Dylan McCabe – Special Ed to Seminary and a National Roofing Group

Hey there and welcome to From the Ground Up show where we

inspire and encourage the next generation of blue collar

leaders by telling the stories of those that have been there,

done that and in many cases are still doing it.

So today we're honored to have Dylan McCabe.

He is the Co founder and owner of Limitless Roofing Group,

which is a national group purchasing organization for

roofers. He's the father of three girls,

a husband and an entrepreneur. So welcome, Bill, and thanks for

joining us. Thanks for having me man.

Awesome. We we just want to hear your

story kind of where you come from and how you got to where

you are. So do you mind just telling us a

little bit about kind of your background, starting with where

you grew up, how you grew up and how you got to where you are

today? Yeah, so I grew up, I was

actually born in Virginia in the Blue Ridge Mountains, in a

little town called Bedford, which nobody's heard of because

it's so small. It's just a bunch of farmers and

stuff. And we moved to Texas when I was

6. And I grew up in League City,

TX, which is kind of halfway in between Houston and Galveston

and raised like a lot of guys in a single, single parent home, a

broken home, raised by my mom and I had two older sisters.

And so, you know, we didn't have any kind of guide rails for life

or moral compass or anything. So I got into got into all kinds

of trouble later on growing up and struggled a lot through

school. I was in special Ed all my life.

And you know, it's just hard when you got a mom that works 2,

sometimes three jobs just to provide.

And I mean, man, I barely made him out of high school and then

just kind of did different things, man.

I mean, just worked out a lot. That was either at the gym or,

you know, at a club. I mean it, that was kind of my

life. So not really going anywhere.

And then, you know, God really broke through my life and I

became a Christian. And that's a longer story, but I

went from being a pretty passionate skeptic to a

passionate Christian and started telling everybody about Jesus

and then went to Bible college, got into prison ministry,

started talking to Aryan Brotherhood members and Mexican

Mafia members and stuff like that about God and, and having a

really interesting conversations.

And then moved up to Dallas to go to Dallas Theological

Seminary. And then while I was at Dallas

Seminary, God started doing some things in my heart and in my

life and just kind of led me into the world of

entrepreneurship and met some Christian entrepreneurs.

And that was a real turning point because I thought I'd be

preaching for the rest of my life.

And it's funny how God has different plan.

You know, you have one way you think your life will go, and God

has just completely different plans.

And so I've tried a lot of different things over the years,

from vending machine business to chemical supplies to lots of

stuff, and got into the roofing industry four years ago.

And we started a mastermind group called the Limitless CEO

Group. And we started just bringing

roofing owners together to share best practices and learn

business systems. And I started asking these guys,

where are the buying groups and roofing?

Because I was in healthcare before getting into roofing.

Like I said, I've done a lot of things over the, over the years,

but I was in healthcare for two years in sales and called on

these big buying groups called GP OS or group purchasing

organizations. And so when I, when I got into

roofing, I started asking where are the GP OS and roofing?

And everybody's like, what are you talking about?

And I'm like a buying group. And people are like, what do you

mean, like buying other roofing companies?

And I'm like, no, hundreds or thousands of us coming together

to negotiate group purchasing discounts, you know?

And so everybody that I talked to about said, no, I've never

been a part of anything like that.

And so basically we came back with, well, if we started a

group like that, would you join? And everybody said, well, yeah,

why? Why wouldn't I?

And that was kind of the birth of the idea of the limitless

Roofing group. Awesome.

You said you barely made it out of high school and then you

spent some time in Bible college.

Any any other education in there?

Did you finish your college degree or do any business

education? Yeah, so I, you know, having,

when I, when I graduated high school, I finally, I went to a

psychiatrist because I thought, you know, I've been in special

Ed all my life. I've always struggled with

school. I've never wanted to do it.

I've had teachers all my life telling me I had ADHD or

whatever, but my mom would always come back and and I was a

really big gamer and I was one of the best.

I mean, it, it didn't matter what game it was, I would.

And I'm not patting myself on the back.

That's just what I went through as a teenager.

I was one of the best. And I mean, if it came to a

first person shooter like Halo or whatever, it wasn't even

close. I would just win all the time

against everybody by a huge margin because I would play for

40 hours a week. So how do you compete with

somebody like that who makes it their full time job?

So my mom would come back to teachers and the psychologists

and say, yeah, but he can focus on something for hours at a time

if he's interested in it. So I'm not putting him on any

drugs. So I finally graduated high

school, barely. I actually tried my senior year

because I thought, man, there's nothing worse than being held

back your senior year. And, and I went to a

psychiatrist and he took me through all kinds of testing, IQ

tests, all kinds of stuff. And after all of that, it took

weeks to to go through all that. He said, look, man, he's like,

I've got some good news and some bad news.

I'm like, OK, you know, if I'm not playing with a full deck of

cards, just let me know. I don't care.

I'm just, I'm just, I would like to know if there's a reason for

why I've, I've been a terrible student all my life and been

slower than everybody, had more difficulty than everybody.

He was like, look, man, your IQ is not low and, and he's like, I

don't know what it is because you didn't finish any portion of

the IQ test. And he's like, it could be way

above average, but we'll never know because you don't complete

anything, He said. The moment you experience a

little bit of difficulty, you give up.

And he said, and that's the good news I've got.

He's like, you have a severe case of negative self talk.

And he said, most kids learn how to work through that at a young

age where they experience something different difficult.

And they're like, I can't do this.

And they have a parent or a teacher or siblings that are

around them that communicate. The message will keep going.

You're going to get it. You know, keep trying.

Here's how you do it. Well, I grew up with a mom that

that she didn't even graduate high school, so she had a hard

time helping me as well. And so I learned at a very young

age, I can't do stuff and I just need to give up because it's not

even worth trying. And so that carried me on into

adulthood, right? And so he was like, he was

basically like, you need to switch that from I can't do

this, I'm done to trying. Like when it's hard, keep trying

and you need to replace it with positive self talk, some

positive statements instead of just the head talk that you've

trained yourself. It's not just a it's what you

actually believe. Now you've practiced this so

long, it's just who you are. And he said, I don't know what's

going to happen to you if you find something you're interested

in. And so he said that's the other

big problem is he's like, you just don't care.

He said, you don't care if other kids are taking SA TS and trying

to get in college, as you have no interest in that, therefore

you don't care, Therefore you're not even going to try.

And that's true. I didn't take my SA TS.

I was like, I don't know if I want to go to college and I and

I don't care. Like I'm, I'm more of AI marched

the beat of my own drum. I've always been like that.

I don't care what the crowd is doing.

I don't care what popular fashion is, what the popular

song is like. It bothers me frankly, when

everybody thinks the same. It's like, are you not thinking

for yourself just a little bit, You know?

So I was, I was extreme with that.

I was extreme with that and it caused me some problems, right?

So I was about 18 when I met with him, still kept living a

just kind of a narcissistic lifestyle, gym, partying, just

that kind of stuff, everything that goes along with that.

And then had a radical conversion experience to Christ

and then went to Bible college and graduated.

So the way I went to Bible college is a God story too.

I was approached by a guy that was a wealthy donor to a

ministry. And one of the way I got saved

was God did some really big things, but one of the he did 4

big things really. I met a guy at the gym that I

became good friends with, and he had something really special

about him that nobody else that I knew had, and it was Jesus

shining through him. Then I argued with him about

Christianity. Yeah, I argued with him about

Christianity at a place called Cafe Brazil in Houston about

every two weeks like clockwork for almost 3 years.

I tried to get him to leave his Christianity because I thought

it was the stupidest worldview possible.

And I was a little bit philosophical and I just thought

it was ridiculous. So at the end of three years, I

thought, wow, I, I've never met anybody like this.

And he has really good answers for all of my questions.

And I don't, I don't have any answers.

All I have is questions. And so I asked him for a great

book on Christianity. You know, I was like, give me

the best book on Christianity you can.

I want really good reasons for why you believe that it's true,

not just what it teaches. And the next day he gave me Mere

Christianity by CS Lewis. And I thought, man, I'm just

going to poke all the holes in this book.

This is just going to be full of contradictions.

And the exact opposite happened. I mean, every page I read, I was

like, wow, this, this really makes a lot of sense.

And that that was a miracle to me because prior to that, I

would just RIP ideas to pieces. And I loved it.

I loved getting into those debates with people and that was

an experience. And then the final two things

God did was we had a total stranger coming come over to mow

our lawn. I had knee surgery because my

knee was messed up. And it's in the middle of the

summer in Houston and this guy comes over and he's like in a

good mood. He's happy.

It's 100 plus degrees outside. It's just weird.

He's like, he's so it's, he's so happy and smiley.

It's just weird. And I'm a total unbeliever and

I'm hanging out with kind of a rougher crowd.

You know, there's violence, there's drugs, there's, you

know, I'm just not the kind of guy that wants to be overly,

overly friendly with people. And he, I take him to the

backyard and then out of nowhere he goes.

You know what, Dylan? God is telling me to talk to you

about Jesus. And I mean, I'm just like in my

head, that's like saying that's like you, Eric, saying Dylan, I

got to tell you, this is going to sound crazy, but I got to

tell you about my family. They've been living on Mars for

the last 50 years. It was that crazy.

And something inside the normal me would have been like, dude,

get the F out of my yard. Like just go.

But something told me to sit there and listen.

I mean, it was intense. Like I just knew I needed to be

quiet and listen. And he asked me a question that

I've never heard before. I'd read about it as a concept,

but nobody had ever just put it to me the way he did.

And he said, Dylan, do you have any idea how much God loves you?

Do you have any clue about that? And I was just like, man, no.

And he just. And I had so the police had been

called at our family Christmas six months prior because I

attacked, physically attacked my brother-in-law.

Like that's the kind of person I was.

So for him to start telling me about how much God loved me and

he just went on and on, like God knew your name before you were

even born. He had this conversation planned

before you were born. He's got plans and good works

for you that you don't even know about.

He knows your name. He's got the hairs on your head

all night. I mean, he just went on and on

about how much God knew me and loved me.

And he just started preaching, man.

I mean, like for like 30 minutes straight in my backyard.

I mean, he had his hand waving. He had a smile on his face the

whole time. He went through Jesus, the

death, burial and resurrection. He went through heaven and hell.

He went through discipleship. I mean, he covered a ton of

ground. And at the end of it all, he

went to throw his arm around me. And he's like, come on man, you

can accept Jesus right now. Like you can be saved today.

And I'm just like, hold on man. Like you clearly believe this

100%, but I'm not there and I'm not going to do this unless I'm

100% convinced that this is the truth.

So he was like, all right, you go inside me and you go inside

and you pray and you ask God to show you the truth.

And I was like, OK. And he went on to mow the yard

and I went inside and I prayed. And I still remember the prayer

because I I'd only prayed a few times in my whole life before

that. And I said, God, I don't know

who you are and I don't know what you are, but I know you're

there. CS Lewis has convinced me of

that. But I also know that there's all

these different world views, atheism, Islam, Christianity,

Hinduism, Buddhism, you name it, but they can't all be true.

Whatever the truth is about you, it, it is that truth and it is

no other truth. 1 + 1 is 2. It's not 3.

It's not 7. Like that's objective truth,

right? And so I said, God, please show

me the truth because I don't want to believe a lie because of

what that guy said out there is true.

It sounds incredible, but I don't want to be deceived, so

please show me the truth. And that was my prayer.

And I just kind of went on about my business, probably went back

to playing Halo. So 2 weeks later, God did the

4th and final thing in my life. That was just, it hit me like a

ton of bricks and I'm at this wedding.

A buddy of mine from junior high had called me out of the blue.

We were really close friends all throughout elementary and junior

high. And then we had high school and

he just he went to the sports crowd and I went to kind of the

loser pothead party crowd. And we just kind of never, we

just kind of lost touch. He calls me out of the blue and

says, how you been doing, man? And I'm like, Chris, how's it

going? Like, great to hear from you.

And he said, well, I've got good news.

I'm getting married. And in my head I'm like, oh,

man, what a sucker. Like you're going to have a ball

and chain with one woman for the rest of your life.

What a terrible decision, you know?

And but of course I tell him that Congrats, man, I'm happy

for you. And, and he said, well, good.

I was hoping you can be my best man.

And I'm like, wow, OK. I mean, I hadn't talked to him

in years. I'm like, man, I, I would love

to. So to me, that was God's way of

making sure I showed up. So I go, I go to this wedding

and he's a Christian Now. Chris had been a Christian for

years. I guess he got converted at some

point in high school. And it is an overtly, no, I did

not know that. And it's an overtly Christian

wedding. Like the pastor, the guy

officiating the wedding is just sharing the gospel the whole

time to the point to where I'm standing up there as a best man

next to my buddy Chris. And I'm like, man, does anybody

else think this is a little intense?

Like, does he have to keep talking about God?

Like, this is so just heavy, you know, But to them that it was

probably great. So the couple gets married.

I go to the reception and there's a couple of 100 people

there that I've never met before.

And I'm just making my way through the crowd, talking to

different people. And I meet this old man and we

get to talking and he had something in his hands and it

looked like a look like a coin collection or something framed

in a in a, you know, a wooden frame with glass.

And I said, what is this? And he said, well, this is this

is my gift to the bride and groom.

I'm the grandfather of the bride.

This is one of the happiest days of my life.

He said, I'm so happy for Chris and Kelly that they got married

today. And this represents the most

important thing in life. And I'm like, well, I'm, I'm

kind of a philosophical guy. What's the most important thing

in life? And he said, well, the one gold

coin on top represents Jesus Christ.

And the 12 gold coins underneath represent his 12 disciples.

And I said, oh, that's interesting.

I'm, I'm wrapping up a book on Christianity right now called

Mere Christianity. And I'm thinking, I already know

enough about Christianity. I'm, I'm already there.

Like, it's cool, there's a lot of truth to it, but I'm not a

believer, right? So just that arrogance of

thinking, since I've studied something a little bit, I

already know it. And he looks at me and he goes,

you know what, young man? God is telling me to talk to you

about Jesus. And I'm just like, wait a

second. He used the exact phrase word

for word that the Mexican lawn service guy used in my backyard

a few weeks earlier. And I know they don't know each

other and I know that they're not going to churches where the

leader is telling, you know, all the people attending, hey, go

around the total strangers and use this phrase in these exact

words. So I knew something was

happening. And I mean, it was I had tunnel

vision on him. I lost sight of everybody else

at the reception. It was like it was just the two

of us. And he said, young man, he said,

I know God has plans for you, but you're not going to believe

in him unless I share with you what happened to me.

And he said, I've only shared this with my family, direct

family and a few very close friends.

I haven't shared it with very many people in my life, but I

know God wants me to share this with you today.

And I'm thinking, my gosh, what is this guy about to share with

me? Yeah.

And he's, he said, I've always believed in Jesus.

Ever since I was a little boy. I had faithful parents that, you

know, taught me about Jesus and the good news.

And he said I believed in him and followed him all my life,

ever since I was a little boy. But about 40 years ago, and this

was 25 years ago now. But when he was telling me this,

this was back in 2002. And he said 40 years ago, he was

driving down an old Texas Rd. out in the middle of nowhere,

and he was delivering some papers, some hand delivering

some papers. And this is before cell phones

and stuff. So he's driving hours out in the

middle of Texas, out in the middle of nowhere, and he's got

the windows down and the wind starts blowing these papers

around that he'd been on the road for hours to deliver.

And so he takes his eyes off the road and he goes to put his hand

on the papers. And when he looks back at the

road, the road has started curving and he's on a hill and

he jerks the wheel to get control the car and completely

loses control the car. And he said he tried everything

from turning the wheel, hitting the brakes, everything you can

imagine completely loses control the car.

It goes flying off the top of this hill way down to the

bottom. It smashes into the ground.

He bursts through the windshield.

He hits the ground and he can't move.

And the first thing he thought was, Oh my God, I broken my back

because he was alive, but he couldn't feel any pain and he

couldn't move. And he realizes he can move his

shoulder. So he starts like inching his

shoulders along the ground. And he's thinking to himself, if

I can get up to the top of the hill, somebody at some point

today maybe will drive by and see me.

So he moves, does this for a little bit, and then he just

passes out. Well, while he's laying there, a

man and his little boy just happened to be driving down that

same old Texas Country Rd. out in the middle of nowhere in a

brand new car. And they start approaching that

same area where the hill is. And the car starts to overheat

and they start climbing the hill and steam starts coming out of

the hood of the car. And they get to the top of the

hill in the exact spot where this guy, his name was, Lawrence

Taft, where Mr. Taft's car flew off the road.

This brand new car that this man and his son are driving just

completely breaks down and the guy don't know what's going on.

It's a perfectly fine car. It's a new car.

He gets out, he opens the hood. He can't figure out what's wrong

with the car. He goes to try to restart it.

It's completely dead now, useless.

Well, his little boys like exploring, looking around and

while his dad's jacking with the car for like 45 minutes and his

little boy goes, dad, dad, there's something at the bottom

of the hill. And he goes with his son and

they look down toward the bottom of the hill and there's this

crushed up car with this body laying next to it just

motionless. So they go down there, they grab

him, they drag him up to the top of the hill.

And the guy is thinking the same thing.

Well, maybe at some point today somebody will come by, but this

guy's going to die on us. And the little boy looks at the

dad and says, dad, just try to start the car one more time.

And the dad's thinking, why would I do that, right?

So he goes, he gets in the car, puts the key in the admission,

turns the key and the car starts right up.

And they rushed this guy to the nearest doctor's office and they

get him in there on the in the examination room.

And the doctor comes in and he regains consciousness.

And the doctor says, Mr. Taff, I'm not a religious man, but

there is no medical explanation for you to be alive today.

You should be dead. You should have lost X amount of

blood. None of this makes any sense.

And so I'm thinking, wow, this is amazing.

And I told him that I said God, God worked a miracle in your

life. That's amazing.

And I've read enough of Mere Christianity to believe in a

powerful God who can work miracles.

Still don't know who he is, though.

And he looks at me and he says, you know what, young man?

He said I didn't just pass out when I was laying next to my

car. He said I died.

And he said when he died, he rose above his body.

He was about 1015 feet above his body.

And he said he wasn't happy. He wasn't sad.

He was just there and he looked at his body kind of like he

said, like you, you taking your clothes off for the day and

you're going to put new clothes on and they've served their

purpose and that's it. And he said then everything

around him turned dark, like pitch black dark.

He said he saw the man and his son could drag his body away and

all that. Soon as that happened,

everything around him turned dark, like a darker than dark,

darker than you can imagine. And he began to wonder what's

happening? You know, am I dead?

Am I alive? Where am I?

And he said as soon as he could think the question, almost

before the thought was even finished, the answer was there.

And so he started thinking all these questions and answers just

started pouring in. So he had no misunderstanding

and he had No Fear because there was nothing that he didn't know.

If he wanted to know it, it was there.

And it began to be lifted away from his body.

And way up above there was this, this bright white light, like

way up above, like an outer space.

And he's lifted to it faster and faster.

Like he said, the speed was just incredible.

It's still the whole question and answer thing.

And then he sat down in space somewhere on nothing.

He's just standing there and something speaks to him and

says, walk to the light, Lawrence, walk toward the light.

So he starts walking toward the light.

And still the whole question and answer.

I mean, he's like asking about dinosaurs, aliens, anything you

can imagine. He's just what about this?

What about that? And then he said he's walking.

And at one point, he noticed something off to his right and

he looked over and he said there was this massive, beautiful

white gate. And he said you knew right away

when you saw it that no human architect could ever design

anything this spectacular. He said it was just amazing how

beautiful it was and massive it was.

And he said there were all these people around it in front of it.

And they were yelling to him and they were like, Lawrence,

Lawrence, we're here, We're here.

And he said it was a joy that you just, you can't understand.

It's like the most amazing family reunion ever.

And they were people that knew him, and some of them had been

dead, gone for generations. And he wanted to run to them,

but something told him not yet. Lawrence, walk to the light.

So he keeps walking to the light.

And he said the light got brighter and brighter.

And he said it got so bright that he couldn't even look at

it. I mean, he's like walking toward

it with his hand over his face. He said it was brighter than the

sun. Then he began to feel something

coming off of the light and he said it was so overwhelming that

it drowned everything else out. And the people at the gate, the

whole knowledge, perfect knowledge experience that he was

having with all the questions and answers, he said it just

overwhelmed everything. And he, he said it was so

intense that it, he almost couldn't stand it, like he

almost physically couldn't stand up.

It brought it almost brought him to his knees and he asked me, do

you know what I felt coming off of the light?

And I'm thinking, my God like, no, what did you feel?

And he said what I felt was love.

And he said I felt a love so tremendous that you, you cannot

even imagine it here on earth. You have no idea how immense it

is and wonderful it is. He said your own mother, take

the most loving person that you know, that their love for you

can't even come close to this. And he said the light started to

dim and a man was walking toward him and all of this love just

pouring off of this man and he's Lawrence said it was around him

and inside of him. It was just all consuming.

And the light dimmed even more and he could see the man's face.

And he said the man walking toward him was Jesus Christ.

And he said Jesus came up to him and he grabbed his hands.

And Lawrence said, I finally knew two things.

He said, I knew two things right away.

He said, I knew I was finally home.

And I knew that I was in the presence of my Savior.

And all he felt was love. And Jesus said, Lawrence, it's

not yet your time. There's still many things I have

for you to do. And boom, he was back in his

body in the doctor's office. And that's when the doctor came

in and said, Mr. Taft, I'm not a religious man, but there's no

medical explanation for you to be alive.

And so I was stunned when he shared all that stuff with me.

I've never heard a story like that in my life.

Now on YouTube, there's channels that talk about this stuff.

There's books like Imagine Heaven.

I had never come across anything even close to this.

And so I was kind of useless the rest of the night.

I mean, I had a hard time talking to people.

I was just so amazed at what I had just heard.

And then I just thought about it every day, all day.

It was on my mind all day for the next couple of weeks.

And I just kept thinking, is it true or not?

Like this guy either died and met Jesus, who is God, or he's a

liar. I mean.

And then one day I was standing outside just looking up at the

sky thinking about this stuff. And I thought, Oh my gosh, wait

a second. I met this guy at the gym that

had something so special about him and he was unlike anybody

else. He just had this goodness about

him and I liked it. I was just so drawn to it and

everything he said seemed to make really good sense.

Then I read this book that doesn't just make good sense, it

seems to make perfect sense which is wild.

Then I meet this total stranger who comes to to my house to mow

the lawn and says God is telling me to talk to you about Jesus.

Then I meet another total stranger at a wedding that says

God is telling me to talk to you about Jesus and says here's a

story where he went to heaven and met Jesus, who is God.

And I thought, Oh my God, I know you now.

You have made yourself known to me, the the very one that I

insisted you cannot know the truth about.

I was a hard agnostic. I thought there could be a God.

You cannot figure this stuff out.

I mean, look around at planet earth.

We're all confused. I just thought, there's no way.

And I just, I just kept saying over and over again, I know you

now. You've made yourself known to

me. And I had tears of joy, man.

I had no conviction of sin. I didn't feel bad for being

lost. I didn't feel bad for the my

behavior as an unbeliever. I just felt joy.

But I also had this sense that the devil had been walking me

around like a dog on a leash and I didn't even know it.

And that pissed me off. So instead of some like white

knuckle attempt to stop sinning, it was like you, I'm never

freaking going back in that cave.

You've had me living in a cave and I'm in the light and I'm

net. Like you couldn't pay me enough

to get back in that cave. And so it was kind of, you know,

when I say it was a radical conversion experience when I

started going to all my friends, like, hey, man, like I need to

talk to you about Jesus. Like we need to talk about the

afterlife. They thought I was nuts.

You became that guy. Yeah, they thought I was nuts.

I remember talking to my butt. I had a a friend that was a big

time drug dealer. I mean, we huge, I'm not talking

small town. I'm talking like legit, like

owning dance clubs, working with crime, like Vietnamese drug

dealers at a big level, guys coming in in the VIP room in

suits once a week. I mean, I'm talking like legit

crazy stuff, people getting killed.

I remember talking to him like, hey, man, I need to talk to you.

God's done something in my life. Are you still doing what you're

doing? And I just, I was just straight

like, dude, you're going to end up in prison, man.

Like on a long enough timeline, you are going to get caught.

We need to talk about your faith.

We need to talk about your beliefs.

Like he thought I was nuts. So anyway, that's what happened.

And then, so this is a really long story of getting into the

Bible college thing. But after I got saved, I met a

guy that was a donor, a very wealthy donor in Houston, who

gave, you know, 7 figures to multiple ministries.

And we met at a fundraiser. And I got to open up for the

fundraiser and share my testimony.

And apologetics was a big part of it.

And it was a fundraiser where Doctor Norman Geisler was the

keynote speaker. Who's my hero in apologetics?

Nobody has written better books on apologetics than Norman

Geisler. So I got to speak and this, this

man comes up to me afterwards saying I want to help you.

And Long story short, he offered to pay for my education with the

caveat, with the caveat that I make a 3.5 GPA or above.

This is somebody who's made nothing but D's and FS my entire

life. And he said, I'm we're going to

write up a one page contract. If you keep a 3.5 GPAI will pay

tuition, books, some discretionary money, this and

that and the other. He said, but if you go 1

semester and do not uphold a 3.5 GPA or above, I'm no longer

obligated to pay for your education.

So I graduated with a 3.98, which is another God story

because you take somebody who's been in special Ed, who's told,

who's been told, you know, like I was going to small classes

with kids with Down syndrome, with kids with all kinds of

issues. And I just developed the idea.

After a while, you're one of the dumb kids, like you're not like

everybody else. And for God to do that to

graduating with highest honors, getting a 3.98 and then getting

a presidential scholarship to go to Dallas Seminary, which is the

highest scholarship they offer. That's a God story too, you

know, but I can look back and say I didn't do any.

I mean, that was just God, God providing that donor, God

providing the conditions, God providing the focus.

I mean, all of it is just a huge God story.

Oh man, that's an incredible story.

There's a few things that stand out I want to dive a little

deeper into. So you'd talked about the kind

of the negative self talk and having to really work to

overcome that is, is that something that went away and

kind of a miraculous way through your conversion or is that

something that you had to work at and process through?

No, I've had to work at it, man, because I think it, it affects

you everywhere, right? It, if I'm married, I've got 3

little girls. You know, the first few years of

my marriage were really tough. I mean, you take somebody who

hasn't grown up in the church like me, with the baggage, being

the only male, being an alpha male.

You know, my dad wasn't around. I had two older sisters, their

dads weren't around. So when things went wrong, I had

to deal with it. So develop some really

dysfunctional ways of relating to people to handling conflict.

So first few years of marriage were were rough because my wife

and I had polar opposite ways of handling conflict.

And so we would get in a fight and then she wouldn't talk to

me. And you want to talk about

negative self talk? I mean, I would just go into a

hole and start drowning and Oh my gosh, this is falling apart.

Like she's never going to, you know, are we going to be OK all

excuse me, all this anxiety. Excuse me over the state of our

relationship, but yeah, negative self talk is a thing.

I think you just have to. And by the way, now I love our

marriage like we've been married for 12 years.

She's my best friend. I loves, I don't just love her,

I like her a lot. We love spending time together.

She's our marriage is wonderful and God used our opposite ways

of relating for good over the years and helped her realize

areas that she wasn't being a peacemaker and being loving

helped me realize where I could relax and let go of control and

be peace, a peacemaker and be loving.

And we love it now. But I think the negative self

talk thing, I think it's just something you kind of have to go

through boot camp with through life.

You have to practice like Paul said, the things you've seen and

heard in me, practice these things.

That's what he told the church. It takes practice.

And so I think with negative self talk, you know, Craig

Rochelle has a great book on this called Winning the War in

Your Mind. And the book, the book lines out

of methodology where you practice, you take some of the

top negative statements or fears that you're used to saying to

yourself first you just got to write them down.

You may not even know what they are.

Get those down and then replace them with something else.

So I have a few, you know, people call them mantras, but I

have a few things I say to myself each day, you know, I

say, you know what, God is good. He's working all things together

for good in my life. My life is not randomly falling

apart because I experienced a lot of brokenness and

dysfunction and lack of security, lack, you know, we

were never had enough money, all kinds of things.

And you bring that into your adulthood.

So that's one of the things I say.

Joshua 1 is big to me. I, I say that almost daily.

Lord, I just thank you that you're with me and you're never

going to fail me. You're going to let me go

through battles. You're not going to prevent the

battles. Josh was the whole book of Josh

was nothing but battles. So why should I expect to just

bypass any difficulty in my life?

So difficulty is going to come. I welcome that, whatever you

think is good, but I know you're with me in it in ways that I

don't understand. And I know you're not going to

fail me and you're not going to leave me and you love me.

So I say stuff like that to myself every day, man.

Yeah, that sounds like quite a journey.

Do you have any advice for somebody else that's struggling

with that self negative self talk or or doubting whether they

can do whatever's in front of them next?

Yeah, I think, I think you need to assess what it what is it

that you're believing? What is it that you're saying?

A lot of people don't vocalize it.

You need to talk to somebody about it, try to distill it down

to a simple thing like you can't just say, well, I, I struggle

with fear. I struggle with things that what

are you afraid of? OK, are you with me?

I would. I knew God had the power, but I

didn't know he would come through.

That's something I struggled with for years in my early

Christian Christianity. I, I know you're all powerful,

but I also know you let some messed up stuff happen in life.

Like you, you do allow death. You do allow businesses to fail.

You do allow this whatever, you know, any negative scenario.

So I had to come to a point to where it was like, I know you

love me and you're, you're going to be loving in my life.

And I've got to trust that, you know?

But yeah, I think you need to, I think you need to vocalize it.

And I think you need to replace it with a true statement.

That's that's faith. Because it's just fear of faith.

I mean, it all comes down to fear of faith.

And if the enemy can get you to be worried and be fearful and

start questioning everything, I mean, he's really got you, you

know? And it just, it just sucks the

joy out of your life too. So yeah, I would encourage

anybody that's dealing with that to write it down on paper.

Try to come up with a simple statement that's clear about

what you fear or what that negative self talk is, whether

it's about you or your relationships or your life or

who God is. A lot of believers aren't mature

enough to just be honest with God.

Like Lord, I'm really struggling with you right now.

I think you suck because you've come through for other people.

We haven't. Like, be honest with God.

He already knows what's in your heart anyway.

That could be a turning point in your relationship right there.

You're not. Going to hurt his feelings.

No, I mean read the psalms like if you need help with that just

read the psalms. It's the most raw form of

communication with God. But yeah, I think writing it

down and then replace it with a true statement and practice

that. Say it to yourself every day.

That's biblical, by the way. It's not just some new age stuff

or something from some self help, but like that is biblical

to tell. Talk to yourself.

I, I read a quote years ago because I got a leadership

degree at the College of Biblical studies and one of the

books we read, 1 phrase in the whole book stuck out to me.

And he said the biggest problem with leaders today is that they

listen to themselves instead of talking to themselves.

So whatever you wake up in the with in the morning, whatever

that natural thought process is, stop.

OK, silence. Here's the truth that I'm going

to tell myself. That takes practice, and that's

normal. Yeah.

Oh, man, that's good. I'm gonna, I'm gonna write that

one down. That's good.

So I can tell kind of your your faith and that background is a

huge part of your story. I'm just fascinated.

How do you go from the ministry track really big into

apologetics in Bible school to starting your own business?

What was the process that led you maybe away from full time

ministry and into ministry through business?

Is that a fairway to word that? Yeah, it was kind of a odd

process because I, I really, I will, I love preaching and

teaching and I, and I think that's just something that I've,

I've done consistently over the years in prisons and churches

and let let a lot of Bible studies, taught a lot of Bible

classes at different churches. And so when I moved to Dallas to

go to Dallas Seminary, the Dallas Seminary, the, the lady

that was head over development fundraising for Dallas Seminary

knew of me and she had a donor that was, he was an elder to

church in Frisco, TX. And they were looking for a

pastor and she connected us and I started preaching at their

church and loved that and thought I'd be doing that for

the rest of my life. But I never really wanted to be

a full time pastor. I just like preaching.

You know, preaching is the easy part.

Preaching is the easy part. Like if you're, you're called to

do that, you know, but it's all the other stuff that's the real

work and the real sacrifice. I think preaching is the fun

part. And so I'm at Dallas Seminary

and I had gotten a job with a ministry called Point of View

Ministries. And I was a fundraiser and one

of the donors that it had cut us a, a good size check.

We were just getting to know each other, having lunch.

And I had just read Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

And I had not been taught anything about money growing up.

We just didn't know. We didn't, we didn't know how to

manage money. My mom didn't know how to manage

money. That's not a hit against her.

She was never taught that. And so when I read Rich Dad,

Poor Dad, it was almost like getting saved a second time.

Like it was that dramatic. To go to Holy Smokes, I know

nothing about money and money's always been a problem.

We grew up poor too. You can make money, you can have

multiple income sources, you can build generational wealth, and

you can use money as a tool. Money's not this big dark cloud

now that just give range trouble on your life.

You can actually use it as a tool to help people, to bless

others, to bless your family. And so I just couldn't stop

thinking about that. And I started praying and I

said, God, I mean, this is life changing.

I don't want to be like the rich dad.

I don't want to be like the poor dad.

I would love to have multiple businesses, multiple streams of

income and have the freedom that comes with that and the ability

to do different things that I can't do if I don't have the

money to do it, like help fund ministries or any anything that

requires money, right? If you don't have money, you

can't do it. And so I meet this donor and we

get to talk and, and she goes, you know, I think you need to

meet these two guys that I, I know they're Christian

entrepreneurs and I just think you need to meet them.

And I didn't know it, but she was an investor in their

startup. And so I meet these two guys.

They were from Springfield, MO and they had started this

company. And Long story short, I started,

I started my first foray into entrepreneurship with their

company. And they had this, it totally

failed, by the way, this business, but they had this,

they had this restaurant app that you would buy.

You download this app on your phone.

There's a picture of my wife. And you'd, if a restaurant had

the app or if they worked with the app, you'd go into the

restaurant and the app was called Spin Streak come almost

like winning streak, but Spin streak, I mean, even the name

wasn't. And you spin this wheel and

you'd win things like half off your order or buy one, get one

or 20% off. So it's a way for the restaurant

to retain customers. So they're selling this thing as

like a business in the box. Like you can be a franchise or,

or, or a dealer of this thing. You own a market and you go sell

it and you sell as many accounts as you want and everything gets

fulfilled at the back office. And they've got the marketing

and the SO PS and the all of it. So to me, that was a low risk

way to be an entrepreneur. Like this is a business in the

box. Somebody else has already

thought up this model. I just sell.

So man, I mean, I'm going I and, and so I talked to this donor

and I said I'd like to become a dealer for this company and I'd

like to have the Dallas market or part of it, but I don't have

the money for this. I'm like, I'm a seminary

student. Seminary students don't have

money. They're too busy paying for for

seminary. And so she funded that and was

like, look, I'll give you this as a loan.

I'll pay for your dealership fee, get you started and you pay

it back. So I get started and I'm going

on lunch breaks from work. I'm going in restaurants,

walking in. Is the owner here?

I'd love to shake hands with the owner.

And I'm telling him about how I can help him retain customers

and get new ones. I'm going on Saturdays and

walking in, same thing. I mean, I'm just trying to do

whatever it takes to make this thing work.

And I'm thinking if I could get up to 50 to 70 customers on

monthly recurring revenue, this would be a big blessing to my

family. So my wife was on board and

she's watching me leave on Saturdays and go do this.

And after a few months, it just started to fall apart.

They started having problems with the app, started having

problems with other dealers not selling the app.

There were glitches. Restaurants would use it for a

few months and then want to cancel.

It just became a huge headache. So then these guys pivoted with

like entrepreneurs do, and they're like, all right, let's

just kill the app. Like, it sucks.

It's not going to be what we wanted it to be, but we figured

out how to sell banner ads online.

These things are, you know, you know, millions and millions and

millions of dollars are spent on these every month.

We're going to design banner ads, we're going to manage them.

We're going to charge companies a fee.

Now we can work with anybody, not just restaurants.

So I started selling banner ads and then they started to sell

websites and then they started to sell SEO services and then

they just became a full blown digital marketing company.

And I think at their peak they had over 300 customers on

monthly recurring revenue. And so they did OK, and that was

OK for me as well. It never became like anything

really big. But that gave me a taste of not

only what is entrepreneurship look like because I got to watch

these guys grow this thing. I got to watch them deal with

issues. I got to watch them make the

pivot. But it also helped me realize

like this isn't that hard. Like these guys are not

geniuses. They're just normal guys.

And they came up with an idea and they kind of built the plane

while they were flying. I mean, they didn't, they didn't

have the plane built and then they took off.

They didn't know what they were doing.

Like they all they knew was what next step to take.

And so that got me thinking too, like, man, I could start my own

company, you know, And that that's kind of how all that

started. And then we came to a point to

where my wife and I were both getting master's degrees.

And so I'm finishing my master's degree at Dallas Seminary.

She was just starting a master's degree, a dual master's, and we

had a conversation where it's we're dealing with the issue.

The issue is, OK, if I graduate, we can't both afford to get our

master's degrees. If I graduate, I get a degree

and nothing changes. If she graduates, she gets a

degree and gets a massive pay raise.

So we're like, OK, let's put Dallas Seminary on hold.

Let's let you finish your degree.

And I just kept focusing on the world of entrepreneurship.

She finished her degree and I just never went back to to

Dallas Seminary and I only had two classes left to graduate.

Oh man, do you think you'll ever go back?

Probably not, man. It's like at this point I've

studied so much, the only reason I would go back is for a piece

of paper. Yeah.

And so, but yeah, but also, you know, just a mindset shift in

that occurred as well, where you hear people say full time

ministry all the time, which is a phrase that's not in the

Bible, but people say it all the time.

They'll say I was called a full time ministry or oh, are you in

full time ministry? And so I started thinking

through that because I heard every day you go to Chapel at

Dallas Seminary or every day you go to class at Dallas Seminary,

you have to go to Chapel. And I would hear professors say

this, you know, when I was called the full time ministry

and I started to have a real problem with it because anything

I hear, I have to wait a second. Where is it in Scripture?

And so I started thinking, wait a second.

We're all ambassadors for Christ.

No matter what we do, whether you're a plumber or whether

you're Billy Graham, we, we're all believe, you know, priests,

we're all a royal priesthood, a Kingdom.

We're all new creatures. God's working through all of us.

There's multiple gifts, there's multiple ministries.

And so I developed the belief that we're all, if you're a

Christian, you're in full time ministry.

Like you don't clock out of your Christianity, You don't wake up

and go to, you know, while I'm at Starbucks, I'm not a

Christian, but when I go to church, I'm a Christian.

And so I look at business just as a ministry platform, like I'm

a light to the 700 plus roofing company owners that are in our

group. I'm open about my faith.

Then when I get home I have a ministry to my wife as her

husband to wash her with the water of the word, to encourage

her and the Lord to love her well.

And then I've got a ministry to my 3 girls.

I've got a ministry to my brothers in Christ I meet with

on Friday mornings and I pray every morning that like Paul

said in Romans, one that we'd walk away mutually encouraged by

one another's faith, both theirs and mine.

So any relationship I have is ministry.

It's a chance for Christ to shine through as long as I'm,

you know, an open and willing vessel.

So and I and I, I, I get asked this like we went to a

fundraiser and a guy had known me from Northwest Bible Church

where I preached for about a year and he said, Oh, are you

still in full time ministry? I was like, well, yeah, I'm a

Christian, right? Like, I don't, I'm not checking

out of my Christianity at any point today that I'm aware of.

And he was like, oh, yeah. And it was awkward, but I'm

like, stop throwing this phrase around.

That's great. Oh, man, I love that you've been

encouragement to me just this afternoon here.

So. Oh, man.

Oh, wait. So you're almost finished

seminary, Two classes left. Start working on this restaurant

app that turns into website banners.

How do you get from selling websites to the roofing

industry? Yeah, so the the digital

marketing company got under new ownership.

They brought some partners on board.

It's kind of a sad story. The new partners they brought on

or did kind of a hostile takeover of the company.

They outlawed the founders and took the company over and they

fired me right away. I was the highest paid employee

at the company and they're like, he's gone.

So that was catastrophic to me. We weren't ready for that

financially. That was one of the lowest

points I'd had in my life as a believer.

I mean, I won't say what I was saying to God in my garage as I

was yelling at God saying where are you?

What are you doing? You know, like you knew this was

coming, but God used that for good too.

Really, really, really good. And so I ended up applying for a

job like I met through church and it was in healthcare

software sales. And I did that for two years and

God really used that for good, even though it was really hard.

Battled a lot of negative self talk with that because that was

a start up as well. So no, to anyone listening to

this, if you want stability, don't work for a start up.

That was a start up as well. And I was in sales and they had

sales goals and I just, you know, I hit the goals and then

not the next quarter. And it was just an emotional

roller coaster. And so I got so sick of that

that I started looking for what else to get into.

And a buddy of mine owned a roofing company and I reached

out to him and I was like, man, I'm looking for something else

to get into. You know, I've seen you a couple

of times a year at Christmas parties.

Isn't that you always seem really laid back?

And you're talking about how you're taking the month of

December off and going hunting in this net.

Like, what does it look like to get into roofing?

I would just like to talk to you about that.

And Long story short, I started selling roofs for him.

And my, you know, my brain just couldn't get away from the idea

of, OK, well, what kind of business could we start in

roofing other than selling roofs for this for him?

And that's when we came up with the idea of the limitless CEO

groups. OK.

And so that started as like a a business coaching organization.

It didn't start as the GPO. Is that right?

Right. Yeah, It was more of a Have you

ever heard of EOS Worldwide? No.

EOS is just a it's just a way to systemize your business.

There's a book called Traction by Gino Wickman.

It's, it's one of the most boring books you'll ever read,

but it's, it's like a business manual on how to set your

business up to where it's predictable, repeatable.

You got the right people in the right seats, you got processes,

you got scorecards, you got planning.

It's just all there, a whole system for you.

And so I became an implementer. I, I went through the coaching

program and became an EOS implementer.

And it's, it's applicable to any business.

And so we started teaching this to roofing owners.

They got books, they got workbooks, and we did training

calls every week. And then that's where just, and

I actually had lunch with my former employer from the

healthcare software company and told him I got into roofing.

And his first response was, oh, man, you should start a GPO.

I'm like, I don't know about that, you know, And I just could

not shake that statement. And I kept thinking, man, what?

Like, what would that look like? And that's when we started

asking our members if they'd ever heard of a GPO.

Yeah, OK, interesting. So how does that start up?

Look, I can imagine that's got to be a pretty daunting task to

you got the whole chicken and egg thing going on of, you know,

it's hard to get members until you have deals and it's hard to

get the deals until you have members.

But how do you go about doing that?

Yeah, it's impossible to, it will.

For one, it's really hard business model to start.

It's a great business model years down the road once you've

been established, but it's one of the hardest businesses to

start because there's no cash flow up front.

And like you said, how do you build a group if you don't have

any deals? And how do you get a deal if you

don't have a group? Well, it just so happened

because God works through relationships and God had all of

this planned all along. You know, I'm constantly

surprised by the good things God has planned that I, they're not

even on my radar. Like it's stuff that I never

dreamed about. So it just so happened that one

of the guys in our Limitless CEO group had started a roofing

supply company in Texas because he didn't like his local

supplier and he thought, I can do it better.

He's a really interesting guy from South Africa, solid

Christian guy. All he does now is travel all

over the world and dig water, you know, fund water wells for

his his nonprofit. And he said, you know, he said,

I started my supply company and then I was approached by SRS

Distribution, which is one of the big three suppliers in

roofing. And he said, I, you know, they

acquired my business. And in the process, I got to

know Dan Tinker, the CEO. And he said, I think this is a

great idea. What if I just emailed Dan and

let's just see what happens. And so he emailed Dan Tinker,

the CEO of SRS, which just got acquired by Home Depot, and he

emailed Dan. The e-mail was perfect.

It said, hey, Dan, this is Doss. His name is Doss Rousseau from

South Africa. He said, hey, Dan, this is Doss.

I'm in a group called Limitless with Dylan McCabe, and he has a

business idea I think you need to hear about.

Just completely lifted vague, you know?

And then Dan emailed back within 30 minutes and he said, hey, I'm

on vacation right now, but I'd love to meet with you guys.

Why don't we plan something for August?

And this was like, I think this was May at the time.

So I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, like we've got this idea now.

We've got to get an LLC form. We got to get a website built,

We got to get a real plan together here.

And so that was some healthy pressure.

Again, just like having to be forced to get a 3.5 GPA or above

in college. Here was another pressure point

where it's like, OK, put this business together.

We hired A consultant right away that was in healthcare that I'd

known and she was head of a GPO in healthcare.

We're like, OK, how do we do this?

How do we get started? How do the, how does the

financial structure look? How do we help members?

How do was a company profitable? We put the whole thing together,

built a whole presentation and I went to SRS's headquarters and

which is in McKinney, TX and went to their big meeting room

and sitting at this massive like 30 + 30 person conference room

table and right across from me as the CEO of SRS who makes

deals for a living, it's all he does.

Yeah. And then their head of mergers

and acquisitions who does nothing but negotiate deals.

And then their VP of sales who does nothing but negotiate deals

with the biggest roofing companies in the US.

And so I'm completely outgunned, you know, And it's me with 0

experience. And then my friend Dos, my

roofing owner friend is just sitting there and he's just

quiet. He has nothing to say, right?

Yeah. And so I pitched them this idea

and they tried to poke 1000 holes in my idea.

But the thing God had done in my time in healthcare, after

calling on physicians for two years, trying to sell them

enterprise level software that will train you to control a

conversation and not allow people to take it over.

Because some of the physicians I called on, not all but some,

were some of the most arrogant, difficult people to talk to I've

ever met because they've been to school longer than anyone else.

They're making more money than anybody else in the room.

And a lot of these physicians had very successful practices.

So the ego was just out of control, but they didn't know

business, right? They've been clinically trained,

and I've got a business solution for a reason.

It streamlines, it brings efficiency.

It saves physicians enormous amounts of money.

SI would challenge them on that. And I learned how to say, I get

that. But what about these three

questions? Like, what are you doing here?

How are you solving this problem?

Who's accountable for that? Have you checked on this?

And after a while, like, oh, they realize I don't have a grip

on my practice. And, and so that helped because

I remember the point in the meeting with those guys at SRS,

I was like, look, everything you're saying is in the

presentation. Let's go through it.

Hold your questions till the end and let's just figure out if

this is a win win. If it's not, fine.

But let's not, you know, we're kind of all over the map here.

And so Dan Tinker was phenomenal.

Like as Aceo, he's like, let's look at it.

He was just curious and interested and and he wasn't

arrogant. He was easy to talk to and so we

went through the presentation and then he started asking a lot

of questions like, how would you roll this out?

Who would this be for? What if this scenario?

What if that scenario, what are you going to do in this event?

And he just kept going. And then at one point we, we met

for two hours. It was like a 2 hour episode of

Shark Tank. At one point he goes, what would

we need to do to launch by January?

And I remember sitting in my seat going, Oh my gosh, he's

going for it. And for the next 45 minutes we

talked about how to launch together.

And I walked out of there and thought, Oh my gosh, we just got

a deal with one of a multi billion dollar roofing supplier

and we had to negotiate over the next few months and get a

contract drafted and all that stuff.

But that's how it happened. They took a chance knowing that

we didn't have a group, but they saw the value in getting more

market share and helping roofing companies more.

And they said yes. And that was the first big

domino that fell. And then we started getting

deals with vendors for everything from from general

liability insurance to lead generation to anything up a

roofing company spends money on. Wow, that's pretty cool story.

All the systems you guys put in place, you, you set the meeting

in May, you got to be there in August, just whirlwind figuring

stuff out how many of those systems, those ideas, those

processes are still the way you do things today.

The biggest one, I'm I'm more of the visionary type.

There's a, there's a book called rocket fuel that gets into

visionary versus integrator. And I remember reading the first

chapter where it talks about the visionary.

I'm like, man, this is like, you could just insert my name.

I mean, I'm great at taking things from zero to three out of

10 steps to completion. I'm terrible at steps four

through 10. Like do not give it to me.

I will screw it up. I will not, I will frustrate

you. And so the biggest thing that I

practice is the visionary part, the ideas, the what is this,

what is this strategy look like at a big picture level for the

next year, for the next two, for the next three.

But I've got guys around me who are more integrators who are in

in the nuts and bolts of how we get there.

What does it look like on a weekly and monthly basis?

More operations minded. OK.

I just know a lot of businesses when they get started up man it,

it is a whirlwind of just putting everything together and

you had this great vision and six months later you might be

successful, but nothing looks the way you thought it was going

to look. So I was curious if that was the

case or if you guys kind of nailed it the first time.

No, that's totally been the case with us.

I mean, we've had to pivot and evolve and, and change

direction. And I mean so much when we first

started the group, I thought, man, excuse me, you know the the

other GP OS that I was familiar with, the ones in healthcare,

some of these buying groups are huge.

Thousands and thousands of members and I thought, you know,

we're going to start this in roofing and we're going to have

hundreds of members in the first month.

We had 00. Like everybody we talked to is

like, what is this? What's a GPOI finally stopped

using that phrase because nobody understood what it meant.

You know, what's the catch? Like, you're going to give me,

you're going to save me money. But like, how does this work?

Are you a supplier? People were confused about

whether we had a warehouse where we were selling roofing

materials at a discount. That first year was rough, man.

I mean, I think we got like 50 members or something the first

year. And then we decided, OK, we've

been charging for this thing and we charge them and they get

access to a mastermind group as well and all this stuff.

And then we thought, we need to open this up for free, you know,

like we're charging people for something they don't even

understand. So we opened it up for free and

that helped. But really not until this last

year, like not until 2025 did we really start to take off.

And that's in our third year. So no, it has not been easy.

You know, God doesn't roll out the red carpet just because you

have a good idea or just because he's leading you into something.

It's you have to go through the same challenges everybody else

does. Yeah, that was that was one of

the questions I had on my list for you specifically.

Hey, you've been through some tough stuff of growing up the

only male in a home with a single mom and being labeled as

learning disabilities and being fired now building a business.

What what keeps you going when things get tough?

What what helps you push through?

And yeah, three years of grinding it out before you get

the membership going and make things happen.

What? What keeps you going?

Yeah, I mean, for me the biggest thing is prayer.

I mean, I, I just my relationship with God is the

anchor and I, I, I pray that I lean on prayer for everything

just because I don't, I read the word to I mean, I was, I read

the word every, every morning while I eat breakfast.

But I my go to for peace and for direction is prayer mainly.

And I asked the Lord what you know, is there something you

want me to see about this? Is there anything you want me to

believe about this situation and any thoughts that come to my

mind? And I don't hear an audible

voice or anything, but if an impression comes to my mind or a

thought, and sometimes I'll like recently I've been, we've been

dealing with something that a challenge with the business and

I'm like, what do you want me to see about this guy?

And I and I, the Joshua chapter one just comes to my mind very

clearly, you know, And so I'm reading that and it's like, you

need to be strong, you need to be courageous, you need to walk

by faith. And, but I felt a pretty, I felt

a conviction when we started this, that it was something that

would be big and meaningful. And that I, I just remember

praying God, if you give us a deal, like if we can just get a

deal with the supplier, that'll be confirmation that you're

doing something huge because I have no right to get a deal with

any supplier. I'm from the outside of the

industry. Nobody knows who I am.

And for me to sit across from the CEO of SRS Distribution and

talk about how to work together is nuts.

Like, to me, that's just insane. And so when that happened, I

realized God is doing something and he's not going to stop.

I mean, he's not going to just go, OK, I got you a deal with

SRS. Now I'm pulling back.

Hope you guys figure it out. And I've just always, I've just

always had that thought, like God has started something here

and he's going to finish it. And yeah, there's ups and downs.

And like any startup, it's like you have to figure out how to

manage cash flow. You have to figure out how to

pay your employees and figure out the hard way that you hired

the wrong person. And then you're trying to find

the right people, the right strategy, the right marketing.

It's all hard. I mean, it's all just one giant

challenge, one challenge after another.

But I still have the conviction that he's doing something good.

And we're finally, after three years, we're hitting the tipping

point to where things are happening in the business to

where we'll be way stronger next year financially.

We'll have a lot more members, will have more options for the

members. We've got over 700 companies in

the group now. And so I'm glad.

I mean, I'm glad we persevered, but it's taken 3 1/2 years.

Yeah. You just can't give up, man.

That's it. Like it's that simple.

You just can't quit. What What has been the most

difficult challenge you've faced in the last three years?

What was the one that you lost the most sleep over came the

closest to giving up. I think the hardest thing we've

been through is, you know, we, we have these strategic

relationships with our suppliers and we've got SRS and QXO and we

got to, you know, you have to, we have to make sure it's a win,

win partnership. Every year we have to walk

through, OK, what does our structure look like?

What can Limitless offer its members in the form of savings,

things that reduce their overhead?

How does Limitless make money and how is it helpful to the

supplier? And one year we, the

negotiations became pretty intense and we kind of locked

horns. I personally locked horns with

somebody at SRS on the leadership team and it looked

like we may not be able to, to figure out how to work together.

And I thought, man, I'm going to see this thing that I started

that I felt led to start that God has done some big stuff.

And it looks like this whole thing may just completely fall

apart. And that was hard, man.

That was really hard, but it worked out and it became even

better after that. And it's been better ever since.

So, you know, even when it seems like God is not there and is not

helping, usually that's the time where he is doing stuff behind

the scenes. You've just gotta, you just

gotta wait because moves are happening on the chess board

that you don't understand because you're not a grandmaster

chess player. Yeah.

All you're looking at is I just want to move this pawn forward.

Why won't this pawn go forward? You know, but I, I like chess.

If you watch a grandmaster play chess and you don't know how to

play chess, the moves they're making make no sense.

And, and, and so that was a big lesson too, just to realize,

look, your security is not in a process.

Your security is not in how well you handle something.

Your securities in, in, in Jesus.

And he's going to, he's going to get you through stuff.

Awesome, awesome. That's great.

I love that answer. Well, I want to step back and

take a break from kind of normal questions here just for a

second. We do a special segment.

We try to do 1 each show and have listeners write in and ask

questions kind of specific to you and your expertise.

So I've got two of these submitted by Frank.

So the first one, if you weren't running Limitless, what would

you be doing instead? Man, I'd probably be doing some

sort of men's ministry full time, just taking guys on hikes,

talking about life, talking about marriage, talking about

faith, you know, believers, unbelievers, just having

conversations about God, hopefully in some beautiful

place like Colorado or Montana. Yeah, awesome.

That's a great answer. I like that.

And then the other one, I know you're still kind of getting it

figured out 3 1/2 years in, but if you had to start over from

Ground Zero to try to build the business that you've built,

where would you start and what would you do different?

Probably would have raised money because a lot of startups raise

money and the reason they raise money is because again, money is

a tool. And if you don't have that tool,

you can't, you know, if you want to dig a trench, it's way easier

with a shovel. Well, you got to buy that shovel

at a store. If you want to make it even

easier to dig a trench, you need to pay, you need to pay somebody

to use some heavy equipment like a backhoe or whatever to, to dig

the trench even faster. That takes more money.

So we did it the hard way. We didn't have a shovel.

We didn't have anything. We, we just bootstrap this thing

and I think it would have been way easier if we would have just

given up some equity and raised some money and had some runway

financially to hire people, spend money on marketing, stuff

like that. I think, I think, and I think in

the next thing that I do, I'll probably do that.

I mean, I'll either fund it myself somehow or raise money.

I don't. I don't want to be in a

situation where I'm bootstrapping a company with no

money. That's the hard way.

OK, Yeah, interesting. OK, well, the the whole GPO

thing is new to me as a contractor.

I think talking with you is kind of the first time I've been

introduced to that. So can you give us a little bit

of an overview, you know, what is the advantage of a GPO to a

supplier? And then how in the world are

you giving this away for free? What?

How do you set that up so that the contractor isn't paying for

it? Yeah.

So the suppliers that they need the same thing every business

needs, they need customers and they need to keep those

customers. So a group like ours with over

700 companies, they have an opportunity to work with our

group and to gain market share in our group.

And so we have a relationship with our, our members.

We're constantly giving them trainings and resources and

stuff like that. And we're giving them discounts

on all kinds of things. So the suppliers get in there

are in our group to, to be a blessing to our members, to help

our members and offer them, you know, exclusive things through

limitless to the roofing contractor.

It just makes you more profitable because you've got

overhead, you've got, you're paying for accounting, you're

paying for shingles, you're paying for marketing and lead

Gen. you're, you're paying for all kinds of things.

And we can reduce your cost of business on all of those things.

And so if we can reduce your cost of business on all the

things you're spending money on, that makes your net profit

stronger. It makes every job more

profitable. So we basically just make more

profitable roofing companies. And it's like a, it's almost

like a Costco membership. You join, you save.

It's that simple. But the difference between US

and Costco is we're not a warehouse.

You're not buying from us. It's more like you get the perks

of the membership that you keep everything the same on your end.

You still buy from your supplier the same way.

You still have your same sales reps.

All of that stays the same. It's just you get to go in and

say I'm a limitless member and you automatically get certain

things that you wouldn't normally get.

OK. I think it's more like triple

AI. Haven't looked into AAA but

apparently that's what AAA is like.

You join AAA and you just get discounts on all kinds of stuff.

Yeah. OK.

And so are you guys primarily focused on material and product

or are you doing you know, software and accounting and and

that kind of stuff as well? Yeah, all that stuff.

Anything that a roofing company spends money on, we can reduce

their cost of business and not just with any vendors either.

I mean we've tried to really pick the some of the best

vendors in the industry like our our bookkeeping slash accounting

vendor is. I mean I would be really

surprised if somebody could be more helpful than him, offer

more value and be more of a thought partner than than him.

He's got a company called One for the Books and he's amazing.

He's our fractional CFO. He does financial strategy and

planning with us and he just does not drop balls ever.

So he's a Unicorn. I mean, he's really, his

strengths are so unusual with this stuff.

So we want our members to work with them like get a grip on

your books, your cash flow management, your financial

strategy, your job costing your all of it.

So that's the goal is to we want to save you money, but we also

want to connect you with the right partners.

Through your whole leadership journey and entrepreneurial

journey, what is something that you wish you would have learned

earlier that would have maybe changed how things went for you?

You know, I think relationships is it is everything.

And so I think that the more that you can focus on the health

of your relationships, the better.

The more you can focus on helping others, serving others,

being a blessing to them, the the better.

If you start something and you're reaching out to people

and saying, hey, I have this new thing, I want you to check out

you, you've already lost. That's like, help me.

You know, I need you to help me versus a relationship, a shift

in relationship, which is like a, a servant leader mindset.

I'm here to help you. I'm here to do whatever I can to

elevate your situation, whether it benefits me or not that

that's a heart issue, but that changes your relationships.

And the cool thing about it is when you start navigating your

relationships like that, you're going to get more help.

You're going to get more customers, you're going to get

more partnerships or whatever it is your advancement of your

mission. And so I, I wish I had really, I

mean, I've read books on that, but I wish I'd really made that

the purpose early on. Because the challenge when

you're in a start up, you have to make money and you have to

you, you, you, you can't not make money.

So every interaction you have, if I've got something that cost,

you know, $3000 a year to sell, and I'm at a roofing conference

at a booth and you stop by my booth, I want you to buy my

product. So you have to almost put that

aside and say, OK, I want you to buy my product, but I don't care

if you do or not. How can I help you?

Maybe my product's not perfect for you, but I want to learn

about you. I want to find out what your

challenges are. And maybe there's another vendor

here at the conference that I need to connect you with because

that's really the dominant priority for you right now.

And so when you have that mindset that you're just here to

help other people, you're going to do way better.

Your relationships are going to be better, but you've got to let

go. And if you're a Christian, you

should be able to do that. You should be able to say, look,

Lord, you're my provider. I want to be a blessing to

others. I'm going to leave whatever

comes my way. I'm going to leave that up to

you. But I want to help others.

I want to serve others and I'm going to trust you to provide

for me. And it's it really frees you up.

Yeah. Oh, man, that's great.

I think we can definitely see that in our business as well as

sometimes the best answer is, you know, I'm not able to help

you, but let me point you towards somebody that can or you

know, yeah, we've, we've even turned down new jobs because we

find a cheaper way to do it than what the customer wanted.

And hey, we can solve your problem and you don't have to

pay us to do it. We're just going to help you out

so. That's great.

No kidding. Oh, oh, this is 1 I I love.

It's interesting to me. There's a few things that's been

true for me. Is there something significant

that through leadership and business and building a business

from from the ground start up with without the capital, you

wish you would have had to kind of building it into a success?

Is there something that you've changed perspective on how you

look at it or you know have seen something from the other side

that has really changed your mind about something?

Yeah, You know, it comes back to who you decide to team up with.

If you're, if you're going to run a triathlon and you want to

get ready for it and you've never run a triathlon before,

which is a huge undertaking. I've never run a triathlon.

I'm never going to. I'm not a runner.

I like to lift weights. I like to do.

I like to lift a heavy sandbag around.

I love throwing weight around, but I'm not a runner.

I'm a temp 64245. My body is not built for

running. I run like a 12 minute mile.

But if I were going to run a triathlon, I would go talk to

successful triathletes. I'd go talk to guys with an

Ironman tattoo on their calf. I wouldn't talk to my buddy

who's a gamer who sits on his couch and is 50 lbs overweight

drinking a Coke every night. But people do that in business.

Like you surround yourself with people who are not qualified to

do whatever you need them to do with, with excellence to just

crush it. And so that would be my

challenge to anybody. Lesson I've learned the hard

ways. If you're going to do a

business, whether it's people you hire or people you partner

with, which is a huge commitment to be a business partner with

somebody, make sure that you know their strengths.

Make sure that they are going to be excellent at that thing.

Make sure that it's not just out of convenience or because

they're your friend or whatever. You need to make sure that that

person is uniquely gifted and wired to do the thing you need

them to do because the right person makes all the difference

and the wrong person makes all the difference.

And when you get rid of that wrong person, you're going to be

freed up so much. And when you bring in the right

person to do a job or to team up with you in some way, whether

it's a ministry or a business or whatever it, I mean, it's game

changer. There's a really good book on

that too, called by Doctor Ben Hardy called who, Not how, who,

not how? Because everybody tries to

think, well, how am I going to do this?

How am I going to do that? I'm in residential roofing.

I want to scale into commercial how?

It's not a how question, it's a who question.

You need to find the right who, the person who's already done

it, is comfortable with it, can do it in their sleep, and ask

them to come team up with you and let them run with that.

Right. So don't talk to overweight

gamers about how to be a triathlete and don't talk to

people who don't know what they're doing, haven't done it

before, about how to do something.

Team up with the right people, people that are going to thrive

with a proven track record. And that last phrase is critical

with a proven track record. That's one of the biggest

lessons I've learned in the last four years.

Yeah, there's a lot of people that talk a big game and having

a track record behind them makes a difference.

So yeah, especially in today's world as social media.

And you can put out whatever front or whatever face you want,

but unless you've got something behind it, it doesn't mean much.

So yeah. Awesome.

I think maybe I know the answer to this, but did you have a, a

major turning point, kind of a, a big point where you're, you're

grinding, you're pushing, you're fighting and building this

business? And it's like, oh, we, we made

it. We, we kind of got over a

hurdle. We, we got the, the rock to the

top of the hill sort of thing where you started to build some

momentum. And then when was that?

I mean, that's just been happening this year really.

You know, we got, we streamline our processes.

We made it way early, easier for a roofing company to join our

group. I didn't realize it, but we were

just kind of making it hard. We were adding a lot of steps to

the process. We made that easier.

We got some marketing dialed in on Facebook.

That's been huge. And we, we, we brought some a

new partner on board and that's been game changer.

So. Yeah, just having the right

person on your team and getting some systems dialed in.

But we're just now experiencing that.

It's just now feeling like some relief is coming after 3 1/2

years. OK.

Well, I hope it continues to grow and take off.

Yeah, I know. Part of your story was, you

know, you lost your job at one point in time because of

bringing in some partners and kind of a takeover in a

business. And now you're running a

business with partners. You know, you spoke a little bit

about making sure you have the right people and the right

skills. But somebody that's starting up

a business with a a business partner, what advice do you have

to put the right structures in place, make sure you have the

right people to make sure you have a a good fit?

Yeah, You know, I probably, I probably would just say it's,

it's a little bit if you ask people, should I partner with

one of my friends? Half the people you talk to like

do not ever partner with friends or family.

And then you're going to talk to the other half and they're going

to say, man, I partnered with one of my friends and it was the

best thing ever. So I think it just takes a lot

of prayer. But I would say whoever you

partner with, whether it's a close friend or whatever, you

need to have a partnership agreement that clearly outlines

responsibility, accountability, what each partner brings to the

table and some stipulations in there where it's like, OK, well,

what if you, what if you start in the business and a year or

two later you decide you don't really want to do it anymore and

you still own 50% of the company.

Well, depending on how your partnership agreement is

written, you may not be able to that you know, that other

partner may be able to go do something else and start another

company or work for somebody else.

And you're kind of saddled with the entire weight of the company

all on your own, operating on an island, and there's nothing you

can do. So make sure you got a great

attorney. The devil's in the details.

So make sure you've got a partnership agreement that

outlines where there's stipulations and accountability

and consequences. If somebody, you know, basically

breaches that contract, agree that partnership agreement,

whether it's through a character issue or commitment issue or

whatever it might be. You got to be smart about this

stuff, man. You got to pay a good attorney

and you got to pay him well. OK, that's some great advice.

That's I've always been afraid of ever bringing on a partner

doing partnership because I've seen it go go poorly.

So it was encouraging to hear you open to the idea and welcome

it even after having suffered the hands of it.

So, yeah, well, my favorite question, man, we dove a lot

into your background and your faith.

I know this is a big part of it, but you're, you're obviously a

man of faith and that's an important thing to you.

Could you speak specifically to maybe how that has affected you

as a leader and how you've shaped shaped your business,

shaped relationships with employees?

What does that look like kind of in the office?

And, you know, how does your faith play out as a leader in

your business? Yeah, it's made a big difference

on my relationships. And I keep going back to that

word. But as an unbeliever, I I did

not have healthy relationships. I had a small circle of friends,

couldn't maintain a healthy romantic relationship.

You know, I had a different girlfriend every three or four

months. I just didn't know how to get

along with people. And it was also really arrogant,

you know, spent a lot of time in the gym and thought that I was,

you know, Mr. Tough Guy and just just had a real ego problem.

And so when I got saved, God, God started bringing people into

my life. Thank God, started bringing

people around me to mentor me and disciple me to help me

realize, hey, man, you need to chill out.

Like, you're not more important than everybody here.

The opinions you have are not more important.

You need to learn some humility. You need to learn how to be

quick to, you know, slow to speak, slow to anger, quick to

listen. You need to be a good listener

and take a genuine interest in other people and get to know

people. Like when you're around people,

are you even asking them about themselves and what they're up

to and what they're interested in, what they're?

Are you taking any time to get to know them at all?

And I wasn't, you know, I got saved and went straight into

teacher mode and you were there for me to tell stuff.

And that's just such a lopsided way to live.

It's so warped. And so God really changed that.

And, and that's really the biggest thing that God did in my

life at Dallas Seminary. I, I really don't think I went

to Dallas Seminary to learn more theology.

I went to a great Bible college, learned a ton, and even had to

read some of the same books at Dallas Seminary.

Don't get me wrong, Dallas Seminary is way more intense,

it's way more work, but I it's another God story that I got.

I I moved to Dallas Seminary purely on faith.

I didn't have any money to pay for seminary, I didn't have any

way to pay for rent and I tried to apply for all these different

jobs. The only job I got was a

security type position at a church where it was for

students. Really you just sit at a desk

and read and get paid for it. And that was like 1520 hours a

week Max. But I felt led to go to Dallas

Seminary And I just, every time I prayed about it, I would just

get the thought, just go, just go.

And I and I felt like I was losing my mind.

So I'm like, God, this doesn't make any sense.

I don't have any money for school.

Every time I talk to somebody about it and they conversation

goes to how are you going to pay for that?

And I got so tired of saying, I don't know, I just tried to

avoid the the topic. And so I drive to Dallas

Seminary on faith. I do not have enough money for

the first month's tuition. On the way to Dallas Seminary,

from Houston to Dallas, my truck breaks down on the side of the

road with steam coming out of the hood and the engine had

blown. And I remember standing on the

side of the road saying, OK, God, like I've either runway

ahead of you, I'm outside of your will.

And this is a huge mistake because nothing's going right.

I haven't been able to get any job I wanted.

I haven't been able to secure any money.

And now my truck is broken down on the side of the road.

Or this is one of the biggest tests of my Christian faith that

I've ever had. And so I got up to Dallas

Seminary. I had some buddies come pick me

up and take me up there. I sold my truck for like 3

grand. It was useless.

It was just for parts and I got up to Dallas Seminary and the

job came up for apartment manager and I applied for the

job and through God's Providence got the job, even though I've

never managed an apartment building before and they never

gave that job to a first semester student before.

And overnight, overnight I went from struggling daily.

I was praying daily, God, how am I going to buy groceries?

God, how it was so stressful, man.

It was rough. Overnight I went from not having

enough money to having free tuition because I was full time

at Dallas Seminary as an employee, free rent because I

was apartment manager and I had my own apartment and a salary.

Everything. The entire burden was lifted

away all at once. And I just remember thinking,

wow, God, you had this plan the whole time.

And I was so stressed out. And then, and then the way God

used that is he didn't just help me financially.

When it's your job to interact with 400 other people on a daily

basis who all know you by name, other seminary students, you

know, I moved to Dallas as a kind of a Pharisee.

I thought I knew more than anybody else.

I thought I was holier than anybody else.

I thought I was doing more ministry than anybody else.

I mean, I was really unteachable, arrogant, you know,

intense, hard to be around. And one by one, I would interact

with these other residents and God would be like, I would just

have this thought like, man, look at that guy, He's so

different than you. And look at how God worked in

his life. Look at how God's using him.

Oh, look at her. Look at her the way she got

saved in her story. And look at this guy from, you

know, the Bahamas. And look at this guy from India

and look at this guy from the, you know, played football in

college. And I mean, just one after the

next. God was like, look at the

diversity in my body, man. None of these people are like

you and I love them all. And they're all being used by me

in different ways. And you've got this cookie

cutter way you think it looks to be faithful to me and you're

it's so flawed. And then I had to spend hours

and hours and hours with all these residents and, and, and I

knew it was an issue. So I was praying a lot about it.

I was praying, God, please teach me how to love people well,

because I don't know how to do that.

And God really used my time at Dallas Seminary to where by the

time I was done, I actually loved being around people and

had a genuine interest in people, like really enjoyed

getting to know them. And that was a foreign

experience to me, like prior to being at Dallas Seminary and God

doing that work. So that's the biggest way he's

changed my life is, is enabling me to love people and take a

genuine interest in people and be humble too.

Like there's no boasting, there's no, there's no

superiority and there's no need to prove yourself.

Like that's such a thing of the world, to be able to show

yourself as more impressive in one way or another.

Yeah. Oh man, that's great.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

So this has been awesome. I love hearing about your

business and your journey. We have one classic segment.

I know you're not a a trades practitioner, but we still got

to ask the cordless tool debate. If you got to grab a cordless

tool, what brand are you reaching for?

Man, I mean, Milwaukee's great, but I, I'm a woodworker and so

if you want to talk track saws and you want to talk diversity

among tools, I mean, I think it's really hard to beat Makita,

man. They're all set up.

I mean, they've just got an incredible lineup of tools.

So I'm a big Makita fan. Awesome, awesome.

Well, thank you. I really appreciate it and this

really has been a pleasure for me.

I've enjoyed chatting with you and hearing your story and it's

really encouraged me and given me a lot to think about and some

ways that I can grow as a leader and a man of God and man.

I just really appreciate your time and thank you for joining

us. So thank you very much.

Yeah, thanks for having me on man, really enjoyed it.

Awesome. You have a great day and thank

you guys for joining us here at the From the Ground Up show.

If you want to join us on a future show, if you have a

question you want to ask of an expert or a practitioner of the

trades, please write in. You can find us on social media

or on our website and we'll see you at the next one.

Thanks, Dylan. Thanks a lot.