Ty Stoller – From 1.4 million Turkeys to Caulking Tycoon – C

Hey there and welcome to From the Ground Up Show where we

inspire and encourage the next generation of blue collar

leaders by telling the story of those that have been there, done

that, and often are still doing it.

So today we are honored to have Ty Stoller joining us.

Ty founded and built Sawtooth Caulking into a regional

powerhouse serving Oregon, Washington, Idaho and venturing

into other surrounding states. Ty is a father, a husband, and a

follower of Jesus and I'm extra excited to have Ty on the show

today. He's been a bit of a hero of

mine for a while. Although not personally

connected, he and I have operated in adjacent circles for

a long time. We have a lot of common friends

and even 2 of my brother in So Ty, welcome and thank you for

joining us. Thanks for having me.

This is quite an honor. Yeah, I forgot.

Well, I forgot about Dylan working for us, too.

Yeah. Yeah, both Dylan and Dalton at

one point or another. So yeah, well, we'll dive right

in. And yeah, we like to start just

diving into your background. So can you tell us a little bit

about where you came from, how you grew up?

How? How does someone grow up to be

Ty Stoller? That's it.

That's great. OK, It's, it's like so many of

my generation just grew up in a small town, little little town

of Dayton, OR, and grew up on a what would be considered now a

sizable farm. At the time.

We never knew it was big, but dad was kind of ahead of his

time at the back in the 80s and we were the largest Turkey

farmer in the dad was the largest Turkey farmer in the

Northwest. So it's, it's at at his peak, we

dad was raising 1.4 million birds per year.

And Oh my gosh, was 64% of the whole northwest.

So it was, it was a big, it was a big operation And, and I just,

you know, he's just popped, you know, he's just dad and, and

started working on the farm when I was 11/12, mainly to get out

of school. We would birds are birds are

shipped out in the night at starting at 11:00 PM and so that

it's less stress on them. And so I was always the

representative for the farm and I'd be out there moving the

birds and on when they're loading them out to take them to

market and just kind of excelled at that and and just grew up

farming. You know, it's it's they do it

younger now even, but started combining when I was 15 and took

it over when I was 16. So I was the only, you know, I

was the only guy running the combine for the whole farm then

and and obviously swathing and never did much dirt work because

I always go back to school by then.

But, but learned a lot of lessons working for a dollar an

hour and, and, you know, kind of realized when I was thinking

about it this morning that it's, it's I'm kind of the last of the

generation where we, I work during the summer, whereas a lot

of kids or a lot of parents, we, we choose to have our kids do

sports now and say that they'll work later, if that makes sense.

They have plenty of their life to work.

And, and it was so I didn't get to play baseball during the

summer or do any of those things.

I was always, but you know, I always had more toys than

anybody else, if that makes sense.

And and, you know, had had the cooler cars and and you know,

with that dollar an hour, it was learned a learned a big lesson

to Dad took me in in September and I got to go buy ACR 80, a

Honda CR-80 dirt bike and and I thought I was the shit.

You know what I mean? Like it was that was that was a

pretty good moment. But anyway.

I I had the 50R similar story so.

And then went off through high school, just went to a little

tiny high school, graduated with a class of 45, student body

president, little bit of sports, never, never very athletic.

But thought, you know, one of the first lessons I learned in

life was went off to college to try to impress other people and,

and picked a college down in California, University of

Redlands. And because it was ranked #2 on

the West Coast. And I was like, oh, got to go

impress people and went down there and absolutely hated it.

And came home at Christmas and with a this this will probably

be a record for your podcast of AI had AGPA of point .52.

So Oh yeah, I got AI, got an A in political science and skipped

all the rest of my classes. So longed out and and came home

and kind of just joined the workforce work for a couple

different outfits and and decided to do it again.

Go to go to Treasure Valley Community College in Ontario and

went into farm business management and absolutely loved

it and thought that's what I was going to do.

And and to this day, if I could pick a dream job, that's what it

would be. Is just like our friend Ben Van

Dyke. It is absolutely love the I

don't know it the this, the strategy, the moving chess

pieces around on on the farm. You know what, just the, you

know, not the mom and pop farm. I mean, I'm talking, you know,

what bends up to five 6000 acres now.

And, and we were, we were 1500, which was big at the time, but

that's all I want to do is, was be in farm business management

and, and came home that summer and worked on the farm again.

And, and, and I'll never forget this was the turning point of,

of my life was in that barnyard had a 65 Mustang at the time.

And dad had just had his mechanic redo the brakes.

And, and he's kind of giving me that talk of like, hey, you

know, drive safe. And 'cause it's, you know, it's

like a 7 hour drive. And, and, and he looks at me,

looks me in the eye and he just goes, son, I just, I'm going to

need you to try harder this year.

It's up until this point you've been a piss poor investment.

And, and those are his exact words.

And, and I and it, and it rocked me because, and he was right.

I mean, it was even though I was using some of my own money, you

know, we had money. So it was like it's he, he was

right. I was just living the living the

party boy life. I mean, just drinking beer and

hanging out with everybody and having a great time.

And, and that's when I went and first big change in my life was

decided to join LSU, which is Les Schwab University.

And most of your listeners will know what Les Schwab is big tire

center tire company throughout the West.

And, and, and it, it was the best thing for me because over

that two year time period, it was, it taught me how to grind,

taught me how to be a man, be accountable.

And at the time, we got paid way more than anybody else in the

workforce, if that makes sense, Significantly more.

And, and did that for a while and then just kind of started

chasing a little bit more opportunity trying to get into

sales. Always could talk, always could

be relatable to people. And so I ended up getting into

the rental business, met my wife here at our local college, met

her at a met her at a country bar and in the big city of

Carlton, you know where that's at.

And, and, and we got married over in she wanted to go back

home and which was over in Vail, Oregon.

And, and so we settled in Meridian, ID, which is, you

know, at the time, 30 years ago was just a little ghost town.

And now it's, you know, the biggest growing city in all of

Idaho and went to work for cat, Western States Cat.

And that was another big, again, blessing because I got into

sales, found out what I was really actually good at, which

is logistics, putting people in a position to win, dealing with

people on an everyday basis. I wasn't very good at it.

I'd piss a lot of people off. The people I worked with.

I wasn't a leader at the time, but I found out that I excelled

at that, if that makes sense, and at, at logistics and whatnot

and, and then became an outside salesman and, and really did

well. That's when I made my

connections with the, all the contractors.

That's when I really started to meet contractors and and then

had a falling out at Western States and and it was the first

time I've ever been fired in in in my career.

First and only time and over a misunderstanding.

But it again, God had a plan and and made two phone calls and

ended up going to work for my best customer and and she was

the biggest glazing contractor still is in Idaho DNA glass and

she goes, hey, come on board. I need an outside salesman,

which was I was way too young to be an outside salesman for a

commercial contractor at the time.

I can look back and see that. But at the time she bought a,

she just bought a brand new building, just this cute little

brand spanking new building from a, from that, that another

contractor was building. And he unfortunately lost his

life in a snowmobile accident. And he he was the biggest culker

and culking company in Idaho. And, and she goes, hey, I don't

know what I'm going to do with this company.

Just run with it. I'm going to keep, you know, I

bought the company because it came with the building.

I wanted the building and run with it.

So I taught myself how to read the plans.

She didn't, nobody knew a thing about the culking industry and,

and I just kind of ran with it and a year later thought I was

doing the right thing and I, I had an opportunity to buy an

another competitor. And so I went into negotiations

to buy that guy out and, and go on my own as a, as a culking

contractor and that guy. Absolutely.

You know, when you when you go to buy a business and, and they

call it blue sky, it comes with all the contracts and whatnot.

And I'll never forget this, this guy, this guy put it all

together and I get the whole list of the jobs, biggest one

being a brand new Walmart. And and I take over the company

on day one and, and I'm out there just grinding, doing the

thing. And, and we hadn't signed

paperwork yet because the again, God blessed me and the attorney

was out on vacation and, and I figured out by the third day I

go, something is not right. And I'd never looked at

paperwork, never done any Billings, never done.

You know, I never even opened the box that he gave me.

And I opened it up and I figure out that out of the, you know,

$100,000 worth of work that the blue sky that I was buying jobs

that were unbilled, that that son of a bitch had decided to go

and build them all. And so I would have been left on

the hook for doing all of those jobs.

And so that was an interesting an interesting Monday morning

when I rolled up to his place and and his father-in-law

actually owned the company. Let let this guy run it.

And he goes, I show him the paperwork and and Kurt looks

over at his son-in-law and just goes, did you really do this?

And Michael just hangs his head in shame.

And, and, and then I have a, I'm 10-15 miles away from, from

civilization out there in, in Kuna, ID and had to call, had to

call the guy from cat that had actually fired me and have him

come pick me up. And, and that time then dad and

I and my grandfather, grandfather had loaned me the 35

grand to, to buy that culking company.

And, and they just go, well, you burn that bridge and, and you

might as well just go out on your own.

And so Reeve and I went to a little, a little bar that night

to get to get dinner, to get wings and, and a beer and, and

just came up with the name Sawtooth because that's the the

Sawtooth Mountains are in Idaho and unfortunately named it

Sawtooth caulking. And because they, and I say

unfortunately, because that narrowed us down quite a bit,

right. And yeah, so wish I would have

named it waterproofing, but I didn't have the foresight.

And so it only took me 25 years in business to finally change

the name, but which we just did last week.

But it, that was the start and incorporated, I don't know,

June, June 12th, something like that of 2000.

And I didn't know a thing. I mean, I, I knew how to

estimate, I knew how to get sales and, and again, just a

couple breaks got my first guy right around Christmas.

And then it was off to the races and, and dad, in that time, dad

had unfortunately lost the farm and the Turkey business tanked

and everybody, everybody in this area switched over the chickens.

And dad was too big to going to the Foster Farms wouldn't give

him a contract for the chickens because he needed to.

They only had room for a couple sheds and dad had eight sets of

sheds. And so next year dad comes on as

an estimator for me and it blows up over in Western Oregon and in

Boise. We were just OK and on year 3

with my wife, nine months pregnant, we make the decision

or we make the move and come over here to to western Oregon.

And it saved the company because we were literally just

fledgling. I mean, it was all three

caulking companies in Idaho were within a one mile.

The whole state of Idaho, we were all within a one mile

radius of each other and it was just bloody.

I mean, it was just pennies on the dollar, Yeah.

It was way worse than the roofing business.

And, and come over here and then you have population, right?

I mean, there's what at the time like a million people in Idaho

is all and and you come to Oregon and there's I mean, what

there's 34 million with with Southwest Washington and

everything. And so it's like we just, we

just grow and, and you know, all of a sudden one guy becomes two

and three and, and go through the early 2000s.

We we don't even know that there's a recession.

We're the the West Coast is so far behind the East Coast and

didn't even know times were good.

I, we're up to, I don't know, nine guys, 88 or nine guys and,

and we build our first house and we move everything in January of

10. And this is another critical

part of the story and, and move everything into the house in

January 10. And I, I go to go to put all the

job files in and I go, Oh, shit, we literally will run out of

work by Valentine's Day. And that's, and, and it's, you

know, there's, there's the first lesson in business is taking

your eye off the ball. It's, it's, it's, you know, you

see it so much now on YouTube and Instagram and, and it's, oh,

what, what's, what's the next business you're going to start?

Or how can you spread out your time and do this and that?

And it's like when you take your eye off the off the girl that

brought you to the party, right? And, and, and just shit the bed.

And then all of a sudden you become desperate and you start

making deals that you just wish you'd never made.

And we go four years where everybody made money during

those that that recession, everybody, all my guy, all my

guys bought houses. That tells you my guys were

making money. Reba and I are just making

wages. Dad's making wages.

We carried $100,000 line of credit at the time and it was

maxed out the entire recession. I didn't get it.

I maxed it out in in June of 10 to go to go on a vacation that

I'd bought the year before. So I couldn't get out of that

and it took until 17 to pay it off Eric off that 100 grand.

I mean, that's just that's just the grind.

I mean that that it, I mean it's let that be the success story

for anybody listening is, is that is that take your eye off

the ball and it it will bite you in the ass bigger.

I'll get out. And anyway, what I then learned

through those those hard years is, is, is the grit is the

grind. The next significant event

happened in on April 14th of the 13th and we call that Sawtooth

Independence Day. And, and that's the day when my

lead guy, I'd finally, just for lack of better terms, grew up

there and I just went, Doug, I, I can't deal with, with the

cancer that you are, with the way that you steal from me.

Because again, I just so often as business owners, we, if the

guy's just doing his job, if we're still making money, you

will just, you'll turn the other cheek and just accept

unaccountable or you'll just be you'll, you won't hold them

accountable. You won't, you won't, you won't

keep a standard of character that you want to be surrounded

by. And so we went from 11 guys that

day to four. And which is not I, I say that

story now and I'm like, it's not that much, but it's, it's a hell

of a lot, you know, to lose that many guys all in in in a week.

And but what it did, you know, and this is where our our

adjacent circles come into play. What what saved my ass is I was

in a Bible study with our that our friend Jim Ramos had put

together, which it was called great hunt for God and in which

now he's expanded into men in the arena.

And and I had all those guys surrounded me at that coffee

shop for all those weeks and praying for me and and just and

standing with me. I mean, they, what could they do

to help me? Right?

But but they were with me and, and then and then we just, we

just kind of the luckiest thing in it is I was telling you this

earlier that that then I found the Dave Ramsey entre leadership

podcast from way back then. And, and we talked about that

with King Coleman and, and, and those changed my life because

again, I I don't have the degree, the education, the the

background. I didn't have a mentor to lean

on. And, and so often self help

books just kind of pissed me off because it's just regurgitated.

I don't know. But all of a sudden there's that

podcast and and now, you know, we look back and and it's it's,

you know, 12 years later, they're they're a dime a dozen

and where you can go get it if you're just searching for it.

But back then there just wasn't much.

But what it taught me is it taught me that culture is first

that hiring character. I still don't hire the way they

do where it's, you know, the the Ramsey ways is five interviews.

I was like, basically, you know, I'm like, Oh, you can, you know,

I developed a hiring strategy and it was so veer off.

This will be the first time we truly veer off.

And I, I, I developed because maybe this will help the right

guy. It doesn't work for us all the

way anymore at, at our size. But at the time, I, I, I call it

the Labrador mentality. And, and what I wanted, I would

interview guys and, and I'd bring them in and I, I'd

literally would sit them on the back patio around the fire pit

because again, the office is just up in the up above the

garage. You know what I mean?

It's just a fledgling. We're a mom and pop and yeah.

And, and I bring them in and, and, and these aren't guys that

have applied per SE. It's, it's all of our hires and,

and are just somebody brought a buddy, if that makes sense.

Like that's, that's, that's our whole business or that's it.

It's just, we're always recruiting.

You know, if this guy's buddy is if, if this guy's good enough to

work for us, then then we figure he'll bring his buddy and, and

we ask him to and we say, hey. And so often they're, they don't

want to do that because they're like, oh, if, if my buddy screws

up, it's going to make me look bad.

And I'm like, no, if, if your buddy screws up, that's on him.

And you just got to be honest up front.

But I created this Labrador mentality, which is I just

wanted young athletic guys, guys that played sports.

And I would ask them like, what sports did you play?

Because I wanted to create a locker room.

So often. I so often guys are just like me

where they went to a little bit of college and they found out

college wasn't for them. And but they can look back on

high school and the best times of their life were actually on

the field or in the locker room and they just wanted to be with

their boys again, right? They just wanted to do something

that mattered. And so that's what we chased

after. And, and, and that, you know,

and if anybody's done any duck hunting, you know, from the, the

Labrador, it's that dog will sit there and stare up at the sky

and he'll hear the shot and then he'll go get the duck and he'll

come back. And all he wants to do is be

told, good boy, that's it. And that's what I hired and I

had, and it just grew. And it was, you know, then it

was, you know, we're at 8 guys, then we're at 12 guys and then

we're at 17 and then we're at 20.

And it's, we're rolling now. And we come out of the recession

and, and I've developed this culture of, of, I mean, at one

time this is, we had six Allstate running backs working

for us. And, and it is just it, it was a

special time of, of learning about me, of learning about

giving guys opportunities and letting them grow, letting them

fail, coaching them through the failures.

And then we just started chasing work.

And by 16 the economy is fully flowing and, and we start doing

more and more stuff in downtown Portland, kind of take the next

steps and fully get into waterproofing, doing big

buildings. And first big hire I made was in

spring of 16, hired a kid that had worked for me since he was

in high school and he finished up down at Oregon State.

He played a little football at Oregon State and, and came to

work for me And just to relieve the bottleneck that all business

owners have of, of my bottleneck at the time was, you know, I'm,

I'm, I wake up in the morning, I'll answer the emails and, and

then, and then dad would, dad was our estimator.

And so then here come the, here come the take offs and I'm doing

the take offs or I mean, I'm doing the bids and the

proposals. I'd send those out and then by

11 I'm in the truck and, and we have a, you know, this from

being around here. We have an hour to get to any of

our jobs. I mean, that's nothing compared

to what you have to deal with. But, but, but go spend, go spend

3 or 4 hours just checking on jobs, you know, the ones that

are that haven't started yet to the ones that go see our guys,

get back to the shop, go pick up material and and then line up

the guys. Another, another big thing we

did was, again, this will work for some of the guys listening.

It won't work for it won't work for everybody.

And some guys will be flat out offended by this, but it's,

it's, you know, the shop was just down at my dad's in his

garage and, and dad's a dad is a hell of a beer drinker.

And, and we just started offering it to the guys.

And, and in the sense of I wanted the guys to come home and

tell me about their day and, and help me schedule for the next

day and put us in a position to win.

But so often in, in, in our work lives, it's just the guys will

come in, punch the clock and they'll go get in their car and

they'll bounce. And so we created this family

atmosphere of the guys who just have a beer dated by pepperoni

sticks and, and we'd have ice cream during the summer and,

and, and Otter pops during the summer.

And and it's just creating this, this just family atmosphere and

it is crazy out of those guys that core group, so many of them

are, are are our leaders now from back when we only had 20

guys and those guys are now running the company.

And AJ came on in 16 and my bottleneck was emails.

I just was horrible on emails and answering people because I,

I just didn't care. It just, I, it just wasn't

where, it wasn't what I was good at.

And so he just took that bottleneck.

And I remember sitting there going, my wife going, hey, if

you come to work for us, we're doing 3,000,000 at the time.

And he's like, and we're like, if you come to work for us, we

have to do 4 in order to afford you to, to come on board salary

wise and what not. And it is amazing.

Again, another lesson that I want people to hear is just, you

know, hire your hire for your weakness, hire the right guy,

but hire for your weakness. Because uncorking that

bottleneck, we, we do 4 1/2 in a, in a, you know, the year he

starts, which he doesn't even start till summer.

And then it bumps to six and then eight and then 10.

And it's, we've hardly hired anybody else.

It's just this kid taking care of all of my weaknesses and I'm

still doing the scheduling, I'm still doing a ton of the sales.

He's just handling so much of the paperwork side that I just

struggled with to where I couldn't get out, see the guys,

etcetera. And so, and then the next big

phase was 20. We, we move into it.

We, we for our retirement, we built some commercial buildings

and your father-in-law was the electrician and we built some

buildings and, and moved in officially in.

This is how busy we were. The buildings are ready in

February of 20 and we couldn't even move.

The management went there, but we couldn't even move the

company until May like the the 1st of May.

We were just that busy with just assholes and elbows just going

and going and going. And, and then COVID hit and, and

as we all know, anybody that's in the construction business,

that did not even matter. Like all it changed was the fact

that all that changed was the fact that all of a sudden,

instead of going to lunch, we were going and picking up lunch.

And, and then being in Oregon, you know, the, the communist

state of, of Oregon, it's, you know, you don't get to go to

church anymore. And that's it.

That's all that changed. We're busier than we've ever

been, right? And, and, and a big, big God

moment came when Raven and I went and picked up a motorhome

in Phoenix in, in August of that year.

And that's when all the riots are happening in downtown

Portland. And we're doing some masonry

restoration stuff on a, on a, on a building down there and, and,

and our porta potty gets taken like 2 blocks away.

I don't know why they thought they needed a porta potty.

And our scaffolding gets dismantled and they start using

it for weapons and and different shit.

And, and I remember driving through Salt Lake and I looked

over anybody who's been on, on, on the freeway there and you

look over in Salt Lake is just right there and I see, I count

11 cranes and I go, why can't we take the show on the road?

And, and that was the big moment for me of I went and visited

Texas and, and got intimidated. I just Texas, the Dallas market

was just huge and there's no hills, so you can't ever tell

what's actually happening there, if that makes sense.

Everything's flat. And, and visited Salt Lake and

did research on Denver and Phoenix and, and I remember my

banker left here and, and moved to Boise and meeting him at

Christmas over there in Boise and, and he goes, why don't you

just come to Boise and use it as a, as a, you know, elite pad to

get to Salt Lake or wherever else you want to go?

But you already have experience here.

You have connections. I mean, it been 20 years, but,

and that was the best advice we, you know, that I ever got.

And within a couple months we started landing work in Boise

and and did it the wrong way, which again, another lesson if

anybody's listening is just don't go buy work.

It is not worth trying to just for the market just because when

a job goes wrong, you are more than buying the work you are,

you are owning it. And it's it's learned a lot of

lessons there. But the craziest part in in

looking back is that that Boise market now 20 years to the week

of me leaving, we were back there caulking.

I mean, it's the the irony, God's irony and all that was was

pretty cool. And, and then, and then we just

over a three-year time period slowly just with consistency and

because we know what we are, we know who we are, we, we run

everybody out of business, take out all the competition and not,

not intentionally just just doing our thing.

And yeah, and then, and then the mega projects come and in the, a

lot of the people in Boise, the contractors just weren't even

prepared for these mega projects.

And, and we were and, and have you seen the Micron job when

you've come through Boise or do you fly in?

I I've not seen it, but I've heard a lot about it.

It's stirring some stuff up in my world as well.

Dude, it's the biggest thing I have ever seen in my life.

It is. It is the biggest thing and, and

we, we land the contract for that in in July of of 23 and

actually do the work right around Thanksgiving for the the

first bit of waterproofing on that thing.

And, and now and now we're culking on it.

But it's the Boise market now has we're doing more in Boise

than we are in Portland from that leap of faith.

And, and I remember doing the drives over to Boise, just just,

you know, going, what am I doing?

I, I don't want to do this. I, you know, the fears of, of

putting myself out there of, of failure and whatnot.

And, and just, you know, falling back on the story of Jonah and,

and how, how often he turned on God and, and went the other

direction and, and, and I'm like, and yeah, I'm explaining

that to my wife. And she just goes, she just

finishes just plain as day. She goes, don't be Jonah.

Go do what God told you to do. And it's like, OK, all right,

God told me to go, I'm going to go.

And, and it's, it's absolutely worked out.

It's, it's, we have 25 guys there every on on the ground and

every week we send another 20 probably just to do work in, in

the Boise market and have positioned ourselves incredibly

to, to win. So that's been a game changer.

And then. Awesome.

And then, and then really gotten into the data center world

because to get to get to Boise, we got to go through a little

town of Boardman OR, and you keep seeing all these data

centers popping up there and, and we see the first ones and

we're like, who's doing them? And, and, and that was kind of a

feat to be able to figure out how to get in with these

national general contractors and, and, and, and doing that

sales, the business development side of all that.

And and then AJ Lansom and, and it's.

At one point we were doing 16 of them all at once, basically and.

Wow. And it's, it's, that's been

really good. Hermiston, the Hermiston market,

Hermiston Boardman market has been really good doing the, the

AWSS And so and, and we've grown.

We did, did I think 22 last year?

We'll do kind of, no, we did 23 and we'll do 24 this year.

Kind of kind of had some jobs go wrong, which everybody's going

to have jobs go wrong, but kind of hurt us a little bit this

year. So we didn't grow as much as we

should, but but then we should bump up.

We should be close to 30 for next year.

So that's kind of, that's kind of Sawtooth in a nutshell.

And then rebranded, just officially went, went live with

the website and, and all the rebranding after 25 years and,

and a bean Sawtooth culking and everybody just thinking that

that's all we're doing is just culking bathtubs and, and

culking windows and, and, and it's like, no, we are the, we

are blessed to be the biggest waterproofing company in the

Northwest and the biggest caulking company in the

northwest. And, and now we have fire

stopping and, and masonry restoration and traffic coding

and, and seismic expansion joints, which you have on, on

your roofing stuff and, and traveling to Wyoming and Nevada

and Utah. And yeah, it's it's, it's been a

it's been a ride. So that.

Is on the northwest and headed throughout the mountain region

now. And it's just, it's, it's pretty

cool. So that, yeah, we changed the

company name to Sawtooth Fortified to just kind of bring,

you know, and it's such a reach, but it's, it's how we bring

everything under roof and, and unite all the different guys and

all the different teams so that we're all just one instead of

just Sawtooth, just Sawtooth Fortified and, and, and it was

that was, that was a cool, that was, that was taking a chance

rebranding like that. But it, it turned out it was, it

was pretty cool to be able to tell the designer and, and the

team like, hey, we're bold. We're we're professional, but we

want a little swagger and and, you know, just kind of a little

bit of outlaw and and that yeah. And that's what we are.

And and so it's that's been a ride.

So. Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah, so. They're awesome.

Saw 2. Story you, you mentioned a

couple things there I've got to hear a little bit more about.

So you said 1.2 million turkeys or was it 1.4?

1.4. 1.4 million turkeys that I've never spent a lot of time

with turkeys. The couple bird places I've been

around man, 12 chickens is chaos with noise and smell and the

clean up 100 percent. 1.4 million turkeys that had to be

just insane. What?

What was I mean, what did an average day look like with 1.4

million turkeys? It's, it's, it's very organized.

I mean, it's it's dad had the sheds.

You know, it's grandpa started it back in on the, on the main

place in 47, which is now, if anybody looks it up on the map

is our cousin Bill bought the bought the homestead out of

bankruptcy when dad when dad went under and and so it kept

the family name and it's now it's stole her winery and, and

and he's built it up into he just passed away in, in June, I

believe. But but Bill built it up into an

empire in the wine business. And then which for anybody

listening, that's, that's, that's where we're at.

We're in wine country out here in Oregon.

I mean, it's nothing like the Portland that that anybody sees.

It's, it's beautiful out here. It's, it's, but it's, but the,

the Turkey sheds, there's, there's the brooder house and,

and the birds come in. There's 3036 thousand would come

into a brooder house and then and half would be Toms and half

would be hens and and they're separated and, and then, and

then once they get 6-8 weeks old, then we move them into the

grow out sheds and the Toms would get 2 and then the hens

obviously being smaller, would have would have one and and dad

took it from 26 weeks to grow him out.

Dad had it down to with the feed program.

And this is all before all the supplements and the injection,

you know, all the nasty shit that we shouldn't eat.

This is just feed and dad did all of his own feeding.

I mean that we, he had a guy that every single day would

drive the semi to Portland just to unload rail cars and bring

the semi back with, with the bone meal and the soy and the

corn and the wheat and everything else.

And, and so the bird's dad had it down to like 1617 weeks, I

think 1718 weeks. And, and then in three days

they'd flip a shed and the, and the, and the pulse would come in

and, and, but there were eight different farms across the

county. So and wow, dad had 25 guys, I

think 2530 guys, which is a lot for 1980.

Oh man, so. Yeah, well, I'm thinking just

just cleaning up the waste. That's a job.

Oh, that was it's, it's Speaking of 1988.

It's that was my first shot of entrepreneurship is that's a

great story is that there is so much Turkey shit coming out of

their sheds. I mean, just mountains of of

because they just push it out out the back and then and let it

just kind of compost a little bit.

And then, and then come this time of year, I'd, I'd be

combining still. And I would, well, not this

time, but this is more like in the summer, I'd be combining.

And from 7:00 until 9:30, I'd, I'd go visit other farmers and

I'd sell the, the Turkey manure. And I remember playing his day.

It was like $55 a load. And and then I would and then as

soon as we were done combining, then I would for the season,

then I would it was my own operation that, you know, dad

had supported. I mean, it was all dad's money.

It wasn't, but he just let me go sell.

And I'm sure the other guys would call dad and and you know,

wink or whatever, but it's but I'm just hauling Turkey shit

with, you know, I got the I got a big front end loader just

loading up the truck. And you know, I'm, I'm 16

driving AI don't even like a 10 speed like just some beat up old

farm truck just going and spreading Turkey shit throughout

the county. And, and, and I remember falling

into a convenience store and and walking in and, and, and the old

boy behind the counter just goes, Oh my God, get out, get

out. What do you want?

And I'm like, I just want to coke and a burrito.

And he's like, you stay there. I go get it.

And Oh, those are the days. So yeah, oh man, you know.

That's yeah, that's quite a way to grow up, I'm sure.

You know, so it was good times. You also mentioned that you

built your own hiring system and you were looking for kind of a

particular personality, the Labrador you called it.

Can you tell me a little bit more about that system?

How many interviews do you do? What specifically were you

looking for? How do you identify those people

that fit your culture in your company?

So basically, by the time they were, it'd be a, it'd be a text

or a phone call. You know, somebody, one of my

guys would, would say, hey, I got a buddy.

And so it'd be a text or a phone call or vice versa from them.

And, and, and I'd bring, like I said, I'd, I'd just bring them

in either either to the shop or to my house, wanting to be very

personable. It wouldn't be, you know, in an

office. I just wanted it to be very low

key. And then I just, I literally

just start asking a series of questions and, and my guys still

use it today. And it's, it's we just start out

with, you know, tell me about yourself because again, we're

hiring younger guys. They, you know, we're not

hiring. I mean, do we have 3540 fifty

year old guys? Absolutely.

But for the vast majority of the of the fellas out in the field,

they're, they're just dumb ass 20 year old kids like we were,

you know what I mean? They're just, yeah, they don't

know anything. And and so you just go, hey,

tell me about yourself. Where'd you go to high school?

Where'd you grow up? You know, and then I you know,

if they say that they grew up in Wilhemina, then I make fun of

them and tell them nothing good ever came out of will of Mina

and and you find out if they played sports, you you find out

what their interests are. You know, if a kids coming to

work for me and all he does is play video games, it's probably

not going to be a good fit because he's never done anything

outside. You know, does you just you get

to know the guy you It's it's nothing was ever written down.

You know, do I ever write anything down?

I'm just letting the conversation feed me or feed

itself. And and you know, and then you

just kind of because again, I didn't hire guys and and it's

the same thing for your business.

It's, you're not hiring talent because so often if you hire a

guy that actually has done it in the field, they bring so many

bad habits they bring, There's a reason they're not working at

the place that they were at anymore.

I, I was hiring, I learned in that, in that the rebrand or not

the rebranding, but just the, you know what, we're at 25 years

in the business. It took me to the halfway point

to figure out how to be a leader, if that makes sense.

And for that, becoming of a leader in 13/14/15, that's when

I, you know, that's when I started hiring character.

Did I ever do 234 interviews? No, it's if, if the guy I would

close the interview with, listen, we're going to know in

two weeks. Both of us are going to know in

two weeks whether you are going to work here or not.

Do not have hard feelings. If, if we, if we decide you're

not going to work here, it's for the best for the both of both of

us. And it's, and it's OK, you're

not, you're not failing. It's just, it's just best for

the both of us. If if you go find something

else, but we'll figure it out in two weeks, whether you have it

or don't. And and again, all we want was

hustle. We wanted resourcefulness.

That's a big word. That's something absolutely

missing in this in this new age right now is resourcefulness of

just. Yeah, it is.

It's, it's and when I see it, I absolutely give accolades

because it's, it's if you don't know how to do something, the

craziest part is it's on YouTube.

Just stop on YouTube and somebody has done it.

You know what I mean? Like just you have all the

tools, boy, just use them. But so that's the, and then, and

then the next phase of hiring was, was, was starting to hire

leadership. And this will be the next

lessons is just please do not hire, Do not put your best

skilled guy. You're, you know, in my world,

your best calker, your best waterproof.

Uh, just because he's the best at that craft does not mean he's

going to be the best at managing or leading that craft.

And I, I absolutely stagnated the company for several years

because we just, you know, it, it's absolutely common.

You want to reward the guy that that has been with you the

longest is, is your best guy. And it's just natural.

Everybody thinks that that's the natural progression.

And it's not, it's, it's, it's crazy that it's just let them

just do what they're good at, pay them absolutely well.

And it's crazy the, the kids that now schedule everything and

lead the teams are, you know, we're, we're just above average.

They weren't the best, you know what I mean?

But they, they are really good at, at organizing and details,

whereas so often the, the skilled guys aren't, if that

makes sense. So.

Yeah, big lessons. It's two totally different skill

sets. Totally there.

So. Yeah, we, we find that.

So as some of your guys age out or are looking for a upward

trajectory, what kind of a path do you put the really skilled

guys that are not going to be a good fit in the office, What's

the end goal for them? Do they stay in the field and

just earn more? Is there a middle management

position available for them? Where do they move as they move

up A? Little bit of both and, and even

though we're 25 years, it's and, and we've had, we have guys that

have been with us 15 plus years. One's probably approaching 20

now. It's it's really the best is

just leaving them in the field and paying them very well and

giving them a lot, lot, lot more rope leash.

If that makes it like just let them run with they know how to

do the damn work. Just leave them alone.

Yeah, give them the guys they want and they'll go make you a

ton of money. Some of them have gone into

more, like you said, middle management where it's it's one

of my famous lines is just I don't need you to do the work.

In fact, here's a freaking lawn chair.

You sit here on the job and just tell everybody what to do.

I don't need you. You have all the wisdom.

Just point, tell them what to do.

It's when we do bring them inside and it's they got to do

the, you know, the emails and the scheduling of everybody and

all that, that that's, that's, that's when the wheels come off.

So, but yeah, and, and we have not, yeah, we're still young

enough that that nobody's retired yet.

We, we haven't, I don't have to answer that question yet.

I don't know what that looks like.

So. OK.

That's something we wrestle through frequently is providing

A continually upward track, especially when like you said,

the the top skilled guys don't necessarily track transition

into the office and that's probably not where they would

want to be anyway They. Once they.

'D walk into the office and a a week of sitting in front of the

computer they're ready to get back out in the field.

So and sometimes, yeah, I like that.

We use, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, with, with our most recent

guy and he, and he's a young guy it, it's, we use the same

philosophy that we used when we were hiring.

It's just you come in for, you know, we bumped it up to more

like you come in for 30 days and then we'll make that decision in

30 days between the both of us, so.

Yeah. Yeah, what else you.

Got. That's interesting.

Well, you've been through some pretty difficult things.

I'm sure you talked a little bit about your dad losing his

business. That was probably a hard time as

a family. You lost a job yourself.

You went through kind of a significant recession and then

sawtooth Independence Day. What's the most difficult

challenge you faced today? OK.

I questioned whether I was going to bring this up.

So I got to, I got to pause with my words because I don't want to

offend anybody. The union has been, that was the

most difficult time for me was, was the summer of 2015.

And we, everybody's pretty much figured we are a non union

company and, and there is nothing wrong with the union,

except with the union that would fall that we would fall under,

if that makes sense. And, and it started out with a

phone call of, of, of them asking us to, to, to join the

union. And I'm like, well, tell me all

about it. And because again, you're like,

hey, it, it may bring more opportunity.

And again, in our world, and you know this from your world, we

don't really need the union. Whereas obviously with, with

Merv, you know, to be an electrician, you have to join

the union. That's what like.

If you're a plumber, more than likely you're going to be,

you're going to go union. It's we go through the process

and and this guy literally calls me out and I'm in the thick of

my new culture of being a leader.

And he goes, you don't take care of your guys.

And I'll never forget that. And I'm like, what do you mean?

I don't take care of my guys? And he goes, you don't pay them

enough. And I'm like, you don't, you

don't fight for them. You don't do anything.

And I'm like, and, and it made us really look inside and, and

get away from, you know, and, and, and not listen to his

words, but listen to more of what he was saying and, and go,

you know what, they were right. We we discovered really quick

that we paid more out of the gate.

If we're going to put this in high school terms, freshman

year, Sawtooth was we pay more and we took care of the guys

sophomore year because we are running on merit, not on time.

And you know exactly what I mean.

It's it's out there would be a jump ahead.

But by the time they were juniors and seniors, by then,

I've already given them company trucks and company credit cards

and leadership positions and pay and we've far exceeded what they

were doing. And, and, and then the final

straw was I go, OK, so if I need, if I need like 4 guys

tomorrow, so I just call the hall.

I mean, how do you, how do you find guys?

And he goes, we don't, I mean, you still do all the hiring and

you develop them. And I went, what in the fuck are

we talking about here? And on, I mean, and, and when I

turned him down and I said I, I go, I go.

So you're telling me we had one guy I go, Herbie, because they

were going hard after this guy. I go, Herbie.

You would have found him hucking freight on the graveyard shift

at Cabela's down in Springfield, OR you would have found him and

you would have brought him into the union and developed him and,

and he would be a product of the, of the, of the brick layers

union. And he goes, well, no, you would

have found him and then he would have joined the union And and

that's, that's how it would have worked.

I'm like, what do I need you for?

And he goes well, and that ended that conversation.

And then what made it difficult? And this is, and again, the

union is fine for for some people it's, it's just I saw no

benefit. They needed Sawtooth way more

than I needed them. And what ended up happening in

is they started sending their union recruiter to every single

job site and, and just ripped our company apart for 6075 days.

And it all came to a head and they had one of my most loyal

guys absolutely spooled up like he was just leading the charge

for everybody. And luckily I got some good

advice to to go retain a lawyer up in Portland.

And, and one of those awkward where you get on an elevator, go

to the 15th floor and go to some conference room.

And, and luckily they told me exactly what was going to happen

next. And, and, and we were prepared

for it. And, and we sat everybody down

one Friday afternoon on our back patio and I cooked up food and

we had a company meeting and we just laid it all out for him of

like, some of you may want to go do it and it's OK, we

understand. But others, you know, it's,

it's, we're a family here and, and we believe in each other.

We, we helped, we helped turn you into who you are now.

And we don't want to lose that. And, and it all kind of came to

a head in in August of 15 and, and the team all decided to stay

with us and, and Steven, Steven stood up in that meeting and he

goes, Hey, all of you Foreman, the union says if we go, if, if

we leave right now, we go right to the, the union contractor and

everybody gets a company truck and everybody gets everything we

have now, plus a bonus. Come on, let's just go do it.

And everybody, everybody just kind of hit pause.

And two weeks later, Stevens gone.

He he decided to quit, which was a blessing because I couldn't

obviously I can't fire him. And, and in a month after that,

my guys run into him up on a job and he's working for that union

contractor driving a commuter rig, just like the union guys

drive and having to commute from Salem to Portland in his

commuter rig, no company truck and, and doing work that doing

some pretty laborious stuff that we were, we would never put him

in. And, and he just kind of hung

his head in shame and, and we're just like, OK, that was a

blessing. So that was the and again, I

hope that doesn't turn any of the guys off that are listening.

It's just it, it just killed me that the union wanted.

It's, it's very reminiscent of what we're dealing with

sometimes with, with the society today of, of the union just

wanted my company without putting in any of the work

required to get it to where it's at.

And it just that, that was tough of just the, the tricks and the,

the bullshit that they put us through for those those two

months was just, I mean, talk about sleepless nights and just

it, it was, it was tough. That was, that was the toughest.

Oh man, and I, I had, hey, thanks a lot.

I hadn't thought about that in years.

So. Well, it sounds like it turned

out well, but yeah, that had to be pretty scary, having all of

your guys kind of on the chopping block all at once.

It. Would.

Have having that meeting and not knowing which direction it was

going to go, that was probably pretty scary.

I knew I had one guy that was it at that in that meeting.

I had one guy that was because he'd been in the union.

And he goes, I mean, he stood up in the, you know, and he said,

hey, this is this is what it's all about.

But yeah, to lose. And at that time we were

probably 20, roughly 20 guys. So yeah, man.

Yeah. That was that was yeah.

And then the next toughest. And it's, I can joke about it

now, but but it's, you know, I told, I told you already that we

moved here from from the Boise market back home and to link it

all together with with, you know, because Pop was doing so

well estimating here. But we got here in June and mom

had left dad after 35 years in April.

And so we get here, move the whole family and Pop's going

through his second, you know, right there.

It's his most difficult time, you know, but and this is what,

three years after losing the farm, maybe 4 and and you know,

mom left and, and but we get here and none of the jobs like

nobody had been to the jobs. Nobody was returning phone calls

like it was a you want to talk about a app like your whole

future is in shambles and you just start just trying to make

people happy like you just are. You just got to be transparent

and tell everybody like, we'll be here, I can't be there

tomorrow, I'll be there on Wednesday.

And it's just what a mess. Absolute shit show for, for

about 3 months to get that all under control.

And, and, but we made it. We survived.

Yeah, and thriving now. I know you guys have been

growing steadily for quite a few years and have ramped up quite a

bit. Do you have a particular

strategy or anything that you feel has worked best for growth?

Two sides of that the the immediate no, I don't have a

strategy, Eric. It's another big God moment was

we started to grow in, in, in 21 and, and I remember playing his

day, playing his day. I'm we had 35 guys total.

And, and I remember going, you know, it's one of those prayer

sessions where things are so at peace and, and we've all had

them. And you're just like, you don't

even know what to pray for or you're just, you're grateful,

You know, you're just kind of doing your prayers of gratitude.

And then you just kind of go, what do you want me to do next?

God? And it was just so just bam, he

goes, take the company, company to 100 guys, bless 100 guys,

bless 100 families. And I was like, whoa, whoa,

whoa. I mean, and wrap your mind

around that 35 to 100. Wrap your mind around that

statement. Yeah, but again, and this is we

had we had made our first venture into Boise, but I mean,

this was this was even bigger. And, and I tell my guys, my my

management team, I'm like this God said this and, and, and my

guys don't ever. Don't be Jonah.

And don't be Jonah. And but my guys don't even doubt

it anymore. If I say in my prayers, God said

this, my guys are like, OK, we've seen what God can do.

They're not even like fully Christ's followers.

And they're just like, well, we've seen what?

We've seen what God does for Ty. We're just going to do it.

So yeah. And all of a sudden we're at 50

and then we're at 80. And I'll never forget we were

in. We're on vacation somewhere in

in June of 23 and all of a sudden I get a text from my

daughter and she goes, she's our she's, she's our accounting, she

runs our accounting department and and she goes, we just hit

100 and I went and it's just that, OK.

I wasn't even really, you know, we're not hiring just to have

100 guys. It's just, you're hiring just

like you were hiring if you only had 12, you just need one more

guy. And but back to the strategy.

It's, it's a lot of prayer time. It's a lot of, it's a lot of

quiet time. You know, the drives and, and

you have enough drives on any of you know, going to any of your

job sites. It's, it's turning off the

podcast, turning off the radio and just that quiet time of

just, you know, you don't have any kids around you anymore and

you're just, you get to think. And, and it's just again, the,

the growth strategy has always been to bless more families and,

and are you going to bless them all?

No, but we're going to bless 80% of them that come through our

doors. We have a very high retention

level. And, and, and so then all of a

sudden you already talked about it.

What do you do with your guys that have been in the field a

while? And it's just going back to

going back to sports. It's, it's, there's only so many

seats on the varsity bench. And so you have to grow in order

to have more seats on the varsity bench to give guys more

opportunity to do what they're built to do.

And so otherwise you just become complacent and you're going to

do you know that, that we made money at 10 million, you know

what I mean? We were fine.

I, I had a nice house. I had, I had the nicest truck.

I the whole night, like we went on vacation.

It's just, I just hit this point of like, I don't want to be

complacent. I cannot, I feel like a failure

if I'm complacent, if that makes sense.

And that's, and that's, you know, that's the whole basis of

my leadership style is, is going all the way back to year 1, you

know, the, the, the, the morning shave and just staring at the

guy in the mirror and just going, you know, back then

there's, there's three families that depend on me and I got to

do what I have to do in order to support those three families.

And then now it's like we're 118 guys now, so.

Wow, you mentioned the weight of being responsible for supporting

so many families. I know as a leader that's

probably the most stressful thing that I feel and also the

most rewarding. Do you have anything to speak

into that? Maybe sometimes that it was most

rewarding or or what that weight feels like?

I'm sure it often feels pretty lonely being the guy at the top

that's responsible for 118 families.

It it's changed, I mean, understand it is as as we've

grown, there's a full leadership team.

Now we have a VP of operations, a JS VP of sales, Josh's VP of

operations and you know, we even have a safety guy now.

I mean, it's just who would have been working.

I mean, like I said that that we're a little outlaw.

I never thought we would have safety guys and at at 80 guys, I

quit doing the hiring. The we brought a consultant in

and best, worst thing we ever did and but it so unfortunately

I have lost track of. So when we have the big company

meetings, I unfortunately don't know 30 guys, if that makes

sense. Like I just, I don't even know.

I if somebody goes, Hey, this is Devin or this is Carter, this is

Chris. OK, I've heard of him, but I

like it. It's that has changed.

But again, the, the decisions, the, the weight of, of where the

company's going of, of where God is taking it, where God wants it

to go. You're right that it doesn't

change because you don't want to let anybody down.

You don't if that means they're hanging Christmas lights on your

house or painting the interior of your house or doing things to

stay busy. You know, I don't believe in

unemployment, you know what I mean?

Just whatever. Oh yeah, whatever it takes to.

But you talk about the, you know, the relationships were so,

so I mean, they're still deep with with the core guys, but you

know, the fatherly coaching advice, you know, walking

through relationships of, you know, walking through buying a

house, their first houses and, and what do we do tie on this?

You know, and it's, it's when I first found Christ and I'm going

through the Bible for the first time.

And and you know, I believe I'm in kings and, and it's and, and

Solomon asks, you know, the only thing he asked of God was just

the blessing of discernment and wisdom, right?

And, and I remember, I distinctly remember where I was

at when I read that. And I go, that's all I want that

that's powerful. And and so that was always my

blessing. And so that's, and then I look

back on that now 20 years later and I go, that is what God

blessed me with is just this. I, I am blessed with wisdom.

I am blessed with the Gray hair that the we talk about with

elders and, and it's, it's, I am, I have seen a lot and done a

lot and you know, and I can coach them through their moments

and what not. But when you talk about a

highlight, it's it's we had our 25 year summer bash in August

and, you know, we just tell them all, you know, bring, bring your

family. And it was the cutest thing that

the, the 20 year old guys that are still living at home brought

their mom and dad, you know, like, and, and they're so proud

to come introduce me to, you know, Harold and Susan and, and

this is my mom and dad and, and, and then, you know, OK, you got

something going on. You got something a culture

where guys want to be here. You know what I mean?

You're like, we got it. We have something very, very

special. It's not about the money.

It's not about the, it's not about the revenue.

It's not about the how big we are or it is.

It's about. It's about.

Yeah, that consultant I talked about, he's like, you need to

create a mission statement. And I go, OK, and I go, that is

the dumbest. Like he sends me one like as a,

as a demo or as a like he it's, it's like this.

And I started reading it and I'm like, this is like every stupid

corporation out there, Like this is all false bullshit.

And I go, OK, what is mine? And I, I'm driving and I'm

driving and, and we're just coming into Moab from Colorado

and I go, I got it. I go.

We take boys and we turn them into men and we turn them into

pillars of their community. We turn them into fathers, into

better sons, into better friends.

And oh, by the way, we're pretty fucking good at waterproofing.

And he didn't like that, but that's it.

That's yeah, that's our mission statement.

So. So.

Yeah, a core piece of our mission statement is developing

great people because same thing. We're all about developing

people. If you just want to punch a

clock and get a paycheck, this isn't a place for you.

We're we're looking to grow. I don't care where you start or

where you're going, but we're going to grow together.

So Yep, that's awesome. Awesome.

I know you said you started working in caulking underneath a

glazing company. You kind of had no idea what you

were doing and then tried to buy a caulking company when you had

no idea what you're doing and launched your own caulking

company before you really knew what you were doing with

caulking. I get the impression you're more

of a a leader, a developer, a business person than a

practitioner. How has that shaped your

business and do you feel that that's a advantage or a

disadvantage? Again, we talked about the self,

I said I think self help books are kind of crazy or just kind

of just regurgitated information.

And Week 2 of starting my company, I'm getting the oil

changed in my truck And I don't know why I didn't change it

myself because I, I had everything to do it, but I'm

getting the oil changed and, and I'm reading a book and I, I

would love to know what this book is.

But the guy describes, there are three types of business owners.

There's the tradesman, there's the bean counter, and then

there's the entrepreneur, the leader.

And I went and he goes right down the, he goes, if you're

going to be a tradesman, you're going to be so worried about how

your work is in the field and, and you're going to be so

worried about staying on task that you'll never be able to

build your company. If you're a, if you're an

accountant, if all you worry about is the numbers, you're

never going to take chances. You're always going to, you're

going to have zero ability to handle risk.

You're going to treat people like crap.

And it just became very evident to me at the time that I I'd

rather be an entrepreneur. And and that's what sent me on

my path. It's the other side of that is

back to the farm. And dad and I talked about this

one night when we first started the business and he goes, Ty,

promise me you're never going to learn how to coke because the

minute you learn how to talk, you'll be just like me.

And he goes, I don't want you to.

I don't want you to have the marriage that I have.

This is when mom and him, we're still together.

He goes, I, I literally would wake up at the crack of dawn and

go check birds, show up in the barnyard at 7, get the guys all

set up on what they're supposed to do for the day.

And we'd all go about our day and then at 6:00 when the guys

would bounce, then I'd go jump in the tractor because we still

needed to break down this field. And I would go until one or two

in the morning. And he goes, that's exactly what

you'll do is that you'll, you guys are going to be done on

Friday night. And you're going to go out there

and you're going to be there first thing in the morning on

Saturday. You're going to be there first

thing in the morning on Sunday. And you'll literally ruin your

family by worrying about what's happening in the field.

And just focus on the business, focus on leading the guys.

And that will win in the end of the day.

So that's what I did so. Wow.

I know how to waterproof, let that be known.

I can waterproof OK, I just can't call.

Yeah. I think there's a good lesson in

there for a lot of business owners saying, I can't pinpoint

kind of a single moment or a transition, but I know that's

definitely a transition I've made in our business, moving

from more of a practitioner to what I'd like to think as an

entrepreneur. And I like the way you

articulated that. Because again, we will put the

weight of the company on our shoulders, but, and then all of

a sudden and again now now maturing, you know, the other

aspect of that is, is just, it's a windshield view.

That's all you're seeing. You're not seeing the whole

company. And so the minute I could fly at

10,000 feet and see where we're heading and now I'm at 30,000

feet of just now I can really see where the company's going.

I can I can swoop down coach where I need to coach and I may

go days without having to coach. But but that's the change is is

just so many of my guys even get caught up in the day-to-day

windshield view and they don't step back and go, OK, what's

actually best for themselves, for their families, for and for

the company because they're just so focused on the that one job.

So. Yeah, yeah.

Is there something that has significantly changed the way

you view it or the way you look at it in your leadership

journey? I know there's a few things that

when I first started in business, I was pretty

judgmental of other contractors, other business people.

And as my business has grown, as I've matured, my view of those

things has changed pretty significantly.

Is there something like that you can think of?

Give me an example. Well, I know two that spring to

mind is, yeah, I started more as a practitioner and less of a

business person. And I used to look down on

somebody that wasn't in the field as much that they didn't

have a feel for everything. And you're going to lose, lose

control, lose quality if you're not in the field doing it.

You just don't know what's going on.

And as my business has grown and that just hasn't become a

reality, I think that shifted where I think building an

appropriate culture, you can still maintain the quality and

the control. You can still know what's going

on without being the guy that's doing it every day.

So I'll go opposite of that and you'll know where I'm going is,

is just as I've grown, as we've grown and we've grown

substantially in the last five years, it is sometimes hard to

look down and, and not hard. It's it's very easy to be

judgmental at someone who hasn't grown.

But then with the books I've read, with the podcast, with

wisdom, I can also look into their situation and go, I can

pinpoint why, I can understand why.

And again, you, you just said it.

And that's what triggered me was the, it's, it's control.

At the end of the day, it is just this, it's this fear of, of

not having control of the situation.

And, and, and again, we talked about comfort, you know, I

talked about comfort zone, complacency.

And it's just so I, I just try to help people.

I mean, it, it's, it's pretty awesome to, I mean, that's how

you and I met was, was his God's put me here to start passing on

this information and, and, and to help in any little way. 1

little antidote, one story 11 saying whatever to, to help you

or help whoever's listening. That's it's, that's what I enjoy

doing now. So it's but recognizing how

people got to where they're at, absolutely I can, I can see them

now. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I think that's a mark of wisdom, not just in business,

but with people. The people that have really been

through hard things, have fought through hard things, have a lot

more compassion and are a lot more understanding of what

others have been through, maybe why they are the way they are.

Those those that have really lived some life carry stuff with

them and it shows. So I.

Mean we all have scars, yeah. What you do with those scars,

you know what I mean? So.

Oh man, yeah. What major mistake do you wish

you could have avoided? When I read that, that's the,

I'm kind of blessed and I, I don't, I don't have the memory

of an elephant, if that makes sense.

And so I don't, I struggle with that one like trying to, I'm

sure. I mean, I've made hundreds of

mistakes, but to go, what was that major mistake?

Because I, I, I adopted a statement a long time ago of I'm

we and all my guys know it. We make mistakes every single

day. It's just we will not make the

same mistake ever again. I want to learn from it.

When you know, like I was telling you last week, it's it's

you know, we're going through a season right now with some very

significant financial losses and and I make the I make the team

come to me and we just go through it like how did we get

here? And every single one of the

losses was different, but we will put in practices and

protocols to where it won't happen again.

At the end of the day, it was Overwatch it just we, we, we

spread ourselves too thin. Our our leadership team wasn't

watching the jobs and the jobs just got out of hand, out of

hand. And and that's what happened

this season. But but it's just the giving

yourself enough grace, giving the guys enough grace, not

losing your temper and letting them know that it's OK to fail.

We all fail. We fail every day.

It's just don't make the same freaking mistake again.

Learn from it. That's I tell my guys all the

time they they will never make a mistake that cost this company

as much money as I have cost us. So when we make a mistake, let's

sit down, let's talk about it, let's put something in place so

we don't repeat it, and then we move on.

So. Awesome.

It's one of the things we've never put into play.

A, A bonus structure like so many, you know, you know, with

the consultant we hired a couple years ago is like, oh, you got

to put in a performance bonus structure and you know, like

we're selling cars or something. And, and I couldn't get it

through his head that the guys don't lose you money.

You lose money bidding the damn job in the 1st place.

That it's, it's, it's all from the management side.

We we didn't put enough money, you know, we didn't take into

account that that the job was going to start in March when it

rains every freaking day when we're bidding it in August, you

know what I mean? And we don't take into account

that the materials not going to spray in January in in Boise, ID

when the average temperature is 10.

And but it's, it's that those are the big lessons.

Is, is just is, it's all on the estimating side.

That's where that's where you win and lose.

So. See, coming from more the

practitioner side of things, I see how much is won and lost at

the job management side of things and scheduling past

direction material management. So I guess our company probably

runs on almost the opposite philosophy is we we put a lot of

weight on our middle managers and the decisions that they make

because like you said, the biggest mistakes are made in

bidding. But the that that final

efficiency that can make the difference between a big win or

a mediocre job is often found on the job site.

Fair enough. Well, the flip side of that

question, have you ever made a mistake that I call him a

beneficial mistake, a mistake that ended up helping you learn

something, helping you change something, helping you put

something in place that eventually led to success or

helped you grow or develop? Again, I thought of that one.

I'm like never been asked that. That one's tough, kiddo.

It's because, again, every mistake we've grown from.

But no, I should have told you to cancel that one.

Culmination of all the little. Ones, yeah, I mean, I can think

about all the jobs that have gone wrong and the and the

protocols we've put into play. But then I'm like, what did we

learn? Like change, we adjusted, we

adapted, but where it was a major benefit, not so much, you

know what I mean? Like, yeah, no, I'm sorry on

that one. All right, well, that it's

probably a good thing, but I find a lot of entrepreneurs have

have a story where man, they made some huge mistake that just

got twisted into a big win. So I I love asking that

question. Those are interesting stories.

That's fair. I know you work with your wife,

you're both in the office together and run the company

together. Can you speak to that dynamic?

How does that work in the office at home?

Does does work get brought home? Is how you interact change when

you're at home versus when you're on the job?

Yeah. It's that's.

And again, I don't know any different, if that makes sense.

It's because it's been so long, if that makes sense it.

Reba has been, you know, obviously the greatest thing

that ever happened to me and I did not know.

I'll make sure I cut that out and like, use that in the social

media clip. We'll make sure she sees you

saying. That, but I'm married my

opposite and and that's so. So having your wife in the

business doesn't work for everybody.

And I get it. It would not work for AJ and his

wife Beth, but it or Josh and his wife Bailey.

But Reba is my opposite. And so she's our CFO and, and it

started out innocently enough, like all of the mom and pop

companies out there where I'm running the company and she's a,

she's a high school teacher and, and a mom and, and Sunday night

she's running payroll and then it and then fortunately enough,

the business is strong enough and, and she worked her ass off

enough at, at teaching that we paid off her student debt.

She's able to come home and O 6 and and she gets to come home

full time and she's going to be, you know, the, the, you know,

the teacher's assistant and do all the things with the kids.

And she did. It's just we kept growing and,

and it really became full time. We, we damn near killed her in

22 and 23 during all the growth and because she was doing it all

and she's that perfect balance for us.

She brings that. We've always run the company

very Midwest style. I call it where it's it's we

don't leverage everything in One Direction in order to try to to

get a win. We if we can do it, if we have,

if we have cash reserves, if we're going to be able to make

payroll in all those things, right, then we'll do it.

And she's always been that rock that, that, that steadiness that

keeps our ship afloat. And it's funny, the guys all

talk about when, when it comes time for us to retire, it's it's

they're not worried about me leaving, they're worried about

her. So but our daughter is, is, is

starting to fill those shoes and in a couple years she'll have it

and be able to run with it. But, but Reba, you asked about

bringing it home. I mean, it's, it's we wake up in

the morning and we, we work out together.

We, we have breakfast and then we go to the office and we're

there all day and then come home and, and it's, it's yeah, we're,

we're around each other all the time business.

The kids have grown up with the. With the business is talked

about everywhere, you know what I mean?

It's just part of it's our life. It's it's, you know, it's it's

this generation is all concerned about work life balance and it's

like, yeah, the way you have work life balance is that work

is always there and life is always there.

You just do it all at the same time.

It's there's no, there's no turning it off.

You know what I mean? It's yeah, but, but yeah, she's

the greatest blessing in my life, Absolutely.

So you can say that. Awesome.

Yeah, that's great to hear. And you said 30 years you guys

have been together. 30 years, yeah, we celebrated 30 years

this year and yeah, should get another 30.

Should get another 30 I think if she'll put up with me so.

That's awesome. That's awesome.

All right. What was your biggest win as a

leader? You talked a lot about, you got

really fired up talking about your guys buying homes, moving

their lives forward, kind of developing things.

Is there a a moment that is stood out?

There's kind of been your proudest moment as a leader.

I think I already talked about it.

It's the proudest moment as a leader is just that when we hit

rock bottom in 13 that I didn't quit and and we all know guys

that have hung it up and and went and got JOBS and we didn't

quit and and I reinvented myself.

I figured out that this, this version of Thai Stoler wasn't

getting it done and I needed to. And that's also when I learned

that this version of Thai Stoler needs to keep growing.

And, and so as a leader, it's, it's just the constant, constant

growth of, of reinventing, not reinventing, just reps just,

it's like the weight room. It's just keep doing the reps

just like shooting your boat, keep shooting your boat more

reps and stacking WS on top of each other.

And, and, but one particular moment.

No, it it, it's, it's again at this age and this long in the

business area, you just kind of look back and go, it just, I

didn't expect to be this successful.

It just and sometimes I look back and I'm like, it's just a

fairy tale like I, I'm, I'm, I look back and I'm like, huh, how

do we get here? And it's just because I didn't

stop. Does that make sense?

I didn't, I didn't just every day was another.

You just went, you know what I mean?

You just one foot in front of the other.

I mean, I'm using all the freaking coach speak right

there, but it's it's that's that's kind of how I did it.

Our friend Jim likes to say you don't have to be the best, you

just have to outlast the rest. That's 100% that that I haven't

let him say that, but that's, that's it.

That's that's how I look back on everything.

When we moved to Oregon, we were the smallest.

We were the smallest Culkin Waterproofing company here.

And now, you know, and I look back up at these, these other

two or three companies and, and now they're just shadows of what

they used to be. And, and their guys all want to

come to work for us. And it's, it's, we're just,

yeah, stacking WS. It's just, we keep doing what we

do and the guys will want to join you and keep doing it as

well. So.

Yeah. Awesome.

What gives you the motivation to keep going when things get tough

tough and just to keep pushing? Where does that come from?

Again, we, we talked about it a little bit, which is just that

absolute fear of failure of, of letting everybody down because

again, I have enough money, you know, the house is paid for.

Like I'm OK, but they're not, you know what I mean?

And it's just, it's just, and then you, you do hit an age

where you're just like, I have so much to give back.

And, and so I'd be letting God down on, on my talents if I

didn't give back. But it's, that's the, that's the

motivation. And then, and then, and then I,

I did, you know, another difficult time we had was, was

we had a, a former employee that I, that I hired came from the

manufacturer's Rep. He was a manufacturer's Rep and

we brought him on and, and he's going to be a salesman.

We give him his own division. And, and I knew going in that he

was a broken soul, that he didn't just a bad background

and, and, and his employment here only lasted about six

months. And, and, and it just, it was

pretty ugly there at the end because I just, I thought our

culture was strong enough to turn him, but the greed was, was

just too great in his soul. And, and so thus he goes off and

he hooks up with another company and builds them up and, and just

hurts us for a period of, of two years.

And I mean, hurts us where there is nothing worse.

I, I quit counting at 8 million on lost jobs where we were

second place. And I know it went double that

where it was second place, second place, second place.

And we're not like in the roofing business where you'll

have where I shouldn't call it roofing business, but just we're

not in a saturated market where there's ten guys bidding,

there's only three of us. And this guy took it all.

And, and that's when I again, going through my Bible and I run

into the Psalms of David and you just, and I learned like, like

it's OK to pray against your enemies and let God do the work

and, and just get it off of your conscience and off a, you know,

just off of your shoulders and just God, this guy, this enemy

was absolutely trying to destroy your company.

I need you to take care of him. You know that I am a righteous

man. I mean, I'm going deep and it's

some guys are going to listen to this and go, are you freaking

shitting me? But it got me through of, of

just listening to David's dark times in the caves when Saul was

chasing him. And and it's just like, yeah,

that's what I leaned on. Was just was, you know, if David

can do it, I can do it. Yeah, great.

You talked a lot about kind of coming out of Sawtooth,

Independence Day and developing yourself as a leader, really

becoming a leader for the first time.

Are there any key resources that you would recommend to somebody

or anything that has had a particular weight in shaping

your leadership? Again, the key again, I already

talked about it was the was the Dave Ramsey entre leadership

stuff and and nowadays what that's morphed into doesn't

exactly apply to me and and you and I talked about that already,

but at the time going back 12 years was that stuff was so

invaluable. And then reading his book, so I

know it'll relate to so many guys.

Just dive into that entre leadership book because it is

literally a road map on on how to run a company that they don't

teach you in school that you know, your buddies and and and

your friends can't tell you how to go through the stuff that

you're going through. But Dave Ramsey in that silly

book lays it all out just plain as day.

And I've read all the other books.

I mean, I've read Atomic Habits and, and all of Jocko's stuff.

And at that point it all those all just kind of stack on each

other and enforce, you know, it's kind of like Legos.

I'm just like, I'm building my, my walls of, of, of knowledge.

And and so I'm always reading, you know, I'm always reading

something that is going to better myself.

And then podcast wise, I'm I've gotten more into the there's a

great one out of Boise called Ever onward with Tom Tommy

Alquist that I lean on and there's a lot of wisdom coming

out. He interviews a lot of

influential people in the Boise market and I know it doesn't

retain to or pertain to a lot of the guys, but just the wisdom

that these doers are are, you know, they're all doing what

we've done, You know what I mean?

They're building their stuff and, and then they've gone

through the same, they've made the same mistakes and, and, and

whatnot. And, but yeah, Jocko stuff is

good, really good. And then I just finished Dan

Martel is a tech guy out of Austin and, and he had a book in

23 called Buy Back, Buy Back Your Time.

And I wish, I wish I would have read that five years ago, but I,

I just finished that one. And we did it as a, as a old

school, like book club with, with my management guys, because

AJ is absolutely has to be in control at all times.

And so our business now is in a bottleneck because AJ can't

delegate and let other guys, he, he, he just cannot handle

somebody else failing. And even though he's, he's

watched me where I'm like, they have to fail once in order for

you to coach him through that failure.

And so we, we did that book as a group, as, as a team.

And there is so many Nuggets in there of, of, of just tricks

that you can use to just literally free up the

practitioner mindset and go to more of a leadership mindset

and, and, and buy back your time.

So. Yeah, that's awesome.

I like I've heard it called the 70% rule or the 80% rule, either

one, the 80%, if somebody can do it 80% as well as you can, it's

time to let them run with it. It's.

So often through that book, I, I was like, oh, I already do that.

I already like I, I found that I because of all of the things

I've read and all the things that I've done, it wasn't new

knowledge, but it was like, I shouldn't say it wasn't new

knowledge. It was just kind of like, oh, I

already do that. I was already doing it and it's

just like, OK. But now Dan's writing it there

in such a way that AJ can see it and grasp onto it and and make

the adjustments we need to pay. 80% rule was a game changer

because I'm like, that's how I've always ran it.

It's it's, it's not that hard. It's the 80% rule for anybody

that doesn't know what it is. It's like 80% of the task being

done is worth 100% of your time. Am I getting that right?

That's similar to what I've heard.

That's probably Dan's version of it.

The the version I heard was if they can do it 80% as well as

you can, you turn it over and let them take it.

But yeah, similar principle. So awesome.

This is my favorite question. You've talked a little bit about

it. I wanted to circle back one more

time. You've shared a little bit about

your faith, that you are a person of faith and a Jesus

follower. How is that shaped your

leadership and shaped the growth of your business?

The cool part is that the cool part is that I became a Christ

follower about a year into the business.

And so I don't know any different if that makes sense.

The business and and so and it's a great story how I came to

Christ was just some people are probably going to laugh.

It's I wasn't an atheist. I just was an unbeliever, a non

believer and, and my wife grew up in the church and, and, and,

and to prove to everybody that I was a non believer that when my

daughter was baptized and Reba took her to, to our local church

that she'd been attending for, for a couple months and invited

her whole family. I didn't go because I'm like, I,

I'm not going to church. And then and then I was kind of

a big NASCAR fan and, and Dale Earnhardt died at at Daytona.

And, and there is this like this moment, the weeks after where I

went, you know, life's life's a little fragile.

And I'm this is 23 years ago, no, 24 years ago.

And, and so Reba's getting up to go to church and, and, and I go,

can I come and I go to church and, and immediately kind of

taken in and, and it took about six months of just going.

And one day they do a, one day they do an altar call and, and I

remember, and we're all standing for some reason, like singing

something and they do an altar call.

And, and just like those old, old movies from the, the 20s

where there's this gigantic cane where they would pull people off

the stage and like this hook, I literally felt the hook pulling

me to the aisle to go like it was just time.

And, and the coolest part from day one.

And then, and then, and then half an hour, 40 minutes later,

church is over. We stop at the convenience store

to fuel up on the way home. And, and I felt the Holy Spirit,

like I just like felt everything enter me at that moment, all the

tangles, everything. And I look back on my faith and

it's, I don't question it. So many people are struggle with

their faith because they're always questioning different

aspects of theology and religion and whatnot.

And it's just plain as day that that Jesus gave our gave his

life for all of us. And, and I don't question any of

it. And so I'm able to just move

through life very innocently and diligently, you know, just like

one of his sheep, if that makes sense, you know what I mean?

And what, what it has taught me then over the years is, is just

patience and grace building, building the practices of, of

Jesus, of, of, you know, my prayer time is, is kind of

unconventional. I'm looking out at the, the cold

plunge and I guarantee you nobody prays like I do where I,

I literally pray in the cold plunge because my mind can shut

down and I just, I, I, I get to look out at, at, you know, our

beautiful backyard and, and all of nature And I just, I'm there

with God and, and, and I just, and it's just, I'm free, if that

makes sense. And, and, and I just start my

day every day like that. And, and then, and then, of

course, the dopamine hits from the cold plunge and, and, and

then the coffee hits and I'm just like, let's go.

Like I what more do I need? You know, that's awesome.

But it's it's, you know, and I've done church leadership,

I've done back to the other part of faith that it taught me was,

was was giving of of it because my faith was so simple.

And so many people get hung up on on their money being theirs.

And, and I didn't, I, you know, because I'm reading the Bible

and I see plain as day that our first, our first fruits should,

is obviously God's and, and should go to God to honor.

And it's, it's so I, it, it was easy for me to tithe, if that

makes sense. And then, and then the coolest

part about tithing is just doing it.

And then you just look back and you go look at everything else

that God blesses us with as soon as we do it.

And. And it's going to take a lot for

that that one guy listening right now that's like this guy

is full of crap. But the moment that you do it

and you just let go and, and you, you tithe on, you tithe on,

on the money that you make. And it's just like, it is

amazing how much more God blesses you with as soon as you

are free with that, that greedy heart.

If that makes sense that that's, that's stingy stinginess that

the Pharisees had, you know what I mean?

So. Yeah, I heard a quote.

I'm losing the reference right now.

I can't remember it, but it's one of my favorite quotes.

Says if you don't believe money can buy happiness, you obviously

haven't given enough of it away. And then yeah, give, giving,

giving money, giving of ourselves, serving others is

really where happiness lies. 100% yeah I love.

That and I discovered very quickly that I am not a giver of

time. It is, it is, it is not it does

not make me happy serving, serving but but my gifts are

aren't there. I mean, that's just not what it

is. And so I found out what my gifts

were, and that's what I that's where I roll with it.

So yeah. Well, it sounds like you do a

lot of serving to the guys that work under you as well.

I think serving can look like a lot of different things.

Yeah. Awesome.

You've mentioned the cold plunge.

You work out everyday spiritual practices.

It seems like you put a fair amount of effort into taking

care of yourself. How important is that for a

business leader when we're all so busy and things are going

1,000,000 miles an hour and you have more to do than you can do?

How do you find time and how important is that?

And it wasn't always like this, obviously.

It's, it's when I was first starting out.

Like I never even started working out until I was, you

know, from high school to probably 38, you know, I was

just like the average American where, you know, I'm not, you

know, we talk about dad bod and that's what I had dad bod, you

know, and it, and then when I really built the business five

years ago and we started really climbing.

I remember I was doing CrossFit and I'm not a, there's a

CrossFit gym in, in a great one in our, that they rent from us

in our buildings. And, and, but I'm not really a

CrossFit guy. I, I, I'm more of just a, a

lifting guy. And, and I remember, I remember

telling Faustino I go, OK, we're going to go build this rib and I

decide we're going to go build this.

I don't have time to work out. And I went, I went like 2 years

of I call him fun tie where I just, I, I ran the business.

I, the guys that come home from work and I literally would drink

beer starting, I'd start drinking beer at noon and have

beers at lunch. Take a little bit of a break.

The guys that come home at 3:00, drink with them.

Come home, watch Yellowstone or, or, or 1923 and have A, and have

a Pendleton and Coke and, you know, and I started counting it

up and it's like I'm, I'm up to 10 beers a day and, and at least

2 cocktails. And, and then I had my little

health scare and went in simply enough to, to get, as we all, as

we get older, there's the lack of testosterone.

So I go, oh, maybe that's what it is.

And, and go get that tested and, and found out my blood, my

ferritin levels were absolutely off the charts, like off the

charts. The none of the doctors had ever

seen anything that high and which just makes your blood

super, super thick. And, and they're like, we're not

going to give you testosterone. And I go give me the damn

testosterone. And the same CrossFit coach put

me on a nutrition plan and it literally just, I just went

through a four month transition or transformation where I just

kind of just started making the habits and making the time for

myself. And, and you know, at the same

time, read AI read a silly book from a from a nail.

See Navy SEAL commander called make your bed.

And Oh yeah. And again, there's nothing in

that book that we haven't heard 100 times.

But to this day, I make my bed every day because it's just the

if, if I do that one thing and it's, it's just stacking WS and,

and I cold plunge because, you know, we've all heard Joe Rogan

say it. And it's like, don't let the

inner bitch win the day. And it's, it's like, OK, I'm

going to go get in the cold plunge today whether I want to

or not. And, and, and I did find, if

anybody's listening that is even thinking about the cold plunge,

it takes a month, but it is 100%.

It's not about the dopamine hit or it's not about the the true

health benefits. It is about the fight or flight

instincts that our body all has. And now two years later, I do

not get stressed out. I kid you not, I could have, I

could have major things happen in the company and I literally,

I just, I can absolutely stay calm and control myself because

of the brain chemistry is working the way it should.

And but again, as leaders, you have to do this stuff.

We, we, we don't put in the time for it, but we have to do this

stuff in order to, in order to. I want to get the words right,

Eric. It's to fulfill ourselves

because the business will always be the business.

You'll have dipshit employees every Monday that call in sick.

You'll have GCS that don't have the job ready when you show up

and you just wasted half a day's drive to get there.

But by taking care of yourself and, and having the practices in

play literally just set you on a pathway to where OK, I took care

of myself, everything else, my marriage is the best it is ever

been. My relationship with the kids is

the best it's ever been. It's it's, I'm the happiest I've

ever been. So it's, it's all just with

little, I mean, it's what, hour and a half a day?

So that's what I do. Awesome.

All right, Well, we're getting close here.

I have a few more questions. You've been building your

business five years. You said that it's really kind

of grown up. It's blowing up.

You're in multiple markets. You've been doing this 25 years

now. What's next?

It is. I'm 53 and I kind of have this

landing spot of I want to go out in a perfect world, I want to go

out when I'm 60. But even now I'm struggling

with, I ask guys, I ask older guys, like what do you do with

your time? Because I'm not going to golf

like I love golf. I'm, I can, I can, I can see the

golf course right now out the window.

It's a mile, you know, it's right over those trees right

there. But I see the guys.

I can't do that every day. I there's only so much you can

travel. There's like, I don't know what

I'm going to do or, you know, I don't know why I would pick a

date of when I'm going to get off the train.

I'm, I'm, I kind of picked one of it'll be when I'm 60, but

without grandkids yet. And that's back to the when I

asked guys what they do, it's, it's the grandkids change

everything is what I'm told and I cannot wait.

Right now. I just have grand hounds and

they but it business wise it is it is just hammering down the

message of of we're going to continue to grow to create more

seats on the bus for more guys. We're going to were we made some

changes again, life lessons of of we just implemented getting

rid of the little jobs. We again, this may be relatable

to some fellas, but but take this number, we build 2.5

million last month and build 94 jobs and, and hit the point of

like that's why we started losing money is, is well that's

why we've had our losses is that's just too many jobs.

And so we kind of implemented a, a floor and, and so, you know,

we, we were catching a couple of our PMS were building $900 jobs

and, and it's like a $900 job takes just as much PME project

manager energy as a $20,000 job. It just does, it takes that

much, it takes the same amount of scheduling, mind power,

material gathering, you know, all the things, all the things

we all know. And, and so we kind of set this

floor of 15 to 20 grand and we're going to go after, you

know, larger jobs. And the goal is that next year

we will actually go brick and mortar in, in, in the Salt Lake

officially. They're having just as much

growth as Boise and, and we know it'll be a fight going down

there. I'm not expecting to have the

same results as we have in in our current market, but I know

that we can go down there and, and again, just using everything

that we've always done be successful.

And then another opportunity that's popped up that again, and

that's how at the very beginning you talked about the job that we

shared last year is that we have figured out how to go on the

road when so many other companies can't.

And, and, and it's it's we can put guys on a plane and have

them, you know, have them fly into Wyoming and we can be

working on a data center in Cheyenne.

I mean, that's kind of the goal. And you know, only one guy has

to drive over. We just leave the truck over

there and just fly in and out of Cheyenne and and a lot of guys

just get hung up on, you know, they think that their market is

just their market. And if you're good at what you

do, you take these larger mega projects and it's they just,

they, they need us more than we need them.

And, and so, and we found our, our margins are just incredible.

When we, when, when we do this, obviously we pay our people very

well. We pay a $100 a day per diem on

top of and, and we, we get them the Airbnb and on top of that.

So it's really almost AI mean they just got to pay for their

own food at that point. But I don't want to sell the

company, which is very common. There's too many people that

have been in the trenches with us.

I don't want to just pass that on to another outfit that is

that doesn't care about the guys like we do and did.

And so I'd rather do it like you did, where it's, it's so we,

what we ended up doing is we AJ and Josh are, are minority

owners. And then eventually our daughter

will be, she'll start taking our shares, if that makes sense.

And so I never thought about legacy.

It was never a concern Again. This was always just a cash cow

of, of this was just a, it was just a a little culking company,

you know, and but now, you know, we're the, we have something

pretty damn special. And and so just maintaining that

culture and taking care of the people and, and, but, but

conveying the message of growth is, is what it is what it takes.

I mean, that's the, I wish I could say, hey, we're just going

to take a big old breather and we're going to stay right here

and we're just going to take care of our stuff and build our

war chest. But it's you got to go where the

opportunity comes. You can't be afraid, you know

what I mean? So.

Yeah, that's the entrepreneur spirit there.

Yeah. So, so that's kind of the Reba

is on a different plan and and this will be a good Reba's on a

different plan. She started her second master's

degree two years ago and she has about she's halfway through in

divinity, I think, and I'm probably getting that wrong, but

it's through Liberty University and with and she doesn't know

where God's going to lead her. I I have the business plan

already drawn up. She just won't listen to me.

But she is an incredible speaker and teacher in the women's

ministry world, very much like our friend Jim, where, you know,

she can just walk into that, you know, she can walk on that stage

and just give tell stories and create a curriculum that just

really relates to these ladies. And and I'm like, babe, you've

helped me every step of the way. It's just, I'm ready to jump in

the motorhome and we'll just go, you know, we'll do a ladies

conference in Birmingham and then run up to Nashville and

we'll just, we'll just take the show on the road and, and, and

preach your message and, and help these ladies find their

true selves and, and you know, but we'll see where that goes.

So when she when she decides to step away in in two to three

years, then, you know, we'll see where it goes.

But but right now we're just really Eric, we're just really

happy. We're very blessed so.

Good, that's awesome. Who would you like to see on the

show? Is there somebody that has an

awesome story or a cool industry you'd like to learn more about?

Do you have any ideas of somebody we could invite on the

show? You're going to laugh.

It's it's yeah, there's one that that would be interesting.

It's it's our insurance guy. And I've yet to meet this guy,

but our insurance guy has like we're collaborating with this

fellow up out of Vancouver called Pacific.

His name's Mike. He owns Pacific Foundations and,

and they and they are in Hawaii and all over the West.

They just opened up in in, in Boise and, and they just take

these gigantic machines and they with the augers and they just

literally build these monster. They've been out at Micron the

whole time. And, and he did it differently

than we've done it. I mean, he, he came from an

engineering background and it's just, I would love.

And in fact, AJ and I are going up there in the next month.

It's nothing set in stone, but we were just literally going to

go up and just find out how did you, how did you build it?

You know what I mean? And then, yeah.

And then exactly 1 year ago today, Dad used to do this in

the Turkey business is where I got the idea is he would travel

back to North Carolina or Minnesota.

Those are kind of the hotbeds of, of the Turkey industry back

in the 80s. And, and he just go back and,

and see how guys were doing it. And again, in our world, it's so

hard to go do that because guys think that you're going to steal

their ideas or you're going to be competition.

And, and so I came across an outfit on LinkedIn and out of

Southern California, out of Orange, CA and called Mark

Beamish Waterproofing. And it's second generation now.

Adam runs the company. And I knew that we would never

be competition because there's no damn way Sawtooth is ever

going to the great state of California.

And that's the one license we will never go get and and.

I call up Adam and and we hit it off so well and and then I load

up my team and we flew down there and he's he's right there

by Disneyland and we spend the full day and we just ask him.

And again, I went down there just to fix our estimating

program. I'm like we are missing

opportunities. We are, we have, we aren't

collecting any of our data worth a shit.

And I just, it's just one of those things as an owner, you're

just like, you know, something's wrong.

And so we go down there and the coolest freaking thing happened

is, is you know, he takes us behind the scenes and we figure

out really quick that even though we do a lot of the same

things, we don't. And, and it's, it's relatable,

but not relatable. And, and, but he over lunch, he

goes, you know, I've just, I've been doing this a long time and

I ran into a tech buddy of mine and I want to start a tech

company that that helps subcontractors.

And so the plug is for anybody listening is, is sub smart, is

the company he created. And, and we're one of his first,

you know, we're helping him build it.

And it's a, it's literally going to be a platform that from the

invitation to bid, when it comes in, it goes into the system.

Our estimators assign it to an estimator.

We run the whole proposal. Everything's done on that

platform, goes to the project managers to put their stamp of

approval, goes out, we get the job, then it goes to the

project, the assistant project managers do the submittals and

then it literally and then it literally goes out into the

field. Everybody's able to put all

their pictures, all the drawings are on all on one platform.

Even the Billings will all be on one platform.

I'll literally be able to be sitting on a beach, pull up my

phone, hit the app and know what our win rate is currently on all

of our jobs. And, and, and it's, it's those

types of blessings where you just kind of put yourself out

there, which is what you're doing right now.

But it's it's like that is the game changer of that's going to

separate us from that, you know, being the mom and pop of where

we have all that information and and we're able to just to

instead of having four different excel programs and and mistakes

made, you know, all the things that we've all gone through our

whole lives and it's all going to be under one tech platform is

just incredible. So awesome.

So Adam Beam would be he's yeah, he's flying in and and flying in

in two weeks. We've been we've become great

friends, but just doing the same thing that you and I are doing

right now. So Adam Beam, it's that's great.

And Mike Pacific Foundations, that'd be those would be great

for going on. And yeah.

Yeah, Well, if you don't mind making an introduction, I'd, I'd

love to give them a pitch and get them on if we can.

That, that sounds great. I want to get on that app.

That would be that'd be great. We we go live and we're already

on it from the estimating site standpoint, but the IT fully

goes live like January 1st. So I'll let you know.

So we're excited. Awesome.

Well, our last question here, I don't know if we're fueling or

settling the debate, but everybody argues over the best

cordless tool. What's your go to?

In our world, it's there aren't many options that pertain to us,

but Milwaukee is, is they came out with a culking gun and that

was a game changer for us because it's all on the M18

battery system. And it talked about taking care

of your guys because in the culking world, our guys have

these forearms that are twice as big as their, as their left arm.

You know what I mean? And all of a sudden we're just

flying through the material now. And so we are, we're big red

here, just like all of our all of our trucks are all red.

So it's all Milwaukee. Is that the right answer for you

or what? Personally I'm a DeWalt guy but

I don't do caulking, so to each of.

Those their own, you know. Well, thank you so much.

This really has been a pleasure. I've looked up to you from afar

for a long time and have enjoyed getting to know you over the

last couple years. I really appreciate you coming

on the show and just telling us about yourself.

We want to, yeah, just give the world an eye into the guys that

run blue collar businesses. And I think it can still be done

today. I think there's a lot of leaders

in the next generation that have huge opportunity to dive in and

be an entrepreneur and build an incredible life in the blue

collar space. So thank you.

I really appreciate this opportunity.

This was great and hopefully I didn't talk too much and if

anybody listening wants to reach out to me, feel free and you can

find me at Sawtooth Fortified. And I would love to help anybody

just answer a silly little question if if they got it

because more than likely I've made that mistake and and I can

help them through so but OK, will do.

Thank you all for joining us here on From the Ground Up Show.

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We'll see you here next week. Keep grinding.