Mike Riddle – Losing it All and Building it Back

the market just tanked, absolutely just tanked.

I had a client that just was was very unreasonable ended up suing me and I just I ran out of money and there was no jobs like I couldn't build a doghouse for anybody The advice of

counsel I had to shut my business down and file for bankruptcy

I love what I do.

I feel like

is who I was called to be and frankly it's really it's not necessarily building although that's that's how it's manifesting itself now it's it's just being the the type of person

that I was called to be and it just happens to be in this particular industry

Hey there and welcome to From the Ground Up Show, the show where we inspire and encourage free-thinking leaders by telling the stories of those that have been there, done that, and

are still getting it done.

People who have built a life that they love with their hands, their heart, and their hustle.

I'm your host, Eric Loden, and today I am joined by Mike Riddle.

Mike is a fellow graduate of Linfield College.

Go Wildcats!

He began his career as an elementary school teacher and now owns and runs Riddle Construction, a custom home building company.

Mike is a husband and a father.

So welcome Mike.

Thank you for joining us on the show.

Thank you, sir.

Happy to be here.

Great.

Well, we like to start off every show just getting to know you a little bit.

And so we start clear at the beginning.

Can you tell us a little bit about where you grew up, how you grew up, what was your childhood like?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So I grew up in Salem.

We lived out in the country and attended North Salem High School, uh graduated from high school in 1993.

I played football and baseball there and had the opportunity to continue my sports career into college.

And so I had, uh I really had kind of two choices to go to school because my

major was going to be athletic training and only two schools in Oregon at the time, Oregon State and Linfield.

And I wasn't good enough to play baseball or football uh at Oregon State.

So Linfield was my easy choice.

uh So started there in 93 and graduated in 97 with a degree in athletic training and as well as all of my teaching credentials.

So as you mentioned before, I became an elementary school teacher.

I taught elementary PE.

I did that for seven years.

And then I coached baseball at McMinnville High School, as well as I was an athletic trainer there, along with another trainer friend.

great years of my life.

I'd still be doing it if I could afford to be a teacher, but had had a great time kind of working with both levels of kids.

You know, you have the young kids in the morning and then the older kids in the afternoon and just really

It was a love of mine to be able to give back to the kids of that community, just like people poured into me when I was younger.

getting started in the construction company was never really part of my goal.

When I graduated from high school, I worked for a custom home builder remodeler every summer and every break and learned how to do foundations and framing and trim carpentry

all hands on, not necessarily all the thinking or

or anything like that, but I learned how to do the work.

And it was either the hottest times of the year or the coldest times of the year.

So it wasn't something that I thought was, I wanna do this the rest of my life, uh but it was good skills.

So when my wife and I decided we wanna have kids, ah she said, hey, I really wanna stay home.

And she was a school teacher as well.

She taught first and second grade.

And I said, okay, ah well, I better find a second job.

So what I decided was, I know how to do physical labor and fix things like that on a home.

And so what I did is I started a company back then.

It was a different name of a company.

And I started with my dad because he was retired.

And he had the startup funds for me and did a flip and did another flip.

But I really wanted to do new construction.

That was my love.

And so I bought a lot, built a house.

think the first house I built was maybe in 2003 or something like that.

I started the company in 2002.

Finally built my first house in 2003.

And here we are, gosh, almost 23 years later, and have a completely different business plan, a different company, different life than I had ever thought was

even possible.

yeah, that's great.

um I can agree with you.

We do not pay our teachers well enough.

I think there's two types of teachers.

There are great teachers that don't get paid nearly well enough, and then there's crummy teachers that get paid too much.

Yeah, yeah, that's probably true in every industry, but uh it is definitely a passion project.

The pay is okay, it's not great.

uh Certainly, you're really not great to build a family upon, but it is doable.

I know, especially there in Oregon, it's rough.

We pay our teachers a little bit better here in Wyoming, and I still don't think it's enough.

what was it that originally led you into teaching?

What got you on that career path to start out with?

I think just the coaches and the teachers that I had in high school really kind of influenced me.

knew I always wanted to be a coach of some sort.

A teacher wasn't necessarily sure that's what I wanted because when I went into college, what I had went in for was effortless training as I had mentioned.

And I soon realized that

the athletic training world in order to make any kind of a reasonable income, you had to kind of do it at the professional level.

So you had to work with a, you know, a Blazers or the Dallas Cowboys or something like that, where you're traveling all the time and, you know, hard to put your roots down and

raise a family.

And I quickly realized, you know, I just, that's not the lifestyle that I was really looking for.

So I really enjoyed being coached and being taught when I was, you know, in high school, maybe I could do that.

So that's when I decided, I think my sophomore year, partway through my sophomore year, decided, well, I'm also gonna get all my teaching credentials alongside of my other

degree.

And so it was

kind of doing two degrees at once, but it gave me the ability to still do the athletic training that I loved and be able to coach and teach.

Okay.

That kind of came apparent to me in college when I realized the lifestyle of being a professional, uh being on the road with a professional team was just not something I

desired.

Yeah, awesome.

Was there a particular teacher or coach that really inspired you really made a difference in your life?

Yeah, uh his name was coach V as in Victor, uh but it stood for Veliutini, a very Italian name.

And coach V was an inspiration to everybody at the high school.

He was the, he was a football coach, but also kind of the weightlifting coach.

And uh

I would say it was probably the summer of my eighth grade year, the head football coach came up to me and said, you know, hey Mike, how much do you weigh?

ah You know, how tall are you?

And he said, Mike, your body is going to really transform if you would get yourself into the weight room and you would just dedicate yourself to getting stronger.

I said, okay, no one ever said that before, but let's do it.

And coach V was the person who was actually in the weight room teaching and he's if you can kind of picture somebody who's super intense but Can can tell you that he loves you

with intensity Unlike anybody else I've ever experienced in my entire life.

He was just he was amazing And I always wanted to emulate the best parts of him.

I would never have the same personality or intensity that he did but they'll be able to take the positive things that he did and and the love that he showed through

discipline and correction and use that in some other form of a career.

So yeah, Coach Valiantini would be my inspiration.

That's great.

I've always imagined maybe someday having a second career of being a part-time teacher or a coach.

I think that would be fun, but I don't know that that's going to be in the cards for me.

So we'll see.

Yeah.

Well, tell me a little bit more about starting your business.

said you really started out with uh a vision to bring your wife home, allow her to stay home with your kids instead of being in the workforce.

So how did that go?

What steps did you take to get your business off the ground?

And what did that look like?

Yeah, well, kind of a long road.

And it was, uh again, there was no roadmap, nobody to say, hey, Mike, you should try it this way.

But when my wife told me that she wanted, that was her dreams to stay home, I was like, okay, how are we gonna figure this out?

um Well, I need about this much money, which frankly at the time was not that much money.

To be able to replace her salary, I didn't need to do too much.

But the concept would be is that I would,

continue to work my full-time job and then I would do side projects if you will throughout the year and I knew that okay well I needed it to make at least her salary back to kind of

keep us to keep us even and so I started the business with my dad as I mentioned it was called R squared properties back then so my last name is Riddle so Riddle and Riddle made

R squared uh

And so what I would do is I would teach all day and then I would drive to whatever job site we were doing.

first job was in McMinnville, second job was in McMinnville.

And then my third job, was my new construction home was in Lincoln city.

So at the time I lived in Perrydale, which is kind of out in the, if anybody who knows where we live, it's, it's kind of out in the middle of nowhere.

Um, and it's like in between kind of Salem and Dallas and, and McMinnville.

And then, so I would drive to Newburgh, which took me about 40 minutes or so I would teach all day.

And then I would drive to Lincoln city, which would take, you know, hour, 15 hour, 20 minutes, whatever I'd work.

till however long I needed to.

I did a lot of self-performing, a lot of the pickup framing and trim carpentry and painting and punch list and hanging stuff.

I'd work till late at night, then I'd drive home and rinse and repeat.

And so did that for a couple of years.

I built and sold that house.

I don't think I made any money, but I actually earned a lot of educational credits on that one.

for sure.

So I probably made like five grand and everybody else made money except for me other than the education that I earned.

Then I bought two more lots and built two more spec homes and at that point I had sold those at kind of the height of the market like 2004, 2005.

And I made more money on those two homes than I did like in five years teaching salary.

And it was just, uh it was a sign like, gosh, I can actually make a career out of this.

I don't have to do both the rest of my life and just, you know, live on five or six hours of sleep forever.

um And so I made the decision that I would switch.

However, I didn't make that decision until June and I had already signed my teaching contract for the next year in March.

And I wanted to honor that, not leave on a bad foot.

uh

So, taught the whole another year and I had some other subdivisions in Dallas and McMinnville where I was building spec homes.

um That went really well.

for several years and then made the transition, made the switch.

The last day of teaching was just heartbreaking for me because the kids just loved me, I loved them.

It was a really tough time because it was that transition in life where you knew you were doing some good things but there was something better that was taking your attention.

So made that switch for a couple years and then the market just tanked, absolutely just tanked.

It's not that I had a whole lot of you know exposure didn't have much of lots or anything but um Did have did have one house and then I had a client that just was was very

unreasonable ended up suing me and I just I ran out of money and there was no jobs like I couldn't build a doghouse for anybody and so uh The advice of counsel I had to shut my

business down and file for bankruptcy

and I lost everything.

I lost two rental houses, we lost our home, we got to keep our cars and my guns, and well I had to...

Got to keep the guns.

we had to pay for our cars to keep the cars and, we lost everything.

We ended up living in rental homes for several years.

I ended up, um, for about three years worked with a group of guys, um, out of Salem.

I was just having breakfast with my friend, Rich Kansky at Green Acres landscaping.

And he said, Hey, we're doing this work with banks where we go in and, know, we cut grass and remove trash and scoop poop out of toilets and pick up drug needles and whatever on

all the

the homes throughout Oregon that the banks are foreclosing on and do you want to do that?

like, well, whatever it takes to feed my family.

So I did that for about three years and worked six, seven days a week and finally had the opportunity in 2011 to restart my business, named it after myself, which I wouldn't do

again.

But anyways, that was the council I received.

I like, just name it after yourself.

That's easy.

Well, it is.

ah

Anyways, had the chance to build a custom home in 2011 for some great people and then just things continued.

You know, honestly, the Lord just continued to bless me with clients like I just couldn't believe it.

So continued to grow from a team of one, which was me, and had another uh person to help me in the office.

And now we have 16 employees and we're covering a decent portion of Oregon territory.

Well, if you had the opportunity to rename your business, have you put any thoughts into something other than uh Mike Riddle construction or Riddle construction?

Yeah, I mean, hindsight's always 20-20.

know, I had, honestly, had no...

I had no dreams or ambitions to create uh a bigger business with this many employees and this much reach.

It was more of just, I just wanted to feed my family.

And so ah I didn't even think about the name as being really all that significant.

But as I, as I get older and I think about transitioned into retirement, which is still a ways away, I'm only 50, but it is something that you start to plan for, you know, 10, 15

years out that uh a more

transferable name or a more benign name that doesn't focus around me would have probably been easier for that transition.

So just recently I had a brand switch from Mike Riddle Construction to just Riddle Construction.

A little less emphasis on Mike and more emphasis on the team and our process.

But you know, I could have come up with something like, know, Heritage or you know, Nike or you know, some other kind of like name that doesn't have a person's name associated

with it.

That would have been pretty cool, but.

I just wasn't thinking that way because it was just like, I need to get business, I need to start working, so this is easy.

Yeah, I own a commercial roofing company and we're called Dave Loden Construction.

My dad named it after himself and we still get calls every day.

People call in and want to talk to Dave.

Like, well, he's been retired for 11 years.

So.

Yeah.

And that's why I changed it to Riddle Construction.

Because at some point, you know, they don't know to call in and talk to Mike.

Right?

Yeah, awesome.

Well, it sounds like things have really blown up and grown in a big way.

You said when you started, you didn't really have a vision or an idea to grow it to the point that it is.

Was there a point where it really just kind of took off and got some legs of its own?

I mean, how has that growth progressed over the last 13 years, 14 years?

Yeah, great question.

It's been very interesting because it's been somewhat steady probably from 2011 until maybe like 2020 or so.

Then COVID hit and which was actually really scary and at first it's like man.

What what's gonna happen?

But but honestly COVID was amazing for the construction industry in a lot of different ways The one way in which it was was beneficial to our business is that we were not only

doing custom homes But we were doing remodels and so people had to live in their homes more than they were used to living in they realized Gosh, this is too small.

We're too cramped or I need a home office now because I have no

to go to.

And so there was lots of opportunities to remodel homes for people because there just was no moving around.

Interest rates were high, there wasn't as much inventory, that's still the case.

Thus remodeling is still great.

But I would say one of the biggest trajectories was about four years ago.

I had the opportunity to work with an architect and a client who I knew, but not super well.

We went to the same church together.

We had kind of mutual friends.

We knew who each other were, but weren't really close.

And when they had met with this architect and wanted to build a beach home oh on the Oregon coast,

the client had said, I want Mike Riddle to at least have a shot at it.

They had already been talking to another contractor and the architect was like, I don't think that's such a great idea.

He's from the Valley.

We should probably look at a coastal builder.

so anyways, they acquiesced and I put together a full presentation of costs and all those things in a binder.

and I met with the architects and the clients and laid out everything.

And in the end, they actually chose the local contractor, even though I had construction experience on the coast, I built three homes there.

uh They just liked his, uh he was more of a seasoned coastal builder and they liked that as a, I don't know, safety blanket.

So I didn't get that job, but the architects were very thankful for the amount of detail that I put in to the estimate and the communication that I had with them during that

process.

And when another job came up on the Oregon coast, they said, hey, we really think you should talk to Mike.

And so I met with those clients and we were able to build them an amazing custom home on the ocean.

And it kind of just launched uh just the coast.

I don't know, division of our company.

I hadn't really planned on going to the coast, but Nesquikwet and Pacific City are like, you know, an hour, hour and 15 minutes away.

So not too far.

and you get reception the whole way.

anyways, and over there, it's pretty interesting because a lot of the subdivisions we were working in were higher end neighborhoods and they're pretty picky.

And if you're able to just like answer the phone, like you're already in, just that the bar was so low with a lot of other people that they had tried to work with that.

sign, I kept my job sites clean, I communicated well with the HOA and so that one person talked to another person, talked to another person and then eventually it just continued

to flourish in that neighborhood as well as the relationship with that architect.

The architect was a coastal architect and so when they received another project they came to me.

When I received another opportunity I took it to them.

So it was just mutual uh feeding each other type of a thing and we're still very close and good friends

today that's Capri architecture and they're a husband and wife team.

They're just amazing to work with.

That's interesting that uh I would not have expected there to be so much difference between kind of the valley and the coast.

Like you said, it's 40 miles apart, but.

ah

and most of the homes that we're building are...

ah

maybe second or third homes.

Occasionally we're building some primary residences for people and they're usually on the larger, more complicated luxury side, which is really fun because every project is unique

and every project is unique at the coast anyways because of topography and soil conditions.

And then of course just the wind and the rain and the salt just corrodes everything.

So there's just different building practices.

And so we've become an expert and I've actually expanded our way up

coast so now we're doing most of the Oregon coast right now and able to serve us a lot of clients up and down the coast.

Wow, that's great.

So in your process of building your business, when was the time that you were most afraid?

Hmm.

That's a great question.

I would say that I was most afraid to lose it.

When I had built up a little bit, what I thought was a successful, it was paying the bills.

My family was able to build ourselves a home.

And I think I was most afraid at the precipice of can you keep this company or not?

And whether or not this was something that I was really meant to continue to do.

Restarting the business was not scary You know in 2011 when I restarted the very beginning I say I think was Definitely scary because I was giving up a very secure teaching job.

I knew where my paycheck was coming from every month I'll be it not very much.

I at least knew that it was it was consistent whereas now The money I was going to be receiving from the construction side was going to be based on

lots of different factors, right?

What kind of project I can do, how quickly I could sell it, how quickly I could get paid.

And so the cash flow game was actually very scary and that's why I held on and was working stupid hours in order to keep that comfort.

So it wasn't as scary because I knew I still had the comfort and then whatever I made on top of that was kind of gravy.

So.

But at the very, at the precipice of losing everything, I'd say was the scariest time.

I know it's kind maybe not exactly answering that question, but that was the scariest part about running a business is like, wait, somebody can like be mad at you and like just take

your whole life away?

I was like, that's, wow, okay.

No one had ever said that before.

Maybe it wouldn't have signed up for that had I known that.

So that was probably the scariest time.

Yeah, that is kind of terrifying when you realize how um fragile some of those ah businesses are and the situation you can get into.

Yeah.

Is there something really unique about your business or your journey in building your business that you think sets you apart from other home builders?

You know, without, you know, trying to sound...

Conceded it it it really is I set up the business.

It was around me.

It was around my personality It was around my work ethic.

It was around my integrity It was around my values and core mission and all of that.

It wasn't necessarily around a team because I didn't have a team and so the ability to communicate with people on a very honest level and Give them the information that they

want with full transparency.

I think

has been something that has set me apart.

I'm certainly not the only builder who's transparent, but the honesty, the transparency, the likeability of my interactions with clients has been, I think, something that has set

me apart.

I feel like I'm very personable and trustworthy.

Give off that that impression and it's it's genuine and true and and most people identify and can kind of smell a rat and It's been it's been very difficult to try to replicate

that on into a scale

And so the creation of systems and procedures of taking all of those things that I just mentioned and teaching my uh teammates to be the same way.

so hiring people that are as close to you as possible, but with other skill sets that maybe you don't have.

Like certainly I can't do everything in the business.

And a lot of my employees are younger and so they're very multiple and shapeable.

uh But

But to start off with, think it has been the willingness to go the distance for the clients and knowing that, giving the sense of security that I have their back and that I'm

gonna do whatever it takes to make it right and to do it right the first time.

But when things don't go well, which...

happens all the time in construction.

You own a roofing company, sometimes things just don't go well.

You're relying on people and people are imperfect.

You're relying on people to not only make the materials that you're using that are imperfect, but you're also relying on people to, imperfect people to install imperfect

materials perfectly.

And that doesn't always work well.

So.

getting clients to fully trust that whatever it takes to make it right, you will do that.

That's not everybody in the industry.

think people might talk that way, but when you actually put your money where your mouth is, that's uh something that I have a uh strong reputation for and will continue to for

the remainder of my involvement in the business anyways.

Yeah, well you kind of stepped into my next question, but I'd like to expand on it a little bit.

I think a lot of construction companies, probably companies in general, but I'm in the construction world.

You know, that initial company launch and building, it is very personality centric.

The owner is the touch point.

You know, the crew runs on their personality, their schedule, their work ethic, all the things that you said.

And so there's often kind of a delay or a transition point in growing through a personality centric business to a systems and a culture business.

So could you speak into maybe the strategy, the approach uh you mentioned, know, hiring people that are similar to you, hiring young people, training them well.

Is there more to that strategy, that approach to help transition from just your personality to a business where the whole culture kind of exemplifies that personality

that you built the business on?

Yeah, it's a great question.

All the things that you mentioned that I mentioned before are certainly true, but I think one of the hardest things is that when you have built something that let's call it your

baby, you've built something that you're so proud of and that you've worked so hard at creating.

You've built it from the ground up and it's super hard to let go of.

So I would say that humility and trust are

Essential to be able to grow and scale ah So in other words having humility to say hey I am NOT the only person in the world who can be good at this and I am also not the only

person who can actually shepherd this process to success and I have to be able to trust but verify that That person who I am working with or a group of people that I'm working

with can

follow the path and still allowing for um some uniqueness that they have, that they bring to the table.

So that trust and transparency is just absolutely vital to do that.

um I tell you, it's been probably one of the biggest struggles of my professional career is being able to trust somebody else and then honestly, pay for the mistakes that other

people make, right?

And so, you know, I kind of grew up where my dad would say, if you want something done right, do it yourself.

And while that is true, most of the time, it's actually not true if you put the right people in place and train them the way that you want them to be and allow them to kind of

grow um and grow without the fear of failure.

So all of my employees have known that if they make a mistake, I'm going to take care of it.

They may have to fix it, but I'm going to pay the bill.

It's not coming out of their paycheck.

And so that makes it makes it.

um

it makes it more safe for them to grow and step out on a limb and say, you know what, I'm going to make this call because I've been trained.

I feel like I know what the right decision is.

So I'm going to make the call.

And if it doesn't go right, I know that that Mike's going to back me up and he's going to help me fix it versus, okay, if I make the call and it's not right, I'm going to get

fired.

And so therefore I might, you know, hold my cards a little closer.

I might not make that call.

I might not grow.

And so that has been a very difficult decision, but an intentional decision to make because it has cost me uh lots and lots of money.

As a business owner, know, it just, people make mistakes and it's costly, but uh it also allows me to get to levels that I would never be able to get to without myself or by

myself.

I have a junior leader in our organization that when he was relatively new with our company, he made kind of a big mistake, was going to what was at the time going to cost us

quite a bit of money.

And he very sheepishly came up to me after he made the mistake to talk about it.

And he goes, am I fired then?

I said, no, you just learned a valuable lesson and you cost me a lot of money.

I need you working here so you can make that money back.

Yeah, yeah, it's a good point.

And he has grown into one of our, like you said, kind of a leader in our company.

And that story has been told across our company to almost everybody that's been hired.

And usually not by me, it's usually the other employees about how we handle mistakes and, you know, making mistakes aren't a good thing, but Eric's going to take care of it and

we're going to, we're going to fix it and move on.

So I think that's a great thing.

it's a culture and it's a choice and there are some companies that just choose not to have that culture and that's okay.

ah But I learned this when I was, uh I learned it growing up.

This is just who I am.

ah My faith teaches me that grace is important.

I've had a lot of.

oh on my life, therefore I need to give grace to other people.

But just a quick story, when I was working on a very large custom home, this was during college when I was working for that builder during the summer, uh I was cutting my very

first blue lamp beam, and it was gonna be a, we hand cut all of our roofs back then, there was no trusses, I there were, but we never used them.

And I cut,

Completely wrong.

It was like gonna be two inches short and you know at the time I thought that glueling BAM glueling beam might have cost 20,000 bucks I have no idea, you know now that I know it was

probably a $500 beam but the as soon as I cut it My boss came up to me and says hey Mike you realize that you did this and now we can't use this anymore I just felt awful, but he

says don't worry.

We'll get a new one It'll be here tomorrow and we'll cut it right and I'll show you how to do it

And that level of grace just right without you idiot or you this or you that just, I don't know, solidified in my heart that that's how I wanted to be.

That was the culture I wanted to instill.

They never cussed at me.

They never said bad words.

They never said, you you idiot.

Of course I made other mistakes.

That wasn't the only one.

that culture is just critical for success.

And actually probably about two weeks ago, I got to talk to that man for the first time in uh decades.

And I told him how important that was to the foundation of my business and the culture that we have.

And he was just so honored and he should have been.

He deserves all the honor for that.

That's great.

I love that.

Yeah, we're all going to make mistakes and we're going to talk about it.

We're going to learn from it, but you pick up the pieces and keep going.

That's right.

Was there anything that significantly delayed the growth of your company?

And if so, how would you have handled it differently?

That's a it's hard to necessarily pick one, you know, most of the time the the lack of growth or the stunting of growth is just due to uh Pride or it's due to a lack of Vision

uh To be honest with you.

I think it's something to where I've always had the Opinion and philosophy that

whatever is going to come my way, I'm going to do the absolute very best I can with and I'm going to

I guess receive the blessing or the opportunity and then do what I can with it versus saying, hey, I'm going to still do that, but I also want to be able to start thinking

about, what would it look like if we did this?

What would it look like if we had that?

And then through, as I mentioned, my faith, then through prayer and listening.

and being being humbled to say not you know not my will but yours I have had the opportunity and the thought process to say well maybe we should have a coastal division

and a valley division maybe we should be doing remodels in both locations uh well that means that I can't stay the same size so in order to to fulfill that opportunity and to

take advantage of those opportunities I was I was forced to scale

and I had felt as if it was yesterday, the pain of not being able to build a dog house for anybody, like I mentioned before, during the Great Recession, just was no construction

work out there, at least not on a huge scale like it had been for so many years.

so saying no was...

Like you just didn't do it.

Like an opportunity came up, you said yes.

And so I've continued to have that same um hungry mentality, hungry for wanting to uh capture opportunities, but also being able to refine that to where not everybody is a

client and not every opportunity is a good opportunity.

And so it went from every opportunity is an opportunity to where it's now every opportunity is worth a look over.

and then we can decide which one's going to be the best ah so that we can say yes to the great.

So we can say no to some good ones, so we can say yes to the great ones.

Great.

So what in your business, what are the primary determining factors between a great customer and uh an opportunity that you need to pass on or a great job?

What do you look for?

What is kind of your niche that makes a great project for you?

Yeah, it really all comes down to relationship.

ah I don't care what the house looks like.

I don't care what your budget is.

It makes no difference to me.

It really matters about who you are as people.

uh How do you get how does the husband and wife get along or the spouses get along?

How do they fight?

How do they get mad?

How do they communicate?

uh And then how do I play how do I play into that?

What are what are my personality traits and how do I like to communicate and sharing those things?

openly and candidly with each other at the beginning of the process they Most of the time already come to me with a knowledge that I am qualified and I'm qualified

to build their home.

They've seen my Instagram page, Facebook, they've seen my socials, they've seen my website, they've talked to friends, they've heard, however they hear about me.

The qualification part is there.

They know that I can build their multi-million dollar home because I've done it many, many, times before.

What's really important is, is that the person that I want to be able to trust with my emotions, with my heart, and with my resources?

And is that person uh going to...

Protect those things just as much as he was protect.

He would protect them for himself And so we talk about those things and we talk about that just openly um It's kind of like hey, let's can we just kind of like get over the first

date?

We're just kind of like speed date for this and we're just gonna get down to the just you know Raw questions that that we both really want to know

And there's just no sense of beating around the bush.

um As I've matured in age and in business acumen, I just realized that cut the fluff, right?

It's just, don't just don't tell me anything that is just not 100 % true because it's just not gonna benefit you or me.

And so I'm just looking for clients who are open, who are honest, who are forgiving, who have grace, who have that grace mentality.

um

cool.

want to be involved in the process, but also be willing to trust me and listen to my opinions because I've been doing it for so long.

You know, a lot of people are building these large expensive homes for the first time in their life.

Or maybe they've done some other homes, but they may have not done one to this scale.

And so since I do this every day, just like an attorney or a CPA or whatever, we're going to them for their expertise.

I want that mutual respect.

of them understanding that I do have some knowledge to be able to impart, but...

Ultimately, it's getting them what they want and making sure that we're both on the same page and we have those discussions up front and sometimes um What we typically do is we

enter into a temporary agreement to just work together to do feasibility.

So it's kind of like Dating and if the dating process doesn't work.

Well, we're not gonna get married and and that's okay um Because it gives them the opportunity to see if they like me and they like our our team and our process

And gives me the time to also say that with just minimal commitment.

And then we know that we're signing that final contract.

like, hey, man, we love each other.

We're going to do anything we can for each other.

And by the end of this thing, you know, you're going to be calling me on holidays and you're going to be having me come over for a drink or, you know, whatever, maybe not every

week, but, um, we're going to be friends, but we're going be friends for a really long time.

And when you need something again, or when your family needs something, I'm here.

That is awesome.

I love hearing somebody that has that commitment to their customers and the process.

I guess I'm not in the custom home building business, but in construction in general, that's something I think is pretty rare.

Would you agree with that?

I

Absolutely would agree with it.

It's been what I have built all of the relationships on because if you remember back when we were talking about teaching well I was teaching all day, but I was there were homes

being built while I was teaching So every five minute break in between, you know class one to class two.

I would be on the phone.

Okay Oh, what do you need?

Okay, okay, whatever it was I'd be on the phone with the framer the plumber that you don't like Trish it or whatever It's like we I've got to call you back I got kids coming in and

I call them back, you know 25 minutes later and so it it was the

opportunity where I had to rely on the expertise of the trade professionals to help me.

my goal, and hopefully people don't cut this segment out and use it inappropriately, but my goal is to make my trade partners as much money as possible.

And that doesn't mean gouging.

That means that they are making a good living so they will prioritize my clients and therefore allow me to be able to provide not only the best quality but the best service

and the best longevity to whatever it is we're doing that is out there.

And that doesn't happen with me beating up my trade partners for you five bucks or 500 bucks.

It's like I need you to give me a fair price for you to be able to make a good living and for you to prioritize.

my clients, not your other clients, but my clients.

And so what's that price look like?

And my trade partners love me and I absolutely love them and I can't do it without them and they can't do it without me.

So it's a very, you know, symbiotic relationship, I guess might be the right word, but it's so critical that if this is, this business is not about sticks and bricks, it is all

about relationships, 100%.

That is great.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

I've said for a long time that the best projects are good business for everybody.

The customer gets a great product, great service at a reasonable price.

Everybody involved makes a reasonable profit, makes good money.

That's good business.

Absolutely win win win all around that's that's what it has to be

Yeah, perfect.

What is something that you wish you would have learned earlier?

Hmm.

I think...

um

learning how to plan and be more proactive versus reactive.

From the beginning, I entered the market as I mentioned when the market was very good and was very spoiled.

I just thought, gosh, you can, I mean.

a dumb school teacher builder can just make $50,000 on a house.

I didn't even hardly know what I was doing.

And so, this is easy and it's always gonna be this way.

ah So I think understanding the financial...

uh

Process of how the construction industry works was something that I had no experience in I took zero classes of any economics the only Partial economic class I took in college and

my masters Was like intro to micro econ and I had to beg the professor for a C-minus.

I was just completely braided I didn't understand it and and now frankly that the finance portion of the business and planning is Is something that I really enjoy because it helps

me make decisions

And before it was just always reactionary.

It's like, okay, well this happens.

Okay.

Well, what's the best decision I can make down?

Well, I guess it's this.

And you know, it's still not a very good decision, but it's the best one I can make.

Whereas now we work as hard as we can to make the decision ahead of time so that when the situation comes up, we already know what to do.

We can get through it, get past it and move forward so that we're looking out the windshield and not the rear view mirror.

uh That's a good sound bite right there, looking out the windshield.

Is there an opinion you have that has changed significantly as a result of your journey building your business?

Is there something that you thought or maybe a group of people or an idea that you judged unfairly early on and you've changed how you look at that with more experience?

Yeah, I think, and it changed quickly.

I grew up in an era in which the blue collar trades were kind of like what you did if you just weren't smart enough to go to college.

So if you didn't go to college, you're kind of like a loser.

You're going to work at 7-Eleven or work at a gas station or whatever it is you're going to do.

And the trades were looked at as

You know, a plan B, C or D, right?

If you just couldn't get a great career job.

And I didn't know what I didn't know.

I was just a dumb kid.

And as I got into the industry and I actually spent more time and understood the craft that these people do, they are far from being dumb.

They're frankly a lot smarter and more useful than any of the degrees that I have.

To be honest, ah if you ever ah were to come to some of the homes that I build and look at the geometry and the math that it takes to build the homes that we do, it'll blow your

mind.

Absolutely blow your mind.

So I would say at the very beginning, think that our environment, our society taught people to not respect the trades, not respect the blue collar.

And now it's like, those are the most respected.

the most respect I have is somebody who can can do something with their mind and their hands at the same time and frankly that's something AI is never going to be able to

replicate no matter how smart it is.

I don't see AI installing a drain underneath my sink or oh framing a shed in my backyard.

They're just not going be able to do those kinds of things.

so that's what I would say is probably the biggest thing is the respect I have for people in the industry.

That's great.

Sorry to go a little bit off topic.

I saw a meme or a reel or something online combining two of your stories here and it said, oh, AI is coming for my job.

Let's see AI drive two hours to a remote job site just to cut a beam one foot short.

Yeah, yeah, fair enough.

um Hey, listen, I mean, when I was teaching and like I was telling you in between uh classes, I had one of those old, you know, Motorola flip phones and then I got a

Blackberry and I was like, my gosh, my world has changed.

I don't have to push, you know, the number three twice to get B.

It's just so much easier to type a text message.

ha.

you know, here we are.

Technology is amazing.

I, my very first year in college, we learned about this thing called email and my email, what's that?

And computers I'd heard of, but we had never really had one.

We just did typewriters.

I'm really dating myself.

But, but anyways, it was like, learned all about the internet and of course there's so much good in technology that, is out there to be used.

And of course there's a lot of bad things that can be used for too, but, um, Hey, listen, I use, I use G chat, GPT for quite a few things.

um It certainly is not going to replace any part of my business, but it has allowed me to be a little bit more efficient where when I'm trying to research something, I'm not having

to go to five or 10 different places.

I'm able to kind of use more of a rifle approach, whereas the shot gun approach.

um But there's no question there's good things about it.

And I don't think anybody in the trade industry is going to have.

anything to worry about.

I'm sure it'll take over a few things, but um at some point, but there's nothing like the, you know, the human hand and the human brain.

In your circle or maybe in culture as a whole, do you see that shift happening widespread?

Because I'm with you, the generation I grew up in, was all go to college, go to college, go to college.

You got to get an education.

if you don't, those are kind of the second tier citizens.

Do you see that opinion shifting in culture as a whole or in your circle anyway?

Absolutely.

think uh a shift to more uh trade specific or trade centric learning uh or career technical education is what it might be more of a common term uh has been a focus for over

a decade now.

However, it had been the other way for so many decades.

Let's consider that as like the Titanic.

You don't turn the Titanic around like a canoe.

It takes a long time to turn that boat around.

And so, I've been involved with a nonprofit for over a decade now where we work with the high school kids.

We work with a program that has high school kids that where we build a house every year and we get people in the community to come together and help donate as much as we can and

whatever proceeds we make when we sell that house buys the lot, builds the house for the next year.

And so we're working on house number 11 or 12 now.

and that school that they go to has 10 different programs.

There's police, there's filmmaking, there's auto body, there's...

uh

There's manufacturing and welding.

There's like psychology behavior.

There's a whole bunch of different programs.

And to be honest with you, the graduation rate is embarrassing compared to the rest of the graduation rate of all of the other schools in Oregon.

So graduation rate at that particular school is like 94 % or something like that.

And the average of when Oregon high schools is like 70 something, it's abysmal.

But when kids can understand how to apply,

let's quote unquote stupid things that they're learning in school, but they understand there's an application for it and how that application can make my life better or how it

make me money or how we can do this or do that.

It's like the light bulb goes off.

Adults are realizing and they have been realizing that hey the people coming out of school Don't have any skills at least the skills that I need to To make the to meet the demand

that we have and so boy if we don't do something different We're still gonna have the same problem.

So yes, there is a big push.

There has been a push for a while uh There's gonna continue to be a push.

I personally would would love to

to see more of a, you probably what a lot of schools in Europe and those kinds do where you have your education up to a certain time and then you kind of help steer kids towards

a career path.

And of course they can change that career within that school.

But in high school, they're gonna come out with being able to then go right into becoming an electrician or being a framer or being an architect or an engineer or whatever it might

be.

uh I think that's the future of education.

I really do.

m

uh think there's a company-wide, or nationwide need by companies to employ uh these types of critical thinkers.

And that's kind of what they almost require now.

They're going to have the leg up versus somebody who just has a degree in philosophy or archaeology or whatever it might be.

That's great to hear.

I see similar things in our area.

yeah, I've been preaching that for a long time, probably 20 years almost.

I've been talking about the opportunity in the trade and that I don't ever want to talk down on education because there's a role for all of that too.

this culture we had built of one track to success and that's where everybody goes just isn't true.

There's a lot of opportunity out there and there's a lot of people that are not built for

higher education and some of the career tracks that that go towards that are incredibly brilliant, talented, capable people.

And they would way rather be out on a job site than sitting in a classroom.

So.

And to me, I don't see either one of them as being brighter than the other.

It's just it's being used for, you know, they're using their gifts for something that's really good.

And sometimes that's both.

And sometimes it's one and the other.

uh But, you know, we all have a role to play uh in finding out that role as young as possible is I think what we what we really should be doing in society is helping people

understand what their calling is and then supporting them to get there.

That's great.

I can't agree more.

Have you ever made a beneficial mistake?

uh Sometime when you really screwed up, it hurt you at the time, but in the long run, it led to a valuable lesson or really ended up helping you grow.

Yeah, absolutely.

think um as I mentioned before, I wanted to be upfront with clients that, um hey, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to make things right.

Well, that's easy to say, okay?

But when something happens that uh has a lot of dollar signs behind it, then it's...

going to test whether or not you really believe what you're saying and you're willing to put your money where your mouth is.

So I've had multiple opportunities where um I've had to make things right.

I've had to eat it, if you will.

um And frankly, we have a large amount of that every year because we wanna make sure that we do the right thing every time.

And sometimes things in construction just happen.

That's really nobody's fault.

But ultimately, I'm the general.

I am the person in charge.

And so if something happens, I'm the one who's gonna be able to take the heat for it.

And so I believe that wholeheartedly.

I've had opportunities where I've had to go and take a $50,000 bath, where I had to say, hey, listen, we screwed up.

And...

ah

here's what I want, I want to be able to lighten this load because I want us to be friends, I still want to be able to do projects for you in the past and uh would reducing

this amount allow you to feel good about this relationship so that we can move forward?

And he said yes.

And there's been other times where I haven't even had to have that conversation.

uh

I just do it, the clients find out about it and they're just like, Mike, thank you for doing that.

I'm like, are you kidding?

That's just what we do.

I wouldn't even think about it any other way.

So we do the right thing every time.

Now, sometimes we get it wrong, right?

It's not intentional, but we're always gonna get to the right way uh every time.

And I think that's just something that...

um Is something that's part of our DNA.

part of all part of our culture all of my guys know that That we do that and gals of course, this is this is who we are and this is how we do it now obviously we try to do as

little as possible, but Ultimately, that's the money part is is further on down the line of importance um Versus the you know the honesty and integrity that that we gain from

doing the right thing

Yeah, I've found that the customers on some of my projects that went the most sideways had the most problems or like you said, that ended up eating a mistake in the largest amounts.

Often those have come back to be my best customers.

They're my raving reviews.

They're the ones that go out and tell all their friends.

Have you found that to be true as well?

Absolutely.

um Maybe not in every case, but yeah, absolutely.

And the reason is is because they respect somebody who is willing to do whatever it takes to do the right thing, right?

Regardless, and this is the definition of integrity, right?

Regardless of who's watching or how it looks or how it hurts, uh that's, think, a lot of people really...

appreciate that they want to to be around people like that they want to do business with people like that and It's definitely something I've experienced

That's great.

So if you could go back to the beginning, 2011, launching Riddle Construction, would you choose to do it all over again?

Absolutely, I would in a heartbeat.

You know people Have asked me that I've thought about other other things that I would want to do and you know There's maybe a few things that I think would be kind of fun.

I would I would love to

restaurant or be a bartender.

Because I like people and I like being with people in fun situations.

You know where they're happy and enjoying themselves and uh but clearly neither one of those things are really part of my skill set nor um from what I understand are you know

financially wise to just start it and go unless you're willing to take some big hits.

uh But no I really wouldn't.

I love what I do.

I feel like

is who I was called to be and frankly it's really it's not necessarily building uh although that's that's how it's manifesting itself now it's it's just being the the type

of person that I was called to be and it just happens to be in this particular industry but if I was pulled out of this industry and moved to a different industry I would do

things the very similar obviously with just some different nuances uh

No, I love what I do.

I love being creative.

I love being social.

I love communicating.

I love building teams.

I love building people.

I love helping people.

spend an enormous amount of money and have fun doing it.

And I love doing that because that is something that most people don't get to do very often.

Who wants to two to $10 million with $20 million and not have fun doing it?

I that's crazy.

No one would ever sign up for that.

And so I love being a part of experience with people where uh I get to use my and my team's spending

to help make dreams come true.

Man, you've got me all jealous.

I've said for a long time, if I ever end up with a second career, I want to sell something that people are excited to buy.

uh As a roofer, maybe I need to take some lessons from you.

Maybe I'm just not good at it enough, but it's very rare that I have a customer that's excited to write me a check.

Yeah, hear you.

that's, you know, to be honest, if that's probably any singular trade other than maybe somebody who creates a vase or some, you know, some kind of a cool product.

Um, but, but boy, without the roof, mean, what, what good is anything else?

Right.

So

well, that's the thing is, uh especially we do mostly commercial, so it's not even a big visual appeal.

Like most of our roofs are flat out of sight.

You can't see them and the customer hires us because they have to never because they want to.

And, you know, we take good care of them.

We give them good service, but writing that check is like pulling teeth.

So I've always said in my next career, I want to sell something fun.

I want to sell four wheelers or speed boats or something.

m

you know, think honestly knowing um Knowing your strengths are really important and you know, frankly it could be roofing It could be plumbing supplies.

It could be four-wheelers.

It could be whatever um And I think finding your purpose in whatever it is.

It's selling four-wheelers or roofing is no more or less glamorous It's just you know, where are you where you're supposed to be right now?

That's good advice.

So what has been your biggest win as a leader or as a business owner?

I think one of the biggest wins that I have is when I can watch my team come together as a team and solve problems using the experience and the tools that they've been given to

do the right thing, make a situation right, or do whatever.

And it's not always retroactive where there was a mistake, but it's also making plans to be successful ahead of time.

And one of the things I find most rewarding, if I'm answering your question right, is being able to see the fruit of what I had worked very hard to create actually come to

fruition.

And I'm just so proud of the team that I have.

They're just solid humans, every single one of them.

And we continue to receive opportunities to hire and partner with new people.

And a lot of the times, Eric, I don't even look for them.

They just, they find me.

And it's just like, had one guy just come into the office and said, how do I come to work for you?

I'm like, what?

does that and we get to know him and we're just like how do we hire you it's it's it's just so cool to be able to uh to be a part of something to where you get to put something

in place you get to see the fruit not always do you get to do that sometimes it's sometimes you're the person cultivating the soil sometimes you're the person planting

sometimes you're the person watering sometimes you're the harvester uh

And so it is fun to be able to have multiple opportunities to see growth.

I think that the best leaders that I've interviewed when I asked that question, none of them ever talk about their success or financial success.

They talk about their team and their people.

And I can tell you have a real passion for the people that work for you and your team.

um What has been a secret to, I guess now you kind of have a culture that like you said, just attracts those people.

But do you have a secret for how you started out?

How do you find people that fit your culture and help you build that business that you're excited about your people?

Yeah, great question.

I think first you have to know what you're looking for.

So what type of person am I looking for?

What are the skill sets?

um What are the personality traits?

um Both positive and negative.

knowing what I'm looking for is really critical because it's kind of like my bumpers.

It's my guy brails.

It's whatever.

So that I'm not, you know, looking off over here.

It's like, it's a really nice gal or really nice uh guy.

You know, the resume is great.

But you know, they just didn't mark three or four of these other boxes like you know being personable or being humble or being thoughtful or Being a good speller You know things

like that You know being a teacher I I razz my team all the time when I see spelling mistakes ah

I make sure that they know it and they're very embarrassed.

So they make very few spelling mistakes.

But I think in addition, it's creating a sense of unity amongst the teammates so that when you are looking for somebody else, you're looking for somebody else who wants to be able

to come into an environment that's like that.

So it's creating an environment that you want and then looking for people who not only have the skills but have the desire to enter in that to that type of community.

Because there could be some people with skills

that could definitely do the job, but they might not have the temperament, they might not have the personality to be able to fit into the culture, and that's really critical.

So knowing what you want is the first thing.

And then, to be honest, it's really just getting the word out through your inner circle, whether that be social media, might be your church, or it could be...

uh

I don't want to say Craigslist or anything, but just getting stuff out there.

Doing stuff like Indeed and things like that, whereas the big corporate stuff, I've just found that to uh have a lack of fruit.

I'm looking for personal recommendations of people who know our business and feel like that person would be a good fit.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah.

What has been your best resource to grow as a leader?

Do you have an author, a book, a podcast, something that has really helped you grow?

Yeah, I mean, I tell you what helps me

to grow the most is, you know, is my faith.

So leaning into it, leaning into the word.

But um if I had to use.

You know two other kinds is definitely people There are people mentors in my life.

They've been different stages of my life that have been able to You know, there's been some person who could help me to grow into this stage of my life And then another person

came into my life.

They helped me grow through this stage and so on so forth Those relationships are critical because you're getting to see eyeball to eyeball to another person and that person

typically has kind of been there done that

Maybe not even the same exact situations, but they have such an objective piece about them that they could just truly just talk into your life without having to you know feel

anything else per se Have anything else weight them down and have to feel obligated to say this because they're your cousin or because they're financially You know a fiduciary to

you or something Some some books that I love I mean there's so many good books and I um get into every single one of them, but

One of the books that I make every single one of my employees read, it's mandatory, it's called The Ideal Player.

And it's by the guy's last name is Lindsay, I think that's how pronounce it.

And Pat, yeah, Patrick.

So the premise of the three things about the book that I love the most, and this is something that we talk about in all of our team meetings, we talk about on some of our

trade partner meetings, is being hungry, humble, and smart.

And so it's hungry to always learn, it's hungry to get better,

to be the best that you can.

It's humble knowing that you can't do it yourself.

don't know everything.

You need other people.

You need mentors.

You need instruction.

um

And then smart is not book smart.

It's not that it couldn't be part of it.

It's really about people smart.

It's being able to read the room.

It's being able to understand when you need to give bad news, bad news fast, and when you need to maybe ratchet it back a little bit and wait for a better opportunity when this or

that might need to occur.

So that book is really so critical.

And those are the types of people that I'm looking for.

if you don't have those three things,

Or at least it's not something that you're striving for that you don't you don't ever arrive nobody arrives that they're they're perfectly humble They're perfectly hungry and

smart But if that if that resonates with them, I think that's huge uh

So that book has really helped transform.

It's at least one thing that I can say.

Of course, How to Win Friends and Influence People is an amazing book.

ah There's so many good ones.

The EOS, What the Heck is EOS.

There's so many really good books that I like for not only self-help but organization.

Because these are things that I just didn't learn in school.

Or if I did, they just went right over my head.

Because I saw no application.

My sophomore year in high school, taking geometry, I'm like, man, what a waste of time.

houses with geometry every day and as soon as I realized that it's like man I love geometry how come I didn't like that more

so

We had a guest on a couple of weeks ago.

He was a former Marsok Marine and he said that he hated math in high school and then he joined the Marines and they taught him that you can weaponize math, artillery, long

distance shooting, it's all math.

And he got excited about math once he found out you can use it for war.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And I love math now.

It was one of my hardest subjects, but I realized what math does is it helps me to make good decisions that then help with other parts of my life.

Not necessarily just financial, but they can help in many other ways.

so math has become real, and there's a real application to it.

I'm trying to teach that to my kids too, and try to get them to pay the bill and do the appropriate amount of tip and get them to understand that you can make good decisions

which will help make you be more successful.

uh

in so many different ways.

Good stuff.

Well, I know you've been through some hard stuff.

um You started a business from scratch twice, transitioned from a white collar teaching career to blue collar construction and even experienced bankruptcy and a failed business.

What gives you the motivation to keep going when things get hard?

That's so good.

ah

It's again, comes back to number one, my faith.

I just know that no matter what, I'm loved, I'm saved, and I'm protected in a certain way.

uh One of my favorite sayings is uh consider it pure joy, my brothers, when you experience pain and affliction because it creates perseverance and perseverance creates other good

things.

I mean, it's obviously a paraphrase, but I...

I wouldn't say that I relish challenge and pain and conflict and those kinds of things, but as I have matured, not only in life, but through business, I've realized that those

are the opportunities in which I grow the most.

Those are the opportunities in which I have actually gained the most traction.

gained the most knowledge.

I gained the most insight.

gained the most...

ah

you know, experience of whatever the feelings were.

And, you know, the going through some of those afflictions that you mentioned, you know, losing my home, it was the most embarrassing thing.

Eric, you can, I had to go to the bankruptcy court and it's like, the client was there saying how much they hated me and the judge was, you know, saying, okay, you've lost

everything.

I just so, um you know, I had four kids to support and a wife and it was just so like low.

It was a very big low.

And I can tell you, to this day, I wouldn't trade it for the world.

I am the man, the husband, the father, the business owner, and the person I am today because of the hardships that I've gone through.

And while I certainly don't want to do that again, I do know that hardships uh create things of beauty in my life.

And so I wouldn't say that I ask for them every day, but I certainly know that uh I know who is going to help me through it.

and that is very comforting to know.

That's great.

That's something I struggle with a lot is I look at my own life and the times that I grew the most, the times that I matured the most, the times that I was uh closest to my savior

were the most difficult times in life.

And so I think about as I pray for my kids and think about what I hope for them in their future.

I I don't ever want to hope hardship on my kids or pray for hardship, but I also don't want to

them to live a life without the opportunity to experience the peace that you can have during hardship, the maturity, the growth, the development that comes with that.

And so it's kind of this, yeah, I'm with you.

I don't ever hope for hardship, but there's a part of me that kind of longs for that development, that growth that comes through it.

So.

takes, that takes maturity over time because when it, when it happens for the first time, you're just like, the heck just hit me.

And just like I hit with a hammer.

Um, but as time progresses and you mature in your, your walk in life and walk in faith is that you just start to know that, you know, that, know, that, you know,

And it becomes where it's like, okay, I recognize it.

Here we go, we're in a season.

Here we go.

It's a render attack, but you know what?

Lord, you got this.

And so I'm here.

Tell me what you need me to do.

And I'm willing to do it.

But yeah, praying over our kids every day is so huge and getting them to understand that, not giving them a cheat code to get out of it, because that doesn't work.

But let me know, it will happen and when it does, here's some things that you can do to help get you through it.

But understand that the end goal is always this.

m

Yeah, and it's grow through it.

I know I have a friend I meet with weekly to pray together and we were sharing some stuff a couple weeks ago and I said, you know, right now I have five problems in front of me

that five years ago, any one of those problems would have been almost debilitating.

And now I call it Tuesday.

Yeah, amen brother, amen.

you know, people just, people that haven't been, you know, through a lot of the things or don't own a business or haven't owned something or been a part of something to where you

have this exposure all the time, you just, you can't get it.

And you would never expect them to get it.

But boy, I say that all the time.

like, yeah, it's just like every other day.

ah It's not always that dramatic, ah but you're right.

And I think that part is so fun when you can actually retrospectively go, man, two years ago, I would have been so scared.

I'd been on my knees.

I would have been just scared in a corner running and doing anything I can do to kind of get away from it.

And now it's just like,

I've come a long ways and thank you, Lord, for that.

That's great.

Well, that is a great segue into my favorite question.

It's apparent talking with you, you're a Jesus follower.

Can you tell us a little bit about that and how that has shaped your journey building your business and shaped your growth as a leader?

um Yeah, I would say that I grew up in a Christian household.

um I was saved as a young person in mid-80s.

I was, let's 12 or something like that.

And I always went to church and I knew that was kind of my foundation.

My parents said that we went to church every Sunday.

just what we did.

um

And I didn't necessarily always, you know, have a deep love for the Lord and, you know, follow him in every single aspect of my life from the time I was little to until now.

But I can tell you that as my life progressed from one thing to the other, that

that foundation, that solid rock.

I always felt it as a presence in my life.

I have a tattoo on my arm and uh it's a cross.

And at the bottom of the cross is roots.

And those roots, entangled in those roots is a verse in Proverbs where it basically talks about teach a child in the way that they would go.

And that is something to where as a parent it has been so critical for me to help my kids understand that no matter what you do, where you go, how you perform, how you win, how you

fail, God will never leave you.

He will never forsake you.

He will always be there for you.

but he is a gentleman and he will not force that upon you.

You have to be able to connect to him in this world.

uh He created you for relationship, not only with him, but he created you for relationship with each other.

And so if you...

If you're not having good relationships with others, it might mean that you're not having a good relationship with him.

If you're having a great relationship with him, you probably are having good relationships with others.

And so it's always been connected and rooted in uh the word and rooted in your faith and fellowship with others who think the same.

ah Not always, because of course we want to evangelize and be with as many people as we can, but.

ah

Those are things that I would say are so critical, is teach a child the way they should go and when they're old they will never waver.

And doesn't mean that the road's perfect and smooth and always escalating up.

uh There's gonna be hills and valleys and low times and high times and lots of bumps and potholes.

uh But ultimately, uh it is part of the journey and with a for sure destination.

Yeah, Jesus says, pick up your cross and follow me, not hop on the escalator.

That's right.

Amen.

All right.

Well, you mentioned earlier that uh you've kind of gone through a name change recently.

You're starting to think 10, 15 years down the road towards retirement.

ah So what is next for you and what's in your mind as far as an exit plan?

Yeah, it was a good question.

you know, man picks his or chooses his way, but the Lord directs his paths.

I think if I am planning out my future, what I'm really working on right now in this part of my

my career is working more on the business than I am in the business.

So it's creating uh higher level teams that can be doing some of the things that I used to do.

It's creating processes and systems and metrics that we can follow and incentive programs based on those metrics.

uh So it's creating a system of how we do business, our culture, and then of course,

There's all the nuts and bolts about how, you know, what do we do when we do a standard soft fit?

What is the, what is the riddle construction way?

How do we do that?

So we have that kind of a document to where if I had you come over and be one of my superintendents, I could give you that document.

You would know that, okay, well we don't, we don't put, you know, two joints together of soft fit and just caulk it and smear it.

We always use a a metal connection piece so that it's clean and crisp and, you know, stuff like that, right?

Or we, we always insulate all of our interior walls.

no matter what.

It's just what we do, it's a standard.

So it's creating things like that where it's so hard to think about the business from a 50,000 foot view when you're the one swinging the hammer.

Because I used to do that.

I used to pouch up and gosh, I'd set up a foundation wall and put up one board, I'd be on a phone call for 10 minutes and I'd set up the other board and I'd be on the phone call

and then...

shoot, I did that wrong.

I forgot where I was.

I missed the measurement.

so it is, it's critical for, not critical, but it's, it's,

What I'm trying to do now is look at how I want to lead my team for the future so that it means less of me and more of how the system works so that I can actually focus on things

that I'm really good at, but I haven't necessarily had as much freedom to do because I've always been busy doing all the rest of the things.

And that is just develop relationships amongst my own team, but then develop relationships in the community.

It's networking.

It's really being the person of

face of the company when you go out and I actually can meet with the clients and instill in them who we are as a company.

And then when my team comes in behind me, they're just like, who was Mike again?

Because it's just so seamless, right?

It's just a seamless transition from me to them.

And then eventually that person who does what I said I was going to do is somebody else or a multitude of people who can actually do that.

And it doesn't have to be me.

And I never want it to be about me.

So in the future, I see myself doing more of um

becoming an advisory role at some point.

I've also started another business where we do kind of maintenance and concierge for a lot of our clients.

So if they need their fridge stocked or their windows washed or their furniture out or the barbecue cleaned or whatever, just for our clients that sign up for this concierge

service.

And that might be something that I decide to kind of keep in the future.

It's also a CRM tool to kind of retain our clients.

And then if there's other clients that we get that we didn't

build their house then if there's issues that we need to fix something then it's going right back to rental construction for a remodel.

So maybe I do something like that.

um I've also thought about becoming an owner's rent.

uh to where I know how to put together teams and I am very involved in the Home Builders Association.

I'm the actual the state president of the Oregon Home Builders Association and I'm on the leadership council and some committees for the National Association of Home Builders and

so have just a broad network.

of uh executive officers throughout the country where, hey, know, uh such and such in Wyoming, who's the best roofer?

Who's the best builder actually in this area for this type of home?

And then I would network with that builder and we would bring in architects and interior designers.

And then I would be the person that would be kind of the...

the glue that holds everybody together so that the homeowner doesn't have to talk and do all that work themselves.

They can just trust that one person to look out for them and to make sure they have their back and who they're not necessarily in contract with to build the house.

They're in the contract with to look after their needs.

So that would involve some traveling, which would be taking my wife, we've been married 27 years now as of last week.

we could do some traveling.

Yeah, thank you.

We could do some traveling and get to

different parts of the country, get to meet new people, put together teams, and just celebrate what's so awesome about what we do.

I'm not the only person in this country who can build a custom home.

I'm just one of many and wouldn't even consider myself the best by any means.

uh

I love what I do and would love to help other people in the future kind of navigate that process when they don't know anybody in Austin or the Hamptons or Vale or McCall or

whatever.

ah

Who knows?

We'll see where the world leads me.

um I'm excited, whatever it looks like.

I have four kids and eventually we'll have grandkids, God willing.

And obviously they're gonna be spread out all over the country based on what they do.

uh so that will be kind of fun to travel and see them.

ah It's a ways out.

So I can only kind of dream and start to somewhat plan that way.

Okay.

Are any of your kids currently involved in your business or do they have any ambition to join?

No, they don't.

They are part of the social media team, so they do um help with that.

a senior in college or the sophomore in college, they're doing completely different.

It has nothing to do with my business.

My senior in high school, not necessarily I think anything to do with the business.

Maybe marketing, photography type stuff.

So who knows, maybe there's a segue there.

And my son is an eighth grader.

He has no idea about anything, right?

He's just living the dream and he's had three sisters to do and his mom to do.

most things for him so he's not thinking too far out ahead on what he might want to do but hasn't shown any kind of desire to be part of the industry which is totally fine.

I don't have any ego or if they want to be of course I would welcome them but it's not a requirement by any means just a lot of the lessons that this business would learn I

wouldn't want them to know and that doesn't mean they have to work here to do that.

Yeah, that can always change too.

I know I started working for my dad and my business.

Wow.

I mean, when I was born basically, but I came on the team full time on payroll doing a full time real job during the summer when I was 16.

And from the time I was 16 till I was a junior in college, this was the last thing I was going to do as an adult career.

And when my senior year of college came around and I had to actually start figuring out what I was going to do, I figured out maybe there was a difference between somebody that

ran a roofing company and just a high school or college kid working on a roofing crew.

And the job I was doing was maybe not the job I wanted to do, but I could still do it in the same organization.

So yeah.

Yeah.

uh

Is there anybody that you would like to see on the show?

Somebody you know that has a really cool story, maybe has a unique business or is in a unique industry that you'd like to learn more about?

Yeah, I think that's an interesting question.

I would need to probably get back to you on that.

There's so many people that I know that would be great on this type of show.

Probably have to get back to you on that one, Eric.

Okay, well I will follow up because we're always looking for unique and cool stories to tell on the show.

So, all right, we're getting close to the end.

My last question to either settle or fuel the debate.

If you have a job to do, which cordless tool brand do you prefer?

um I would say DeWalt.

It's just something that I've used, you know, forever.

uh I've had experience with Milwaukee and they're fine too.

uh But DeWalt's kind of always been my go-to.

All right, we'll chalk one more up for DeWalt.

well, Mike, thank you so much for joining us.

It has been a pleasure getting to know you and chatting with you, having you on the show.

I appreciate you taking the time and joining us.

And for all of you listeners out there, thank you for joining us here on From the Ground Up Show.

If you want to be part of a future show, either as a feature guest or if you want to call in or write a question for myself or one of our guests,

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