I just was trying to be very fair and then just

making sure that the other person is being respected.

And I don't know. Exactly what it was about both

of those partnerships. I think part of it, both of us

both were not only either relatives, but we're good

friends. I also think like with Gary, we

didn't do a lot. Outside of the business we work.

Together, we saw each other at Thanksgiving or whatever for

family gatherings, but we didn't go to the beach together.

Our families didn't do stuff together.

So I think having some separation but yet respect and

that was a big one too, respecting each other and our

different. Spots.

Yeah. I'm not sure exactly what's the

magic was. But it worked.

Twice, so I'll take it. It sounds like you picked the

right people both times that had that mutual respect and

fairness. Yeah, I think that's true.

And I and I also think that the, you know, just your faith we

both had came from the same. Kind of background.

Say what you will about growing up, you know Mennonite or or you

know. That.

We both kind of knew the. Mindset of that and it's.

It's, it's a different mindset. It's hard working and it's a

faith and honesty and all the things that you know.

If you can't trust your partner in business, it's not like

being, it's not exactly like being married.

But it is. Kinda.

It is kinda. And you got to respect each

other, and you got to trust each other, and you got to

communicate. Well, I guess it is like a

marriage, yeah. So yeah, it it, it fortunately

worked out two times for me, so yeah.

What motivates you to keep pushing when things get hard?

Well, you know, somebody's got to do it, somebody's got to do

it. And if you don't show up and do

it when you're the boss or you're the owner, who's going to

do it, right? So there's kind of that you just

got to, I jokingly say to my wife quite often, well, it's

time to go. You know, after we've had coffee

around the table in the morning or whatever and it's time to go

to work. I'm like, well, it's time to go

conquer the world. Here we go.

You know, that's kind of my attitude.

It's just got to go out there, give it your best shot and you

know, you got things to deal with, let's go deal with them.

And when we're done dealing with those, then we can move on

whether they're hard or easy or whatever.

Just can do attitude and never give up.

Don't. Stop.

Yeah, yeah. Comes back to, I think one of

those things you and all your siblings share in common is you

don't shy away from hard things. You go right into it.

Yeah, Yeah, I guess that's true, yeah.

All right. Well, this is my favorite

question we ask everybody. We've shared that you're a

follower of Jesus. So how has that shaped your

business journey or your leadership journey?

Well, I think a large percentage is, is how I want my guys to be

treated. I always say when I'm

interviewing someone that I want to be treated like I treat you

and I intend to treat you with respect, with integrity.

So whether that's with a customer or with my employees.

I also think that just having a positive attitude for and a

smile on your face sometimes showing at somewhat showing they

enjoy having you around over the years.

I think I've gotten better at that.

There was a few times in my journey that I was under the gun

so much I didn't really enjoy the process.

But you know, a part part of sharing, you know, the love of

Jesus is just showing people that that you care.

And even showing up to a customer and saying isn't it a

great day today isn't awesome. And they're like, I guess so,

you know, but you know, just a positive attitude and trying to

cheer somebody's day. I think it's important and

treating people with. Respect is very.

Important, very important. But yeah, that's, I would say

those are the biggest things that it's affected.

Yeah. So what's what's coming up next?

Well, the next turn out of the corner, I just, I just turned

62, you know, starting to think about transitioning.

You know, they, they say that the cemetery is full of a lot of

people that thought they were indispensable, you know, and so

nobody's going to live forever and nobody's going to nobody

can't be replaced. And So what does that look like?

You know, trying to set up things again that set up Nice

electric for success and my family for success.

So yeah, we're working on those things.

I mean, obviously on a personal level, having wills and trusts

in place and things like that, plans made, what do you want to?

Have happen in the next journeys of life, so people know

communicating with your family and things like that, it's very

important. Yeah, you mentioned.

Yeah. What?

What's best for Nice Electric to keep coming?

It just occurred to me, do you feel any weight running a

business that was established in the 40s and being responsible

for that legacy? Yeah, a little bit.

Little bit. Yeah, actually quite a bit.

I got a text from my brother-in-law just the other

day. And he talked about how he

valued. Working.

With me and how he was, he used the word proud but happy.

With the way. That I successfully ran the

business and he said that he thought his dad would be proud

too and I wow, that's a big deal.

That's a big deal to me, you know, because they put, I know

Howard for years, put in a lot of time and.

With little reward. You know, almost losing the

company or having to be on payments with suppliers and

things like that because times were tough and he went through a

few patches of that, but ultimately.

He built a reputable. Name a well known in the

community and so yeah, I I hope I have I've done a a decent job

keeping that name and the reputation nice electric going

yeah, but yeah, you're right. It's that's, that's a thing,

yeah. 80 years of history, that's a lot in this community.

Is there anybody that you'd like to see on the show, Somebody

that has an interesting story, an interesting business, or

maybe works in a really unique industry that would be fun to

learn about? Yeah, well, we talked about a

little bit before we got on here, but you know, Ben Van

Dyke. Ben, I think you ought to do it.

I'd like to hear your story. So I know he's busy man, and he

kind of sits behind the scenes he's.

Kind of a behind the scenes kind of guy, but I.

Over the years I've really learned to respect.

Ben and you know, his family and his values.

Yeah, I think he would be fun to listen to for an hour or so,

yeah. I agree.

All right. Our last question to either fuel

or settle the debate, if you have to pick a cordless tool

brand, which one do you prefer? Yeah, we're, we're a Milwaukee

around here. Yeah.

We've went through several different brands and phases and

thoughts and processes. But you know, when I started in

the trade there, there were no cordless drills and so and then

I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but there was a

screwdriver called the Yankee. It was a like a ratchet you'd.

Push on it and they would turn the turn.

Yeah, SAP. For years I had one of those and

we thought we were the cat's meow.

Because we had a Yankee screwdriver to, you know, to put

the plugs in the wall. And then when I moved here, I

still had my Yankee screwdriver in 1991 when we moved here, or

96 anyways. And so the people were like, oh,

you got to try the cordless. I'm like, no, it's, I'm just as

fast. Well, those days are gone.

But yeah, they they've totally changed the industry, that's for

sure. Yeah, well, I think with that,

Milwaukee might be edging out DeWalt again.

They took an early lead and DeWalt caught up and and now

they might be edging us out again.

Well, thank you so much for taking the time and joining me

here. It's been fun and I got to learn

a little bit and hopefully our listeners did as well.

And thank you guys for joining us here on From the Ground Up

Show. Again, don't forget to like,

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So again, thank you. And until next time, keep

grinding.