Merv Zook – The Last Man Standing: Faith, Family, and finding God’s path in the Trades

He goes, why do you work so hard?

Why are you always, you know, working all,

trying to prove yourself.

Why are you working so hard?

I said, because when they closed the doors, I want to be the last guy they can get rid of.

I want them to not be able to afford to get rid of me.

That's why I work.

around here.

It's been kind of my motto.

And here I am.

I guess I'm the last man standing.

I count how many cars are in the parking lot and I go, yeah, I'm responsible.

Not only those people that drive those cars, but their wives, their kids.

Um, it, um, that was the scariest part and just, um, being responsible for others' livelihoods.

Um, and I can remember.

thinking, when am I gonna get used to this?

I think the good Lord just has a plan for you.

And sometimes you don't always know the plan.

Sometimes you just got to put a foot in front of the other one and go down the path

Hey there and welcome to from the ground up show the show where we encourage and inspire the next generation of free thinking leaders by telling the stories of those that have

been there done that and are still getting it done building a life that they love with their hearts their hands and their hustle I am your host Erick Loden thank you guys for

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Today, I am really excited to have Merv Zook joining me Merv is the owner of nice electric located in McMinnville, Oregon He was a co-founder of Lanco mechanical in Pennsylvania

Merv is a father to four Grandfather to four with two more on the way

a husband and a follower of Jesus.

And Merv also happens to be my father.

so this is a fun one for me.

I get to learn some more about the family history and background.

So, Merv, thanks for joining us.

You bet.

Good to be here.

Well, we start every show just learning a little bit about you.

Can you tell me a little bit about your childhood and what it was like growing up?

Sure.

So my parents were missionaries to the Red Lake Indians up in Minnesota.

So I was born in Minnesota.

and a little town of Bidet.

And when I was like five years old, well, I was four, but I turned five when we moved to Oregon back in 1968, so a few minutes ago.

And, we moved out here, come from a large family.

I have seven brothers and one sister.

And uh so yeah, we were all here in Oregon.

Grew up in a little town of Sheridan and Went to grade school in Amity here in town or here in Oregon

So yeah, my childhood was quite interesting, you know, with a bunch of kids and I was the baby of the family.

So of course they all say I was spoiled, but I obviously wasn't.

But no, it was a good childhood.

I had great parents.

They loved Jesus and they taught us a lot of things about faith and hard work and...

yeah, so grew up there in Boston, just outside of Sheridan on a little farm.

And then when I was 17 years old, my father had heart disease and he passed away when I was 17.

So that was a life-changing event for our whole family, obviously.

But for a 17-year-old junior in high school, it was quite traumatic.

So that happened in 1981.

So yeah, that was kind of my childhood growing up, the things that really stick out to me.

Yeah, good childhood.

It seems like that uh hard work and entrepreneurial spirit was something in the family is a lot of your brothers have gone on to be leaders or run businesses and have a role in

Leadership as well, haven't they?

Yeah

Yes, yeah.

So almost to a person, you know, they've been in some sort of leadership role.

You know, my brother Nathan, he owned Amcraft Cabinet Tree here in town.

He just retired.

My brother Delvin ran the retirement home, Rock of Ages, for years, and he just retired as well.

as CEO of uh Rock of Ages.

uh Yeah, I mean, I go down through the list.

My oldest brother Dave, he was a logger and a truck driver.

He owned his own truck.

so yeah, my brother Stan was head filer at the sawmill.

My brother Tim was a preacher and had his own business as a contractor.

Same with my brother Cliff was a contractor.

Then my sister, she married Carrie Nice, who was my brother-in-law from here at Nice Electric.

uh And then my brother Donald

lives in Florida and he's been successful and they have a coffee shop that they run over there uh in North Carolina.

yeah, so there's a bunch of us and we've all been pretty successful.

oh My dad was never a money man.

We didn't have money growing up.

Grew up what I would consider pretty poor.

But I would say we had a roof over our head and food on the table and dad was

dad was more about helping other people and making sure his family was taken care of.

But I know he spent a lot of hours working on used cars and just doing whatever it took to help us survive.

Is there something particular from the way that you were raised that you think led to that?

drive and entrepreneurial spirit that all seven of you kind of wound up in that

realm?

uh

growing up I knew what it was to be poor.

And I was always kind of driven, not necessarily by the money, but more just...

I didn't want to be poor.

And I wanted to be able to pass some sort of legacy, financial legacy, as well as Christian legacy onto my family.

I don't know, I guess people sometimes would call me a penny pincher because I was always saving a nickel for a rainy day because I had seen it rain.

And so, yeah, for me personally, that...

was part of a driving force to provide for my family and not always just be barely on the edge of getting by.

But

Well, it seems like you've certainly been successful in that endeavor.

All four of your kids are grown, married, successful in their own right, and all four of them love Jesus and are pursuing the Lord.

m

we are so blessed.

It's rare to family that is as connected.

and uh united in their faith as yours.

So you did something right.

I appreciate that I credit their mom mostly Yeah Yeah, so em

Part of my growing up, I feel like I've lived three different lives, pretty much.

I grew up in a little town of Boston, like I said, and then going to a Mennonite church, a very conservative way to live.

uh then I went to college for a couple years over in uh Treasure Valley in Ontario, Oregon.

I know you had Ty Stoller on.

We kind of joke around.

We both were from Chucker U, which is Treasure Valley.

And uh so I went there for a couple years and made a lot of friends there.

And then uh in 1985, I decided to kind of go see the world a little bit.

And so I left Oregon and moved to Ohio.

And actually that's where I met the Lord in Ohio and turned my life over to him.

And then I went down to Florida for a while, a couple of months working on a farm and

wasn't quite ready to come back home to work and so I moved to Pennsylvania.

Got a job working at a church camp over there just south of Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

So that's how I ended up in Pennsylvania in 1985.

And then I was like, I kind of like it after I got done with the summer job.

Maybe I'll get a job and stick around for six months or so.

So that's how.

I started.

I was looking for a job and

went to the local lumber yard and they offered me a job.

I could drive forklift for five bucks an hour.

And then I went to another place and they did uh plumbing, uh HVAC and electrical.

And they offered me a job for five bucks an hour.

And

then they said, well, what do want to do?

You want to be a plumber?

You want to be an HVAC guy?

Or you want to be an electrician?

I said, I don't know.

What do you need?

And they said, well, we kind of need electrician.

You want to try that?

I said, sure.

So that's how I started as an electrician in 1985.

worked at a company called Haller Enterprises.

And Rick Haller gave me a job and a good opportunity.

And I appreciate what he gave to me in that opportunity.

um

Pennsylvania there was no licensing like Oregon so you could just work hard and work your way up and you know if you could learn the trade in a reasonable amount of time you could

get your own van and be on the road.

So that's what I did and worked hard and

about six months or so after I started working there, I'd learned how to wire a house and they gave me a van and I got out on the road.

And so I had my own van.

working for Haller Enterprises.

Did that for about three years.

Then Rick gave me the opportunity to come in the office and help manage and schedule.

do that.

So that's kind of how I moved my way up into the electrical trade and they got opportunities to do estimating and running schedules and did that for another three years.

So I worked for Rick Haller for like six years.

in 1991, my buddy Glenn Weaver was working there as well and him and I started talking about the possibilities of maybe starting our own shop.

He was a plumber.

I was electrician.

Uh, we were good friends.

In fact, I had lived with him and his wife, Kay, for a while.

Uh, when I was just looking for a place to live when I was in Pennsylvania.

So, uh, we, we good buddies went way back and,

you know, known him for several years at that point in time.

So...

We started talking about it and then at one point I said to Glenn, I said, I'm doing this.

If you want to come, you need to decide if you want to do it or not.

He's like, whoa, I didn't know we were fighting that serious.

I'm like, well, I'm doing it.

I'm going to start my own business.

He came back and said, yep, let's do it.

Best choice we ever made.

So we started a...

company called Lanko from Lancaster County with the name and Lanko Mechanicals because we didn't want to pigeonhole ourselves into one you know if we wanted to start an HVAC

company or something we didn't want to be like Lanko Plumbing and Electrical we wanted to be mechanical so that's kind of why we decided on that name and yeah the two of us started

out just went out and bought a van and kind of

funny story because, uh, Glenn, when we bought the van, Glenn took it home.

We were all proud.

We had a new van and he backed the van out of his driveway and ran into his Howler enterprises pickup truck that he still had in the driveway before, like two days before we

quit at Howler's.

yeah, so that was unfortunate, but, uh, least it was Glenn and not me.

But yeah, it was a funny story.

It was rough, didn't have a lot of Borrowed some money from private people Chris is my wife's dad, my father-in-law, loaned us some money to get started and yeah, was kind of

just a jump.

Here we go.

Oh man.

Was there a particular...

Incident or drive that kind of drove you to go all in or

Yeah, I don't know Rick had hired some new people new management he's changing his management style and kind of changed the The atmosphere and the uh format of what was

going to happen in Howlers

And we went from working directly for Rick to working for Rick's right-hand man.

So we weren't like...

originally we were kind of like second in command almost, like you know what mean, we were partners and in that we were his management team.

uh And I wasn't a big fan.

And I decided well, I'll be my own manager I guess.

so that's kind of how that

happened.

Yeah.

Were there any hard feelings when you left to start your own shop?

It was a little rough because I mean Rick had given us the opportunity and we'd worked there for a long time.

or Glenn had worked there longer than me.

in fact, I think Glenn was kind of the first guy that Rick hired as far as a plumbing manager.

Um, so it was, it was, it was not an easy transition in that regard.

but it was one of those things that we just, um, felt we needed to do for our families.

And, um, but again, I, I give a shout out to Rick.

he was a good boss and,

yeah you know looking back on it I wish it could have ended a little different.

um just because of that whole dynamic of, you know, your two top guys are leaving and all at once, you know.

So, yeah, I'm sure that was some hard decisions for him to try to fill the shoes and keep things rolling.

But, um I mean, he's built an empire out of Howler Enterprises from when we left.

Yeah, he's done well.

Good, good.

So it's just you and Glenn, you have one van doing electrical and plumbing.

I mean, what did those early days look like?

How do you start with two guys in a van and build the thriving company that's there today?

Well, so to be honest with you, mean,

a lot of the company that is today of Lanco Mechanicals happened after I left and moved and sold my half to Glenn.

When we started out, were, we worked together for about five years from 91 to 96.

And we just worked hard.

mean we worked, I mean Glenn was probably a more of a hard worker than I was to be honest.

in that, you know, we worked Saturdays and we were working all the time and we'd get home like after dark sometimes, or we'd come home and have dinner and go back out and work some

more, because we had to get the jobs done for the next day.

Being a small business owner, especially like,

two guys or whatever and you've got deadlines, you gotta do it.

You gotta make it happen.

got so, and Glenn used to always tell me, well, know, the Lord rested on the seventh day, not the sixth day.

So we're working on Saturday.

I'm like, ah, come on, man.

I got a boat.

I want to go out on the river, right?

But uh no, we made a good team and his kids would come out and help clean up the job sites and things like that.

uh

got a lot of good memories of working together with Glenn.

Yeah.

oh

Can you tell us a little bit about the decision to sell that business and move and You'd started that company from scratch with one of your best friends.

I imagine that was a hard transition

ah

the rest of my life.

I always kind of wanted to come home back to Oregon.

And even, I don't regret the move, but there was a lot of times that I questioned whether it was the right move.

um Because number one, we went from having a successful business and making a fair amount of money.

moving to Oregon and being...

being one of the workers out on the field again and having no say in the company and having just basically going to working for someone again.

it was, was a little rough.

It was just, psychologically, and whatnot, just kind of starting over, I would say in a way.

And,

you know Glenn I'd go back to visit and Glenn would be talking about the success with the company and how you know they were growing and things were happening and

we'd have conversations about, well, maybe if I came back, what would it look like?

And we, we, know, we did have those conversations and for a while it was, yeah, the doors open, you know, you could always come back and we could always have a spot for you in

Lanko.

um

buy back in, or whatever that might have looked like.

But ultimately, I think in my heart, I knew that was not gonna happen.

uh I talked to Glenn.

Glenn passed away in 2020 from COVID, but before he passed away, he, him and I talked and he said, we were kind of taking bets that you'd come back.

We thought, we thought you'd come back.

Um, but, uh, ultimately we stuck it out and we stayed here in Oregon and

it's worked out.

Good.

And so now, at the current time anyway, no regrets making that decision?

No.

I mean, I still kind of go in my head sometimes, you know, what if, what if you would have stayed?

What would that look like?

What would my, what would my life look like?

What would my kid's life look like?

Um, but, uh, you know, I think the good Lord just has a plan for you.

And sometimes you don't always know the plan.

Sometimes you just got to put a foot in front of the other one and go down the path and, uh

When you get to the end of the journey, you you look back and go, that was the journey you had for me, you know?

I know some people, have this lifelong dream and everything's gonna be about what's the next step or, you know, I've always kind of lived my life just following the path that's

in front of me, yeah.

It's worked for me.

Good deal.

yeah.

So that brings us back to Oregon.

think getting a lot closer to Nice Electric.

Is that where you came to work when you moved back?

Yeah, so when I moved to

Oregon, I mean, I had no job.

I had to, I studied like crazy in Pennsylvania because you had to pass, not like you're coming to Oregon, you have all your journeyman licensing and everything like that.

And I had to document all my work hours, even though I had a business and I'd been in the trade for six years.

You know, I couldn't just come here and say, Hey, I'm an electrician, you know?

But I had to document my hours that I had studied.

I went to night school in Pennsylvania as well and that helped.

But then also, I mean, we just...

When I got here, at that time I had two kids and a wife and house payments and all the things and I couldn't come and not have a job.

Right?

So I came prepared and

as soon as I got here, I went and sat for the journeyman test within a week or two, I had set it up and I had gotten practice tests and things like that from the state of Oregon

before I ever got here.

So I spent.

days studying before I got here.

when I couldn't, I didn't want to fail the test and have to wait another month before I could go to work.

So yeah, I studied hard and got here and passed the test on the first try.

And was very excited.

And so yeah, that's kind of how we started.

And then I started doing some job interviews.

But the most promising one was talking to Gary Nice, my brother-in-law.

But we were both a little nervous about

you know working together because we're related and Gary oh

those opinions that he was concerned that, you know, how's this going to look because him and I got along great.

And ultimately we decided to give it a try.

And I started working for him in, I think it was the beginning of August and we had moved here at the beginning of July.

Okay.

Have, uh, or I guess, do you know, have those rules and regulations changed much as has Pennsylvania adopted licensure for electricians?

Um, I think you, I mean, you do have

to have some for like the cities, which I did, it was sort of like that.

I don't think they've changed a whole lot.

Oregon hasn't changed much.

It's still tough to, uh not only do you have to have a journeyman license, but if you want to sign permits or, um you know, they have what they call plan reviews where they send you

plans and you have to figure out the server size and things like that, you have to have a supervisor's license to do that.

It's basically like signing off on an engineering on plans when you put your signature as a supervisor.

On the electrical part, it's stamped as approved basically.

So you have to be a journeyman, well, an apprentice for four years, then a journeyman working under a supervisor for four years, so that's eight years in, then you can sit uh

for the test as a supervisor.

And it's not an easy test, uh but...

takes a lot of study and unfortunately I think it does, sometimes it does guys at disservice because they're very smart, they do a great job, they know the trade, they can

do the work, they just can't take the test.

I've seen several really good tradesmen that couldn't take the test and they just run away.

to do the job.

It's unfortunate.

That is yeah, I think a lot of the people that wind up in the trades are very Smart talented people that just don't like the school environment and maybe don't necessarily

test very well they like working with their hands they like getting dirty and doing stuff and In order to do that in the electrical world.

You still have to go back to school.

Yeah Looking back on it when I started in the trade

I'm

one of Lanko Mechanical's top guys.

He struggled with dyslexia, right?

So he really had a hard time just spelling the words.

They were always coming out backwards.

When he started working with me, I said, you're going to need to learn these words so that you can at least label the panel.

And he did.

He went home and he studied, and he could do it.

And he could do the job really well.

In fact, like I said, he's one of the top tradesmen as far as service work and whatever, problem solving.

know, hard worker, providing for his family, doing a great job.

But if he came to Oregon, they would never allow him to be an electrician.

It's just...

parts of that just don't seem right to me.

Yeah.

So I know you went to college for a while and then did the job of an electrician and then sat for all the tests.

Which was more difficult, the college education or the electrical education?

well,

I went to college, cause I was going to be a pilot and I was a pilot.

And in fact, I, that was another job.

One of my first jobs was washing airplanes and mowing the lawn around the, around the, airport.

Um, but, uh, yeah, uh, college, some of the tests that you had to take, you know, like, your instrument ratings and your commercial, ratings for flying.

They were tough.

I think that the trades, I don't know, they're probably similar.

Similar in some of those regards.

They weren't easy and you had to study.

At least I did.

I wasn't smart enough to just sit there and take the test, right?

I'm not that smart.

Unless you're going to be a doctor, there's not many other trades that take eight years of education either.

Exactly.

I mean, there's that.

And some of the training is good, but I do get disappointed sometimes.

guys that have been in the trade for four years and if they're not going to a shop that's actually training them, which we really try hard to do here at Nice Electric, we want, I

tell my guys, any apprentice that I hire, my goal is to make them the best electrician that I can.

I don't want them just...

digging the ditch or pulling wire when the journeyman doesn't want to do something.

I want the journeyman to actually teach them how to work.

and do the job.

That's important.

And unfortunately, I think the state of Oregon with the way it's set up, it's intended to give them a well-rounded education, but it doesn't always succeed.

Yeah.

But.

So you and Gary said.

down, talked about some difficulties of you coming to work for him, being related, being friends, getting along well.

What did that look like?

How did things go with the other guys when you started?

Well, I'll be honest, it was a little rough.

Cause I went from being the boss to being the grunt, the low man on the totem pole.

And also I was related to the boss and the culture at Nice Electric at the time didn't uh do me any favors.

I would say it that way.

I had to work hard to...

earn the respect of the guys.

you know, I wasn't the narc coming in to work for Harry and keep an eye on them, you know, that type

of thing.

yeah, it over time, some of the people that were here at that time left.

Some of them are still here and great workers, great guys.

So.

So it took a lot of years of working together and learning to trust each other.

But yeah, it's worked out, but it was a little rough at first, for sure.

uh

at what point Did you think you would end up taking over nice electric?

Well, when I started, I was like, there's one thing for sure.

I'm not taking over Nice Electric.

I don't need that headache.

I saw what Gary was going through trying to run a bigger shop.

But at one point in time, Gary got had I had told Gary, I said a year from now I'm going to be doing something different.

I think I had learned from leaving

Rick Haller and the way that went.

But I did not intend to be out in the field the rest of my life.

I just told Gary, said, don't know what that looks like, but I'm just telling you, if you want to have an opportunity to keep me here, I'm going to be doing something different any

year from now.

Whether that's working in the office or whatever, I don't intend to just be a journeyman working out in the field.

So.

we talked a little bit and then he came back to me with an offer to come in and run the office as far as running schedules, helping estimating, uh returning phone calls, that

type of thing.

So that's kind of where it started, but then Gary got real sick.

Gary got cancer and went through a real um tough time.

fact, he got it two times um that he had to have treatment.

The second one, we all knew, he knew, that he may not be coming back.

Because that's not an easy treatment and it's not 100 % that you're going to come home.

But so I hear at the shop, the office manager at that time and myself stepped up to the plate.

ran the business while he was out for a few months.

And so yeah, at what point did I know that I was gonna, I think Gary started having conversations with his boys, he has three boys, and.

Trevor had moved to Indiana.

Quinton was pursuing a different career as a nurse and uh Justin wasn't real interested in running the business.

He had seen

how hard it was on his dad, I think.

And he wanted to be able to be home with his family more than what he could be in business.

having said that, Gary and I started talking and...

he started making me an offer that I could, if I wanted to, buy in.

And having managed it at that point in time, I was kind of in the game.

So it seemed like the natural next step.

em So um yeah, that's kind of what started the process.

And so you said when you first started here, running Nice Electric was the last thing you wanted to do.

Was Nice larger than Lanco at that point in time?

um

in time they were probably pretty similar in size.

Yeah.

Lanko has since grown quite dramatically.

I don't know how many guys, you know, um Philip and Pat and Ryan are running right now, but I'm thinking they're up around 45, the last I had heard, but it might be more than

that.

I'm not sure, but they've been very successful and done a great job.

But yeah, was similar in size to what Lanko was at that point in time.

But my thoughts were to start something more from the ground up.

know, go home, put the tools back on, start my own shop, maybe have a couple guys.

but, um, ultimately it's, it's been a good decision.

Yeah.

You're glad that you took over an established business instead of starting over from scratch.

There's definitely benefits to it.

Definitely benefits to it.

The building's built.

You're not trying to go out and build a new building or figure out where you're to put your shop.

So a lot of the tools, you can buy them from the previous owner as opposed to having to outfit everything.

So there's definitely advantages to that and with nice electric

Howard Nice having started the company in 1946 and then passing it on to Gary.

Gary started working for him in the 70s, early 70s.

Married my sister in mid 70s and started helping his dad run the business.

then his dad stuck around until he was like 82 years old.

So he didn't retire right away.

but for a long time towards the end, he was basically working for Gary or helping Gary run the business.

Yeah.

Was Howard still around when you started?

Yeah.

Yeah, I worked for Howard.

And Gary bought

And, um, basically when I started coming into the office, it wasn't long after that, that Howard, stepped down retired and yeah.

But yeah.

And what did that buyout process look like?

How long did those conversations go on for or how long did that take?

Well, we had a financial advisor,

Corrigan Wickman in town here, Mark Wickman had our 401k and he was starting in the process of helping people.

His dream was to help family businesses transition.

And so we were kind of his guinea pig.

We were the first ones that he really helped the whole way through the process.

And so yeah, we would meet with Mark and talk about...

you know opportunities or challenges or you know do we do

the whole thing or do 25 % 50 %?

So we ended up settling on 25 % buyout.

And, um, so that was the phase one.

So yeah, I mortgaged my house.

had my house paid off at that point in time, but took out a mortgage on my house.

So it was a little spooky.

Um, yeah, that was kind of the start.

of buying in and taking risks again at that time.

like, huh, come on.

But, you know, I tell my wife, maybe I should just go be a ditch digger.

Maybe that's what I should do.

And she's like, well, if you did, pretty soon you'd want to be the supervisor of the ditch diggers.

And then pretty soon you'd go buy a ditch digging business because that's just who you are.

And I think that's probably true.

I just, yeah, couldn't let it go.

That had to be a little bit nerve wracking.

You go from a paid off house and a pretty stable life to uh putting it all on the line a second time.

Yeah.

and by then we had four kids

and, you know, we, again, I was always kind of a penny pincher.

uh You know, we drove cars that were secondhand cars for sure.

We have, they always worked, but you know, they weren't pretty.

um And yeah, I was...

uh

Just, was a big deal, honestly, to start over again.

But, yeah.

What has been the most difficult step in that process of taking over NICE Electric?

When first started, was one of the things we decided to try to do was build a low voltage division.

It was a challenge to say the least.

took longer.

It made sense to me and to Gary at the time we talked about it, that it seemed like a built-in clientele because a lot of people would, you hey, you're building a house.

Do you want a security system or do you want a sound system or

know do you need access control all those things?

so it seemed like a Just a built-in business, but that really had some challenges to it getting it off the ground and getting people to Realize that we had that to offer because

we never did before so there was that ah but

you know, there was a couple of times I thought about quitting it.

I really did.

Um, but we've stuck with it and now my son Dalton.

is running that department.

And you know, this year he's just killing it.

So we're hoping it continues.

And it's actually starting after, you know, eight, 10 years here, whatever it's been that we've been doing that, that.

it's actually making the company some money

so that's the goal right yeah for real yeah yeah

At what point were you most afraid in that transition?

Well, initially, mean, there's a lot of salary that you're responsible for, your family's got, I count how many cars are in the parking lot and I go, yeah, I'm responsible.

Not only those people that drive those cars, but their wives, their kids.

Um, it, um, that was the scariest part and just, um, being responsible for others' livelihoods.

Um, and I can remember.

thinking, when am I gonna get used to this?

Because it took a few years of just stress and, yeah, you can feel it in your shoulders, right?

But no, that was a lot of stress at first.

I would say the first two or three years at least until I got used to, OK, the cash flow's going.

We're going to be OK.

And we're going to be able to keep this ball rolling.

yeah.

Okay.

What is a lesson you wish you would have learned earlier?

Yeah, I thought about that one.

I,

don't know.

I think that...

Possibly just...

Sometimes I wonder if I'm uh too patient when it comes to employees.

There was a few employees that um I wish I would have had them move on sooner than I did.

you know, I usually think, it's going to work out.

It'll be fine.

It'll, it's there, you know, but there is, there was a few times that I should have parted ways with people before I did.

I would say that, you know.

I think that's something that's difficult for every business leader is yeah, it's pretty evident you really care about your people and you want what's best for them and I think

sometimes we tend to care more about them than they care about themselves.

Yeah,

I guess that could be true.

just think that yeah, there's just always sometimes a challenge that you think it's going to be a fit, you can't figure out why it's not a fit.

but it's just not a fit.

you just got to, sometimes you just, for me, I just like, okay, admit to yourself that it's not a fit and move

on.

Is there something that you've changed your opinion about throughout the process?

A viewpoint that you held pretty firmly at one point in time and have changed your mind on?

Yeah.

I, when I first started in Nice Electric, I thought, okay, we're just gonna, we're just one big happy team.

You know, I wanted it to be more of a team feeling and whatnot.

I still value those thoughts as far as guys buying into being here.

And when, and I think we've proven over the years that they do, by the longevity of the employees that we have.

But.

it's not exactly like a team in that you still need a leader and you still need somebody to say this is how it's gonna go.

We can't all have a vote.

Somebody's gotta say this is how it's gonna be done.

And so that's one thing I learned.

I, I had this, you know, warm fuzzy feeling that, it's just going to be a team and we're all just going to be buddies.

And yeah, sometimes you got to be the boss.

and sometimes you got to just say how it's going to be and move on.

Yeah.

I think that's good advice for a lot of young leaders.

Yeah, had a similar experience and have heard that from a lot of my middle managers as well as they start out dreaming of the day that they have a team where everybody just

works together.

They all just show up and do what they're supposed to do the way they're supposed to do it.

And it never

happens.

Somebody's got to provide some direction.

Yeah.

It doesn't, you know, even though, I mean, I guess it doesn't really matter what you're doing and somebody's got to make a choice, you know.

How many times have you been gonna go out to eat and everybody's like, well, I don't care.

I don't care.

Somebody's gotta make the decision and we gotta move on.

What is a major mistake that you wish you could have avoided?

I think going back to that, who's on your team.

You think you've got the right people in place.

And when you realize you don't have the right people in place, you're doing people a disservice by keeping on just hoping that it's going to work.

I have learned even with some of the apprentices, over time at, you know, I don't like

to give them a chance.

know, guys don't know what they don't know.

And when you're starting out in a trade, there's so much you don't know.

But at some point, you gotta go, I don't think this is gonna be your job.

Maybe somewhere else, maybe they can teach you better.

But for me, for Nice Electric, I'm doing them a disservice by just continually hoping.

they'll get it.

They'll get it.

And you know, you're three years in and they're not getting it.

And they wasted three years of their lives when they should have been going back to school and being an accountant, you know?

Yeah.

So I think you do.

Yeah, that's a mistake that I've made, I think, the years, not being.

quick enough to say, hey, is this really for you?

Yeah.

That's some really good advice for young leaders, think.

Yeah, I've made that same mistake a lot.

You think you're doing them a favor, giving them a chance, but there's a point where they're just not going to get it or they're not the right fit.

Yeah.

oh

Have you ever made a beneficial mistake?

Something that was a mistake at the time, but in the long run, maybe turned out to be a

win or taught you a valuable lesson?

Well, I guess, I mean, I don't know if it's really a mistake, but moving to Oregon a choice.

And there was lots of times when I thought that, oh man, did I make the right choice?

I mean, all my friends are still in Pennsylvania and I'm struggling working here at Nice Electric with guys that don't respect me and what's that going to look like?

But in the end,

it's turned out to be a good move.

I had an years ago when I started here.

He goes, why do you work so hard?

Why are you always, you know, working all, you know, trying to...

know if you'd say outdo everybody, but you know, trying to prove yourself.

Why are you working so hard?

I said, because when they closed the doors, I want to be the last guy they can get rid of.

I want them to not be able to afford to get rid of me.

That's why I work.

around here.

It's been kind of my motto.

I am.

I guess I'm the last man standing.

I know going back a little bit, you mentioned it was a difficult process kind of earning the respect to the guys that were already here when you started.

ah What was it that turned that corner?

How did you go about earning their respect?

uh Well, one of the lead guys that was working here at the time.

ended up getting fired, from here, which shocked me cause I didn't know there was any problems.

turns out there were some problems that I didn't know about cause I wasn't in the office.

him leaving, and then just over time, proving myself, just being here, being steady and being, being the last man standing and you know,

I think, like to think that my guys all would say that I've earned their respect.

That would be what I hope they would say.

yeah.

If you could go back and start all over, would you choose to do it again?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I know, uh, Gary, when he retired, he, you know, he said, like, I don't think I'd do it again.

It was too much.

Right.

And I think, uh, there's definitely been days that I wish I wouldn't have been doing this, but I, I know what would have happened if I didn't do it here.

I'd do it somewhere else.

Cause that's just kind of my drive and.

I said, I'd be a ditch digger, and then I'd own a ditch digging company.

Because I just, I don't know how else to do it.

Yeah?

But yeah, I it's been great.

Good.

What has been your biggest win as a leader?

My biggest win right now is the crew that I have.

Honestly, I have my son Dalton and it's, I'm privileged to have him work with me here in the office.

And he's just killing it and doing a great job.

Jason Gephardt works for us and awesome decision by me.

You know, I'll take the credit cause but he's an excellent.

co-worker.

I can't say enough about the hard work that those two guys do.

We've made some moves in the office and Glenda's our bookkeeper and she's doing a good job.

I mean always there's always challenges when you're working with people but Overall the team that I've assembled I look back at the team that I had when I started to the team

that I have now

It's like night and day.

It's amazing.

It's great.

I mean, part of it, I think it's just the blessing of the good Lord just looking out for me because I say it's me, but it really isn't.

It's, you know, it's obviously it's decisions that I've made, but I jokingly say that because, you know, it is my company.

at the same time, these guys and Glenda and even all my journeymen that I have, the team.

around us that, does everybody just love being here?

I wouldn't say that, because it's a job, right?

But I've had several of them say it's best job I ever had.

So that says something, I think.

I'll take that as a yes.

That's great.

What has been your best resource to grow?

Well, yeah,

other people, other people.

I mean, I learned so much over the years working with Gary.

um He was just a gentle soul, still is great guy.

You know, he just.

ah I don't know anybody that has anything bad to say about Gary.

um He just, you know, he's my brother-in-law, but he's also one of my really good friends.

So, hanging out with him over the years.

uh

I would say the same thing and working with Glenn, I've had two partnerships.

People say, don't be a partner.

I've had two of them and they both were excellent decisions.

um I've been very blessed that way.

But just hanging out with other good people um and just learning from them, you know, whether that's, you know, use my son-in-law or my sons.

Yeah, just learning from other people is mostly how I do

I'm not a big reader, my wife is.

She reads a lot.

But I usually fall asleep when I read, so I can't read.

But mostly just learning from others.

Yeah.

And yeah, I've kind of always sat on the other side of that.

I've not been a big fan of partnerships.

What do you think have been the secrets to being successful in the partnerships you've had?

Well, guess...

part of, for me, part of it was just being a little bit anal about being fair and honest.

And, you know, cause when I, when we had our partnership, Gary and I, had our personal gas money and our business gas.

And if I use the truck to go to the beach for the evening with my wife,

I would keep track of my mileage and I would put that much gas in the truck.

You I just was trying to be very fair.

and just making sure that the other person is being respected.

And, I don't know exactly what it was about both of those partnerships.

I think part of it, both of us, both were not only either relatives, but we're good friends.

Um, I also think like with Gary, we didn't do a lot outside of the business.

We work together.

We saw each other at Thanksgiving or whatever for family gatherings, but.

we didn't go to the beach together.

Our families didn't do stuff together.

So I think having some separation, but yet respect.

And that was a big one too, respecting each other and our different spots.

Yeah.

I'm not sure exactly what the magic was, but it worked twice.

So I'll take it.

It sounds like you picked the right people both times that had that mutual respect and fairness.

I think that's true and I also think that

the, you know, just your faith, we both had came from the same kind of background.

Say what you will about growing up, you know, Mennonite or, you know, that we both kind of knew the mindset of that.

And it's a different mindset.

It's hard working and it's a

faith and honesty and all the things that, you know, if you can't trust your partner in business,

it's not like being it's not exactly like being married but it is kind of it is kind of you got to respect each other and you got to trust each other and you got to communicate

well I guess it is like a marriage

yeah so yeah it fortunately worked out two times for me so yeah

What motivates you to keep pushing when things get hard?

Well,

you know...

Somebody's gotta do it.

And if you don't show up and do it, when you're the boss or you're the owner, who's gonna do it, right?

So there's kind of that.

You just gotta, I jokingly say to my wife quite often, well it's time to go, you know, after we've had coffee around the table in the morning or whatever, it's time to go to

work.

I'm like, well it's time to go conquer the world.

Here we go.

You know, that's kind of my attitude is just.

gotta go out there and give it your best shot.

And you know you got things to deal with, let's go deal with them.

And when we're done dealing with those, then we can move on.

Whether they're hard or easy or whatever.

ah Just can do attitude and never give up.

Don't stop.

em

Comes back to, think, one of those things.

you and all your siblings share in common is you don't shy away from hard things.

You go right into it.

Yeah, I guess that's true.

Yeah.

All right, well this is my uh favorite question we ask everybody.

We've shared that you're a follower of Jesus, so how has that shaped your business journey or your leadership journey?

Well, I think a

large percentage is...

is how I want my guys to be treated.

I always say when I'm interviewing someone that I want to be treated.

like I treat you and I intend to treat you with respect, with integrity.

So whether that's with a customer or with my employees.

I also think that just having a positive attitude for and a smile on your face sometimes showing up somewhere that...

they enjoy having you around.

Over the years, think I've gotten better at that.

There was a few times in my journey that I was under the gun so much I didn't really enjoy the process.

uh part of sharing the love of Jesus is just showing people that you care.

And even showing up to a customer and saying, isn't it a great day today?

Isn't it awesome?

And they're like.

I guess so, you know, but you know, just a positive attitude and trying to cheer somebody's day.

I think it's important and treating people with respect is very important, very important.

But yeah, that's I would say those are the biggest things that it's affected.

Yeah.

So what's coming up next?

Well...

The next turn of the corner, I just turned 62.

So, um you know, starting to think about transitioning.

You know, they say the cemetery is full of a lot of people that thought they were indispensable, you know.

And so nobody's gonna live forever and nobody's gonna, nobody can't be replaced.

And so what does that look like, you know?

trying to set up things again that ah Set up nice electric for success ah My family for success So you we're working on those things.

I mean obviously on a personal level having Wheels and trusts in place and things like that plans made What do you want to happen in the next?

journeys of life so people know?

uh

with your family and things like that is very important.

Okay.

You mentioned what's best for Nice Electric to keep coming.

just occurred to me.

Do you feel any weight running a business that was established in the 40s and uh being responsible for that legacy?

Yeah, a little bit.

A little bit.

Yeah, actually quite a bit.

I got a text from my brother-in-law just the other day and he talked about how he valued working with me and how he was...

to use the word proud, but happy with the way that I successfully ran the business.

And he said that he thought his dad would be proud too.

And I, wow, that's a big deal.

That's a big deal to me, you know, cause um they put, know Howard for years put in a lot of time and with little reward, you know, almost

losing the company or having to be on payments with suppliers and things like that because times were tough He went through a few patches of that but ultimately He built a reputable

name well known in the community ah So yeah, I hope I have done a decent job keeping that name and ah the reputation that I selected oh

Yeah.

you're right.

It's a thing.

80 years of history.

That's a lot in this community.

Is there anybody that you'd like to see on the show?

Somebody that has an interesting story, an interesting business, or maybe works in a really unique industry that would be fun to learn about?

Yeah.

Well, we talked about a little bit before we got on here, but, you know, Ben Van Dyke, Ben, I think you ought to do it.

I'd like to hear your story.

So I know he's busy man, and he kind of sits behind the scenes.

He's kind of a behind-the-scenes kind of guy, but...

um

the years, I've really learned to respect Ben and his family and his values.

yeah, I think he would be fun to listen to for an hour or so.

Yeah.

I agree.

All right, our last question to either fuel or settle the debate.

If you have to pick a cordless tool brand, which one do you prefer?

We're a Milwaukee around here.

Yeah we've went through several different brands and phases and thoughts and processes but ah you know when I started in the trade there there were no cordless drills so and then I

don't know if you've ever heard of it but there is a screwdriver called the Yankee ah it was a like a ratchet uh you push on it and it would turn the turn yeah

For years I had one of those and we thought we were the cats meow because we had a Yankee screwdriver

to put the plugs in the wall.

And then when I moved here, I still had my Yankee screwdriver in 1991 when we moved here or 96.

Anyways, and so people were like, oh, you gotta try the cordless.

I'm like, no, I'm just as fast.

Well, those days are gone.

But yeah, they've totally changed the industry, that's for sure.

Yeah, well I think with that Milwaukee might be edging out DeWalt again.

They took an early lead and DeWalt caught up and now they might be edging us out again.

Well thank you so much for taking the time and joining me here.

It's been fun and I got to learn a little bit and hopefully our listeners did as well.

Yeah.

And thank you guys for joining us here on From the Ground Up Show.

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